Evangelical Only Tongues .valid in varying forms. A wider view.

[Rens]

Good advice.


It says that the Holy Spirit distributes gifts among INDIVIDUALS as the Spirit wills for the profit of all (all of the saints).


1 Corinthians 12:27-31 [NKJV]
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

The implied answer is no. (Unless you claim to be a miracle-working prophetic apostle right along with the gift of universal tongues.)


1 Corinthians 13:1 [NKJV] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

Here we see the importance of love. To call into question the faith, maturity or (Jesus forbid) salvation of an individual based on a Gift of Tongues that Paul clearly teaches is NOT given to all and is dispensed by the Holy Spirit according to His purpose and will is not an act of love. I am not opposed to the gift of tongues, I am opposed to the gift of tongues being misused as a weapon or instrument of human pride.


1 Corinthians 14:1-5 [NKJV]
1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

I am certain that you would not want me to miss that "he who speaks in a tongue ... in the spirit ... speaks mysteries" or that Paul wishes "you all spoke with tongues", and indeed, I have not. I too wish all spoke in tongues in their spirit and prayed to God in a language between them and God free from the limitations of human words and our confused thoughts. For those of us who do not, please accept that "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans." [Romans 8:26]

What I would have you note is that even more than speaking in Tongues, Paul wishes that God's people would focus less on "edifies himself" and more on "edifies the church".
Paul even repeats it in 1 Corinthians 14:12 [NKJV] "Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel."


1 Corinthians 14:22-25
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. 25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

I argue vehemently with cessationists that the gift of tongues continues and this passage is exactly why. Tongues is indeed for unbelievers and the word of God is for believers. The 'mystery' of those crazy Charismatics and their joy and faith is what convinced me to consider the possibility that God might exist. However, it is Jesus Christ that saves and the Holy Spirit working from within that transforms. Tongues are not a yardstick to measure faith or growth. (for the record, neither is teaching theology). They are all just a gift. Given to an individual to edify the body (that means to pick up your brother and sister in Christ).


1 Corinthians 14:26-28 [NKJV]
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Why is it that I almost never hear anyone pointing out these verses? Why is verse 28 in particular so frequently ignored? So let's close with two verses that belong together rather than apart:


1 Corinthians 14:39-40 [NKJV]
39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

It is important not to forbid speaking in tongues, but that is not the same as demanding that all speak in tongues (which Paul says is not under our control) and all things must be done decently and in order. That means to build up and not tear down and in love rather than pride.

[@Brighten04 may not want to argue, which is agreeable to me, but I wanted you to know that I have studied what Paul says about spiritual gifts, including tongues.]

Yes but you should strive for all the gifts. There's the gift of tongues and tongues as a prayer language. It's different things.
Some get the gift of faith, that's supernatural faith from God, so even if you don't really believe it, an instant miracle can occur, but that's something else than that everyone has been given the gift of faith and the measure of faith.
Jude 20 says you should build up your spirit by praying in the Spirit.
Ephesians 6

Pray in the Spirit at all times, with every kind of prayer and petition.

 

[atpollard]

Yes but you should strive for all the gifts.

Where does God say that?
This is not a challenge, I honestly know of no place where scripture teaches what you are saying. I have already posted clear references that the Holy Spirit distributes gifts as He wills, so like salvation, human striving seems inappropriate to obtain that which God gives by His sovereign grace. These are the only 'strive' that I am aware of:

Acts 24:16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brothers and sisters, rejoice! Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
1 Thessalonians 5:15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.
1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

There's the gift of tongues and tongues as a prayer language. It's different things.

You are going to have to make up your mind here. You can't claim that it is the Gift of Tongues and everyone should seek (and obtain) the Gift of Tongues ... and then say that you really mean 'tongues as a prayer language' which is a different thing. So which is it that everyone should have?

Please understand, I am not attacking you. Scripture says that the Prophets are to judge the Prophets. I do not speak in tongues, so I am unqualified to answer questions on tongues or judge those who claim to exercise the gift of tongues. It is YOU who have the gift of tongues who must stand in judgment of the gift of tongues. However, I am like the Berean Jews, searching scripture to see if it says what anyone claims it says. I hold teachers and prophets accountable to the word of God. No more and no less.

