The undisclosed age of “X”

Albion

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LOL, You and Josiah simply lie with a bold face..
More or less what I might expect from someone who has nothing to offer in support of his religious theory and has been called on it. It's not as though you weren't given every opportunity to produce something.
 

MennoSota

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More or less what I might expect from someone who has nothing to offer in support of his religious theory and has been called on it. It's not as though you weren't given every opportunity to produce something.
Albion, do you dare to read all the verses on baptism and then get back to me? If you won't do so, then don't make your laziness my problem.
Keyword Baptism: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Baptism&qs_version=ESV
Keyword Baptize: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Baptize&qs_version=ESV
 

Josiah

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LOL, You and Josiah simply lie with a bold face. Pick all the verses on Christian baptism found in the Bible and you will see the same pattern. Person's believe, then they are baptized.


1. You already proved the claim of this thread to be wrong
. We're done.


2. No. Your claim is false. You have NOT shown that in every baptism that just happens to be recorded in the NT, the person FIRST in chronological time attained the required age, then after that in chronological time proved that they had chosen Jesus as their personal Savior, then in chronological time, where baptized by full and total immersion. No, you have NOT shown your claim to have any truth to it. If there is a "bold face lie" friend, well...... We've asked you FOR MONTHS to substantiate your claim as having an ounce of truth in it by showing it in 1 Corinthians 1:16, Acts 16:33 and Acts 16:15. But you ignore any attempt to show your point is true - and we all know why.


3. Your whole point is silly.
Your entire apologetic is founded on something YOU YOURSELF hold is wrong. Something jibing with falsehood does not make it correct (how silly of you). Do YOU hold that we can only do what is illustrated as done in the NT? No (your posting on the internet is just one example of your rejection of your entire point). Do YOU hold that we are forbidden to do what is not illustrated in the Bible? No. Since you yourself hold that your premise is wrong, absurd, and not to be followed, it's absurd for you to place your apologetic on it.




.
 

MoreCoffee

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Albion, do you dare to read all the verses on baptism and then get back to me?
Albion probably has read all the verses on baptism. I know that I have. It comes with reading all the verses in the bible.

 

MennoSota

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Albion probably has read all the verses on baptism. I know that I have. It comes with reading all the verses in the bible.
Good, then you know that paedobaptism does not exist in the Bible while every instance of baptism is with a confessing believer.
Yet, none of you will let go of your churches unsupported dogma.
Folks, some church traditions need to be exorcised and paedobaptism is one of them.
 

Josiah

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Josiah said:
MennoSota said:
You and Josiah simply lie with a bold face. Pick all the verses on Christian baptism found in the Bible and you will see the same pattern. Person's believe, then they are baptized.


1. You yourself already proved the claim of this thread to be wrong. We're done.


2. Your claim is false. You have NOT shown that in every baptism that just happens to be recorded in the NT, the person FIRST in chronological time attained the required age, then after that in chronological time proved that they had chosen Jesus as their personal Savior, then in chronological time, where baptized by full and total immersion. No, you have NOT shown your claim to have any truth to it. If there is a "bold face lie" friend, well...... We've asked you FOR MONTHS to substantiate your claim as having an ounce of truth in it by showing it in 1 Corinthians 1:16, Acts 16:33 and Acts 16:15. But you ignore any attempt to show your point is true - and we all know why.


3. Your whole point is silly. Your entire apologetic is founded on something YOU YOURSELF hold is wrong. Something jibing with falsehood does not make it correct (how silly of you). Do YOU hold that we can only do what is illustrated as done in the NT? No (your posting on the internet is just one example of your rejection of your entire point). Do YOU hold that we are forbidden to do what is not illustrated in the Bible? No. Since you yourself hold that your premise is wrong, absurd, and not to be followed, it's absurd for you to place your apologetic on it.



.


paedobaptism does not exist in the Bible


Nor does posting on the internet.

Nor do women pastors, youth pastors, youth groups, women's groups.

Nor does a Gentile administering baptism.

Nor do baptism tanks behind a curtain.

