Trump: Our New President

[MoreCoffee]

A lesson in undemocratic vote values

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k

 

[MarkFL]

A lesson in undemocratic vote values...

Yes, that's what happens when lawyers try to do math. :confused2:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, that's what happens when lawyers try to do math. :confused2:

As a lovely elderly Australian lady of Irish descent in my parish says shoot the lot of them!

 

[MarkFL]

As a lovely elderly Australian lady of Irish descent in my parish says shoot the lot of them!

Ah...the wisdom of the elderly. This is an underrated resource.

 

[Josiah]

Donald Trump is not president yet, he is only president elect. And even that is against the expressed voting wishes of more than 1/2 of the people who voted.

Your queen is yet the queen.... but without even one vote of anyone. Hum.

And how many Australians directly voted for the Prime Minister of Australia?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Your queen is yet the queen.... but without even one vote of anyone. Hum.

And how many Australians directly voted for the Prime Minister of Australia?

Check the facts Josiah. I bet you can find out if you want to

 

[tango]

Why is it absurd to make one vote have one value for the whole nation?

Because to create a situation where one city can outvote eight states makes little sense. To create a situation where the population of eight states can only have the rights graciously permitted by the population of one city is little more than a tyranny.

Ultimately if the government shrinks to a point it isn't involved in quite so much it will make less of a difference who is in charge, which in turn will reduce lobbying and corruption.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Because to create a situation where one city can outvote eight states makes little sense. To create a situation where the population of eight states can only have the rights graciously permitted by the population of one city is little more than a tyranny.

Ultimately if the government shrinks to a point it isn't involved in quite so much it will make less of a difference who is in charge, which in turn will reduce lobbying and corruption.

Why should states with less than a million people have votes worth more than 5 times the value of votes in California?

 

[tango]

One is elected by people not by land area. Hillary Clinton has almost 600,000 more votes than Donald Trump. He lost. The election is rigged! He always said it was rigged. He didn't tell anybody that his side rigged it so he would be called winner even though he lost.

You keep banging this drum. Why should the answer be anything other than more local government so you don't end up with a situation where you've effectively got two totally different cultures sharing one national border, each vying for supremacy over the other? If you want one set of laws for your city have at it, just don't expect the country to adopt them. If you want more freedoms in the country have at it, just expect to have a few more rules when you get into the city.

To expect one set of laws to work for the city and the countryside is absurd when lifestyles are so very different. As things stand now if you're a Republican in California or a Democrat in Mississippi you might as well not bother voting. A change to the popular vote would mean that if you live in Montana the chances are you might as well not bother voting. Presidential candidates could be expected to visit major cities and not do much else. It would hand a huge advantage to the Democrat candidate because all they would need to do would be to show up and rally the troops in NYC, DC, LA, Miami etc, while the Republican candidate who wanted to rally the troops would have to visit towns and cities across the entire country, knowing that the chances of them getting much traction in traditionally Democrat urban areas is minimal.

Since there doesn't appear to be any system that doesn't create a collection of problems, why not do away with the problem and scale back the government? Send more power back to the states so that New England and the west coast can introduce more liberal regimes and the mid west can introduce more conservative regimes. That truly gives power to the people, rather than finding that whole swathes of the mid-west are stuck with a president they didn't want for the simple reason that a bunch more people moved into the cities and voted the other way.

 

[tango]

Why should states with less than a million people have votes worth more than 5 times the value of votes in California?

How would you overcome the problem of the tyranny of the majority? Let's forget about going back and forth with this same question, and figure how you'd overcome a situation where 49% can only do what 51% think they should be able to do? Whether that relates to owning a gun, marrying someone of the same sex, drinking alcohol or whatever else, why should 51% be allowed to tell 49% what they can and cannot do?

 

[MoreCoffee]

How would you overcome the problem of the tyranny of the majority? Let's forget about going back and forth with this same question, and figure how you'd overcome a situation where 49% can only do what 51% think they should be able to do? Whether that relates to owning a gun, marrying someone of the same sex, drinking alcohol or whatever else, why should 51% be allowed to tell 49% what they can and cannot do?

Why do you call it tyranny when it's a majority and nobody is passing laws to punish Alaska? It gets subsidised by the "lower 48".

 

[Lamb]

The US isn't a full Democracy but a Representative Republic. Our states are like their own little country. That's why we are the United States of America.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The USA is not free. It's got crooked rigged elections!

 

[Lamb]

Yes there are some people who try to change the results of an election but not all Americans are crooked.

 

[psalms 91]

MC you do go on about our elections in many threads and you are not even from the USA. While I disagree with the elctorial college and our system isnnt perfect it is still the best one out there. Now that the election is over we have a new president and we should all pray for him, not riot

 

[MoreCoffee]

MC you do go on about our elections in many threads and you are not even from the USA. While I disagree with the elctorial college and our system isnnt perfect it is still the best one out there. Now that the election is over we have a new president and we should all pray for him, not riot

It's far from the best. Most of Western Europe uses proportional representation - that's fair. Australia uses preferential voting and that is close to as fair as proportional representation. Electoral boundaries in Australia are drawn by independent commissions with the stated intention that electorates ought to be the same size (in population) and as close to evenly divided between supporters of the various parties as can reasonably be done. The USA allows corrupt state governors gerrymander the electorates. And the electoral college is corruptly unbalanced. It's not a democracy. It's corrupt.

No riots. Just non-violent civil disobedience until crooked Donald is impeached :smirk:

 

[Rens]

It's far from the best. Most of Western Europe uses proportional representation - that's fair. Australia uses preferential voting and that is close to as fair as proportional representation. Electoral boundaries in Australia are drawn by independent commissions with the stated intention that electorates ought to be the same size (in population) and as close to evenly divided between supporters of the various parties as can reasonably be done. The USA allows corrupt state governors gerrymander the electorates. And the electoral college is corruptly unbalanced. It's not a democracy. It's corrupt.

No riots. Just non-violent civil disobedience until crooked Donald is impeached :smirk:

Australia is one country. Suppose we had to pick one president together with all of Europe and Russia. We would have nothing to say if they counted the votes and we'd get Putin cause they have the biggest country. Even with Europe, we have absolutely nothing to say. If you don't want that then just have your tiny democratic country and nothing to say in the world.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Australia is one country. Suppose we had to pick one president together with all of Europe and Russia. We would have nothing to say if they counted the votes and we'd get Putin cause they have the biggest country. Even with Europe, we have absolutely nothing to say. If you don't want that then all have your tiny democratic country and nothing to say in the world.

The USA is one country, isn't it?

 

[Rens]

The USA is one country, isn't it?

A rather big one. A guy who explained it said: you should see it as a lot of countries. Then it makes sense.

 

[MoreCoffee]

A rather big one. A guy who explained it said: you should see it as a lot of countries. Then it makes sense.

India is one country and it manages to have reasonably democratic elections without any built in gerrymandering.