Some get the gift of faith, that's supernatural faith from God, so even if you don't really believe it, an instant miracle can occur, but that's something else than that everyone has been given the gift of faith and the measure of faith.

Yes. I agree. I am not sure I would have worded it that the gift of Faith is the ability to have a miracle occur even if you don't believe, but I understand what you mean and agree. There are some things that all believers are given and called to, even though some believers have a special gifting in that area. I may not be a Billy Graham, but all are called to evangelize. I may not be a 'prayer warrior', but all are called to pray.

Jude 20 says you should build up your spirit by praying in the Spirit.

Ephesians 6
Pray in the Spirit at all times, with every kind of prayer and petition.

Jude 20 (in context)
17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

I am not sure that 'praying in the Holy Spirit' in the context of defending the Church against false teachers constitutes 'tongues'. However, even granting that it does, how does your praying in tongues help the church to defend against all of the attacks that Jude warns of? How is your tongues aiding your brothers and building up the body?


Ephesians 6:18 (in context)
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

Note carefully that the whole section is about fighting against evil. In verse 17 Paul commands you to "Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit" ... so the Spirit is your sword in this fight ... then he goes on to clarify that this sword of the Spirit that you have taken up is "the word of God". Now comes "And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests." So the purpose of this prayer is spiritual battle and the Spirit with which you are praying is your sword of battle ... the word of God. This is a call to pray all sorts of scriptures to defeat all sorts of spiritual enemies. This has nothing to do with 'tongues' and everything to do with Scripture and Jesus (the Word made Flesh).

 

[Rens]

You just pray in tongues to build yourself up and your brothers and also praying the Word. Sometimes you don't know what to pray. I can pray Bible texts but that's about it. Most of the time I'm ready in 5 mins. So I suppose if Paul says pray all the time in the Spirit it must be in tongues. You must pray with your spirit and with your mind.

 

[Brighten04]

Yes but you should strive for all the gifts.

Yes this is true, For it is written

1 Cor.14:1 Eagerly pursue and seek to acquire [this] love [make it your aim, your great quest]; and earnestly desire and cultivate the spiritual endowments (gifts), especially that you may prophesy ([a]interpret the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching).AMPC

1Cor. 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.KJV

So continue to seek after spiritual gifts sister.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Ask! But ask in faith, believing you receive when you pray.

 

[atpollard]

So continue to seek after spiritual gifts sister.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Ask! But ask in faith, believing you receive when you pray.

Be careful WHY you are asking ...

John 14:10-14 [NIV]
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

... it is to glorify the Father in the Son (not to glorify us).

 

[Wilhemena]

I personally do not see how seeking gifts of the Holy Spirit is on the same equivalent as saying seek all the gifts he has to give because he has certain plans for our lives and specific gifts to give to us to carry out those plans. I also do not understand how speaking in tongues would be a sign that one is a true believer since the old covenant of the bible did not have it at all for those who were God's children and followers.

 

[user1234]

Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good, and His lovingkindness abounds!
( Just heard that and thought I'd throw it in there \o/ )
God bless you all today!

 

[Sword7]

Good advice.


It says that the Holy Spirit distributes gifts among INDIVIDUALS as the Spirit wills for the profit of all (all of the saints).


1 Corinthians 12:27-31 [NKJV]
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

The implied answer is no. (Unless you claim to be a miracle-working prophetic apostle right along with the gift of universal tongues.)


1 Corinthians 13:1 [NKJV] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

Here we see the importance of love. To call into question the faith, maturity or (Jesus forbid) salvation of an individual based on a Gift of Tongues that Paul clearly teaches is NOT given to all and is dispensed by the Holy Spirit according to His purpose and will is not an act of love. I am not opposed to the gift of tongues, I am opposed to the gift of tongues being misused as a weapon or instrument of human pride.