Nor does passing around (rarely) trays of little plastic cups with a bit of Welch's Grape Juice in 'em and a bowl of little cup up pieces of Weber's White Bread

Nor does giving communion to women or children

Nor does churches having websites

Nor does baptizing Japanese or Native American or Germans or Blonde-haired people.



IF you actually thought your premise true, you wouldn't be posting on the 'net, would you? And probably 90% plus of what your church does on a Sunday morning you would dogmatically forbid. But you don't accept your own point. You think it's wrong and silly and absurd. You don't follow it. BUT you think that if something "fits" with something that's wrong, it must be right. And that's the most incredible part of all.


But your SILLY point - that you YOURSELF reject and don't' follow - doesn't hold. Because you can't show that your claim is correct (note your need to ignore 1 Corinthians 1:16, Acts 16:15, Acts 16:33). And it's even more silly for you to demand that OTHERS follow a premise you reject by insisting, "YOU have to show that every case of Baptism that just happens to be recorded in the Bible is of a Gentile baptizing a blond-haired women or it's forbidden to do that!" That's YOUR silly premise that YOU reject (and can't show is true anyway).



.
 
Last edited:

atpollard

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You said ...
Josiah said:
MennoSota has already proven that the dogma the opening post argues doesn't exist actually does: officially and formally and in Baptist Confessions.

I corrected you ..
Arthur said:
I would point out the small correction that MennoSota posted from a Mennonite Confession and not a Baptist Confession.

To which you respond ...
Your position is not, "The Southern Baptist Convention does not have a formal Confessional statement that speaks of age." You aren't even a Southern Baptist! Your insistence is that there is no age requirement connected to Baptism - period.
Your response is nonsensical. You claimed MennoSota proved your case from a Baptist Confession and I correctly pointed out that MennoSota quoted a Mennonite Confession and not a Baptist Confession. You simply misstated which Confession was quoted from and you now make claims about me based on my pointing out your error.

As to the rest, you apparently missed the part where I explained that I do not enjoy responding to you ... it is never productive.
 

MoreCoffee

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Good, then you know that paedobaptism does not exist in the Bible
Baptism's meaning in the holy scriptures is to wash away sins, die and rise with Christ, be born anew from above, and be saved yet Baptist people call it a public testimony about/to/of their faith while holy scripture never says that is what baptism is or means so why do credobpatists teach so terribly unbiblical a doctrine as that?

while every instance of baptism is with a confessing believer.
Yet, none of you will let go of your churches unsupported dogma.
Folks, some church traditions need to be exorcised and paedobaptism is one of them.
 

Josiah

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You claimed MennoSota proved your case from a Baptist Confession[


1. The Mennonite church IS anabaptist/baptist in its teachings on baptism. And the part of the Confessions he quoted stated it was about "baptism." I did not say "the moniker of this denomination has the word "Baptist" in it."


2. Your claim is NOT that "there is no denomination in the USA that has the word "BAPTIST" in its legal moniker that mentions age in relation to baptism." Your claim that that no one holds that age is a factor. MennoSota proved you wrong. Saving all of us the trouble of nothing what all of us (including you) know (come on, friend!) When some say "Infant baptisms are wrong!" that has to do with age since the word "infant" has to do with AGE (and nothing else). No one claimed that the various baptism inventions that these Anabaptists came up with in the late 16th Century were isolated or independent (rarely are dogmas isolated), I said that Anti (against) Paedo (a human under the age of 13 or so; it's very undefined) Baptism is a dogma that exists among those who carry on the Anabaptist inventions. And we all know it's true. IMO, it was absurd of you to even begin this thread when ALL OF US KNOW that those embracing the Anabaptist view of baptism insist on exactly that; as MennoSota proved. He's trying hard to change the subject back to the anabaptist/baptist mantra of "we can't do what is not exampled as done in the Bible" nonsense because even that seems more credible that the OP here. Come on, friend, come on!






.
 

atpollard

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NOBODY IS CLAIMING AN AGE BASED RESTRICTION ON BAPTISM.

So time for an update.

First a brief note of clarification on the word "NOBODY". It was never my intent to speak for the entire population of the planet Earth when I posted that statement. My frame of reference was more humble. I intended to advance the claim that nobody on Christianity Haven was claiming an age based restriction on Baptism. I will attempt to be more precise in the future.

Now for an admission of failure. I know MANY will find this hard to believe, but I am actually able to honestly concede defeat when I am defeated. The Southern Baptists and Church of God confessions clearly indicate that churches which believe those confessions do not have any age based restrictions, but any restrictions on infant baptism are the consequence of some other restriction on Baptism that is applied to people of all ages. While MennoSota has done a wonderful job of explaining the Mennonite position when politely asked about it (thank you MennoSota, I learned a lot about a group of Brothers that I knew little), the fact remains that there is a strong age related element in the Mennonite position.

Let me go on record as stating that the demand for a verse forbidding baptism before the undisclosed age of X is an inappropriate response to the Mennonite position (and for the record, so is the demand for a biblical record of an infant Baptism) as both demands dishonor the actual beliefs of those that hold them and seek only mockery. The "age of accountability" is not about a simple matter of scripture demanding a specific age, that is why they have an approximate common range of ages rather than a specific age, rather, MennoSota has clearly communicated that it is about a deep belief in the purpose of Baptism and people being ready to step into that purpose. Even if we disagree, that should be treated with respect (as should the reason why people choose to baptize their infants).

However, the reality is that I boldly claimed that NOBODY (here) believed in any minimum age, and I was 90% wrong (MennoSota may not agree with how I see it, so it is not 100%) ... so I admit that I was mistaken. There is an element of "age of accountability" that excludes the young in the beliefs of some on CH.
That said, as a Particular Baptist (theologically speaking), I would question the Mennonite Church on where they draw some of their requirements for Baptism and their views on the function that they believe baptism serves.
 

atpollard

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1. The Mennonite church IS anabaptist/baptist in its teachings on baptism. And the part of the Confessions he quoted stated it was about "baptism." I did not say "the moniker of this denomination has the word "Baptist" in it."
Learn some Church History from 1600 forward.
Modern Baptists are not Anabaptists without the "Ana".

Amish, Mennonite and General Baptists have Anabaptist roots (as well as differences).
Particular Baptists do not have Anabaptist roots. (Nor does the Church of God, nor Pentecostals ...)

You keep insisting on using terms interchangeably that are not related ... calling all non-Padeobaptists "Anabaptists" would be like claiming that the RCC, EOC, Lutherans and Presbyterians are all "Catholics" because they all practice Padeobaptism so they must be following the dogma of some "wackadoodle" Pope.
 

MoreCoffee

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[MENTION=334]atpollard[/MENTION]

NOBODY IS CLAIMING AN AGE BASED RESTRICTION ON BAPTISM.

You must know by now that Josiah is not likely to stop saying stuff about age x.
 

atpollard

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[MENTION=334]atpollard[/MENTION]
NOBODY IS CLAIMING AN AGE BASED RESTRICTION ON BAPTISM.

You must know by now that Josiah is not likely to stop saying stuff about age x.
Of course, Josiah reposting content is a given.
What I wonder is if he ever adds anything new.

We should quote and use a celebrate emoji if and when Josiah posts something he has never posted before! :cake:
 

MennoSota

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Baptism's meaning in the holy scriptures is to wash away sins, die and rise with Christ, be born anew from above, and be saved yet Baptist people call it a public testimony about/to/of their faith while holy scripture never says that is what baptism is or means so why do credobpatists teach so terribly unbiblical a doctrine as that?
Baptism means "to immerse." There is no meaning where it is applied to washing away sins. In fact, Peter explicitly tells us that it is not about washing away sins.
1 Peter 3:21-22
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you,
not as a removal of dirt from the body
but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

MC, your assertion about baptism is empty of biblical merit.
 

Albion

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Baptism means "to immerse." .
...and it also means to dip, wash, and a number of similar actions. As usual, you are merely retreading the argument you already tried out and had debunked.
 

MennoSota

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So time for an update.

First a brief note of clarification on the word "NOBODY". It was never my intent to speak for the entire population of the planet Earth when I posted that statement. My frame of reference was more humble. I intended to advance the claim that nobody on Christianity Haven was claiming an age based restriction on Baptism. I will attempt to be more precise in the future.