1 Corinthians 14:1-5 [NKJV]
1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

I am certain that you would not want me to miss that "he who speaks in a tongue ... in the spirit ... speaks mysteries" or that Paul wishes "you all spoke with tongues", and indeed, I have not. I too wish all spoke in tongues in their spirit and prayed to God in a language between them and God free from the limitations of human words and our confused thoughts. For those of us who do not, please accept that "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans." [Romans 8:26]

What I would have you note is that even more than speaking in Tongues, Paul wishes that God's people would focus less on "edifies himself" and more on "edifies the church".
Paul even repeats it in 1 Corinthians 14:12 [NKJV] "Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel."


1 Corinthians 14:22-25
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. 25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

I argue vehemently with cessationists that the gift of tongues continues and this passage is exactly why. Tongues is indeed for unbelievers and the word of God is for believers. The 'mystery' of those crazy Charismatics and their joy and faith is what convinced me to consider the possibility that God might exist. However, it is Jesus Christ that saves and the Holy Spirit working from within that transforms. Tongues are not a yardstick to measure faith or growth. (for the record, neither is teaching theology). They are all just a gift. Given to an individual to edify the body (that means to pick up your brother and sister in Christ).


1 Corinthians 14:26-28 [NKJV]
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Why is it that I almost never hear anyone pointing out these verses? Why is verse 28 in particular so frequently ignored? So let's close with two verses that belong together rather than apart:


1 Corinthians 14:39-40 [NKJV]
39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

It is important not to forbid speaking in tongues, but that is not the same as demanding that all speak in tongues (which Paul says is not under our control) and all things must be done decently and in order. That means to build up and not tear down and in love rather than pride.

[@Brighten04 may not want to argue, which is agreeable to me, but I wanted you to know that I have studied what Paul says about spiritual gifts, including tongues.]

A great post.
I'm assuming from your testimony earlier that you don't speak in tongues?
- also in a former post you mentioned the importance of context.
In the above verses of your post ;do you think you have omitted the context ? Being that Paul expressly mentions a context of being gathered together.
And it is within this context that the abilities are given out for the edifying of the body.
Which means that the implications of that congragational setting he is speaking of,cannot be imposed as a one size fits all over a non congragational setting.

Also in the context of all other promises God makes are these words true?
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. " -?

And these .."desire earnestly All the gifts of the spirit..."

And other promises of not withholding any good thing etc.

-it's a side topic.but,We find that one of the greatest hindrances to receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost (evidenced by tongues) is the motive of the heart being incorrect ,or, a fully incorrect perception they have either been taught or picked along the way.Of what it means and is to be "baptised in the Holy spirit"

One lady that had experienced deliverance,having obviously manifested a demo and had it cast out,wanted the baptism of the Holy Spirit.we prayed for her and ...nothing! It was like a stone wall.
After quite some time of prayer we conversed with her and in the course of the conversation these words were spoken by her. "I just want to be able to do what you guys can do" - (she was referring to driving out demons) this exposed the absolute incorrect Motive of her heart .turns out she did counselling herself as a nominal christian (I believe people paid a fee for the service).and wanted more success in it.
There was no repentance in her heart ,no desire to surrender her life to the will of God to learn it and do it.

Btw-I fully agree tongues is Not a measure of spirituality or maturity ..not a measure at all.
Nor have I demanded that all must do it.
But stated that all who truly have indwelling them the Holy spirit,do ,by that Same holy spirit,have access to All the abilities of said Holy Spirit for the edifying And equipping of the whole body.

 

[Sword7]

I personally do not see how seeking gifts of the Holy Spirit is on the same equivalent as saying seek all the gifts he has to give because he has certain plans for our lives and specific gifts to give to us to carry out those plans. I also do not understand how speaking in tongues would be a sign that one is a true believer since the old covenant of the bible did not have it at all for those who were God's children and followers.

I don't think any one has stated that tongues is a sign of a true believer.
Only that it is an evidence that a person is "FILLED" with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Wilhemena]

I don't think any one has stated that tongues is a sign of a true believer.
Only that it is an evidence that a person is "FILLED" with the Holy Spirit.

It is not the only evidence that a believer is filled with the Holy Spirit as some churches would have us believe.

 

[JSales]

It is not the only evidence that a believer is filled with the Holy Spirit as some churches would have us believe.

That's the kind of thing that will keep me away from a church more than anything else is when they insist that you gotta do this or that or you ain't a true Christian. No way bro.