Now for an admission of failure. I know MANY will find this hard to believe, but I am actually able to honestly concede defeat when I am defeated. The Southern Baptists and Church of God confessions clearly indicate that churches which believe those confessions do not have any age based restrictions, but any restrictions on infant baptism are the consequence of some other restriction on Baptism that is applied to people of all ages. While MennoSota has done a wonderful job of explaining the Mennonite position when politely asked about it (thank you MennoSota, I learned a lot about a group of Brothers that I knew little), the fact remains that there is a strong age related element in the Mennonite position.

Let me go on record as stating that the demand for a verse forbidding baptism before the undisclosed age of X is an inappropriate response to the Mennonite position (and for the record, so is the demand for a biblical record of an infant Baptism) as both demands dishonor the actual beliefs of those that hold them and seek only mockery. The "age of accountability" is not about a simple matter of scripture demanding a specific age, that is why they have an approximate common range of ages rather than a specific age, rather, MennoSota has clearly communicated that it is about a deep belief in the purpose of Baptism and people being ready to step into that purpose. Even if we disagree, that should be treated with respect (as should the reason why people choose to baptize their infants).

However, the reality is that I boldly claimed that NOBODY (here) believed in any minimum age, and I was 90% wrong (MennoSota may not agree with how I see it, so it is not 100%) ... so I admit that I was mistaken. There is an element of "age of accountability" that excludes the young in the beliefs of some on CH.
That said, as a Particular Baptist (theologically speaking), I would question the Mennonite Church on where they draw some of their requirements for Baptism and their views on the function that they believe baptism serves.
Your point about the Mennonite view is fair. There is no biblical support for an age of accountability. Rather, there is support for asking why this person cannot be baptized. The question, in scripture, is asked about the person who has just confessed belief in the atoning work of Christ. Therefore, the Bible established that baptism is given to those who confess belief not to those who are unconfessed sinners.
How later Christians, after the Apostles, got that turned around is not provided to us. But, clearly Reform is needed.
 

MennoSota

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...and it also means to dip, wash, and a number of similar actions. As usual, you are merely retreading the argument you already tried out and had debunked.
To dip is to immerse.
No sprinkling, not just washing.
As usual, you are connected by the umbilical to your denomination dogma rather than scripture.
 

Josiah

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What I wonder is if he ever adds anything new.

Only when other's do. If they keep making the same entirely unsubstantiated point... that they themselves reject.... then there's only two options: keep pointing out they are just parroting the same identical unsubstantiated point they themselves reject, or let it stand as if to approve.


atpollard said:
Josiah said:
The Mennonite church IS anabaptist/baptist in its teachings on baptism. And the part of the Confessions he quoted stated it was about "baptism." I did not say "the moniker of this denomination has the word "Baptist" in it."

Learn some Church History from 1600 forward. Modern Baptists are not Anabaptists without the "Ana".


And of course, I never remotely said they were. I'm speaking of BAPTISM.... and we are addressing a corpus of Dogmas concerning baptism that were invented by the Anabaptists in the late 16th Century. We're discussing a corpus of certain Anabaptist dogmas - that yes, some profess today, some of them belong to denominations that have the word "Baptist" in their legal denominational moniker, some not. But the historical FACT is some today do profess some or all of the corpus of baptismal dogmas that the Anabaptists invented.

I pointed out to you that I was referring to a corpus of dogmas, not to a word that may or may not be found in the legal monikers of denominations. Not sure what point you are trying to make since you surrendered your point anyway (this thread is done).




atpollard said:
Particular Baptists do not have Anabaptist roots.


Quote me where I said they did. We're talking about a corpus of DOGMAS dealing with baptism invented by the Anabaptists in the 16th Century. Ones you have promoted and defended. Of course, a denomination teaching them may or may not have been incorporated by any Anabaptist denomination but I sincerely fail to see what point you are trying to make.


Yes, it is my understanding that the term "Anabaptism" (Re-Baptizers") like the names "Protestant" "Lutheran" "Reformed" "Methodist" and many others, was originally a negative term applied to them by those who renounced them. In some cases, they simply dropped the "ana" because THEY held they were not RE-baptizing anyone but authentically baptizing them for the FIRST time, thus they were comfortable being called "Baptists". FURTHERMORE, spin-offs of the Anabaptists spun off in every which way and often about the only thing they still had in common, and the one thing quite distinctive was their unusual new baptism dogmas, thus "Baptist" well defined them.

But again, I'm missing your point: What does this have to do with the claim that there is no person or church or denomination that regards AGE as restrictive in baptism? A point you largely yielded anyway. What IS your point?




atpollard said:
You keep insisting on using terms interchangeably that are not related ... calling all non-Padeobaptists "Anabaptists" would be like claiming that the RCC, EOC, Lutherans and Presbyterians are all "Catholics" because they all practice Padeobaptism


Of course not.

Again, we are not talking about EVERYTHING the Anabaptists held/hold or even their unique new inventions, ONLY ONE of those inventions has ever come up at CH, their corpus of dogmas concerning baptism. Yes, they invented your views ON BAPTISM (it doesn't mean they invented your views on ice cream, come on).

Roman Catholic doctrine is MORE than not forbidding children to be baptized. Their Catechism ALONE has 2,865 points in it (and that just summerizes a FEW of their doctrines and views). True, Lutherans and Catholics and The Southern Baptist Convention all accept the Trinity and so if that were the ONLY thing we were discussing, it WOULD be appropriate to mention the agreement but not if we're discussing EVERYTHING.

You may be uncomfortable about it, but history tells us the corpus of BAPTISM views (and we've ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY and SOLELY discussed THAT corpus of dogmas on THAT subject) that you promote and evidently your denomination also promotes, comes from the Anabaptists. They invented them. And it seems to me, the apologetic you are using is identical to theirs.



.
 

MennoSota

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Only when other's do. If they keep making the same entirely unsubstantiated point... that they themselves reject.... then there's only two options: keep pointing out they are just parroting the same identical unsubstantiated point they themselves reject, or let it stand as if to approve.





And of course, I never remotely said they were. I'm speaking of BAPTISM.... and we are addressing a corpus of Dogmas concerning baptism that were invented by the Anabaptists in the late 16th Century. We're discussing a corpus of certain Anabaptist dogmas - that yes, some profess today, some of them belong to denominations that have the word "Baptist" in their legal denominational moniker, some not. But the historical FACT is some today do profess some or all of the corpus of baptismal dogmas that the Anabaptists invented.

I pointed out to you that I was referring to a corpus of dogmas, not to a word that may or may not be found in the legal monikers of denominations. Not sure what point you are trying to make since you surrendered your point anyway (this thread is done).







Quote me where I said they did. We're talking about a corpus of DOGMAS dealing with baptism invented by the Anabaptists in the 16th Century. Ones you have promoted and defended. Of course, a denomination teaching them may or may not have been incorporated by any Anabaptist denomination but I sincerely fail to see what point you are trying to make.


Yes, it is my understanding that the term "Anabaptism" (Re-Baptizers") like the names "Protestant" "Lutheran" "Reformed" "Methodist" and many others, was originally a negative term applied to them by those who renounced them. In some cases, they simply dropped the "ana" because THEY held they were not RE-baptizing anyone but authentically baptizing them for the FIRST time, thus they were comfortable being called "Baptists". FURTHERMORE, spin-offs of the Anabaptists spun off in every which way and often about the only thing they still had in common, and the one thing quite distinctive was their unusual new baptism dogmas, thus "Baptist" well defined them.

But again, I'm missing your point: What does this have to do with the claim that there is no person or church or denomination that regards AGE as restrictive in baptism? A point you largely yielded anyway. What IS your point?







Of course not.

Again, we are not talking about EVERYTHING the Anabaptists held/hold or even their unique new inventions, ONLY ONE of those inventions has ever come up at CH, their corpus of dogmas concerning baptism. Yes, they invented your views ON BAPTISM (it doesn't mean they invented your views on ice cream, come on).

Roman Catholic doctrine is MORE than not forbidding children to be baptized. Their Catechism ALONE has 2,865 points in it (and that just summerizes a FEW of their doctrines and views). True, Lutherans and Catholics and The Southern Baptist Convention all accept the Trinity and so if that were the ONLY thing we were discussing, it WOULD be appropriate to mention the agreement but not if we're discussing EVERYTHING.

You may be uncomfortable about it, but history tells us the corpus of BAPTISM views (and we've ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY and SOLELY discussed THAT corpus of dogmas on THAT subject) that you promote and evidently your denomination also promotes, comes from the Anabaptists. They invented them. And it seems to me, the apologetic you are using is identical to theirs.



.
Please acknowledge that the paedobaptism views are inventions of men that are not supported by the early church.
You claim anabaptists invented something not found in scripture. Please make the same claim about those supporting paedobaptism. The evidence is clearly not found in the Bible. It is an invention that came after the Apostles.
 

Josiah

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[MENTION=394]MennoSota[/MENTION]


MennoSota said:
Please acknowledge that the paedobaptism view is not supported by the early church.


The earliest reference we have in all Christian history to Anti-Padeobaptism or Credobaptism comes from the late 16th Century. The dogmas you parrot are late 16th Century inventions, unheard of and indeed denounced before that.


The earliest explicit record of a baby being baptized is from the year 140 AD and it comes from one of the greatest and most esteemed Church Fathers, Irenius who states in A.D. 189 that he was baptized shortly after birth and was born in A.D 140. The Second Century is earlier than the late 16th Century, I'm sure you will yield.



Here are some statements from the Early Church since you specifically asked:

Hippolytus
:

“Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them” (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).


Origen:

“Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given also to infants. (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]).


“The Church received from the apostles the giving of baptism also to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit” (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).


Cyprian of Carthage

“As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born” (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

“If, in the case of the worst sinners and those who formerly sinned much against God, when afterwards they believe, the remission of their sins is granted and no one is held back from baptism and grace, how much more, then, should an infant not be held back, who, having but recently been born, has done no sin, except that, born of the flesh according to Adam, he has contracted the contagion of that old death from his first being born. For this very reason does an infant approaches more easily to receive the remission of sins: because the sins forgiven him are not his own but those of another” (ibid., 64:5 A.D. 253).


Gregory of Nazianz

“Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood. From his most tender age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. Do you fear the seal of baptism because of the weakness of nature? Oh, what a pusillanimous mother and of how little faith!” (Oration on Holy Baptism 40:7 [A.D. 388]).

“‘Well enough,’ some will say, ‘for those who ask for baptism, but what do you have to say about those who are still children, and aware neither of loss nor of grace? Shall we baptize them too?’ Certainly I respond. Better that they be sanctified unaware, than that they depart unsealed and uninitiated” (ibid., 40:28). A.D. 388


John Chrysostom

“You see how many are the benefits of baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins, but we have enumerated ten honors it bestows! For this reason we baptize also infants, though they are not defiled by [personal] sins, so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his [Christ’s] members” (Baptismal Catecheses in Augustine, Against Julian 1:6:21 [A.D. 388]).


Augustine (Admired especially by Calvinists)

“What the universal Church holds, not as instituted by councils but as something always held, is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority. Since others respond for infants, so that the celebration of the sacrament may be complete for them, it is certainly availing to them for their consecration, because they themselves are not able to respond” (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 4:24:31 [A.D. 400]).

“The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic” (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39
[A.D. 408]).

“Cyprian was not issuing a new decree but was keeping to the most solid belief of the Church in order to correct some who thought that infants ought not be baptized before the eighth day after their birth. . . . He agreed with certain of his fellow bishops that an infant is able to be duly baptized as soon as he is born” (Letters 166:8:23 [A.D. 412]).

“By this grace baptized infants too are ingrafted into his [Christ’s] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. Christ, in whom all are made alive . . . gives also the most hidden grace of his Spirit to believers, grace which he secretly infuses also into infants. . . . If anyone wonders why children born of the baptized should themselves be baptized, let him attend briefly to this. . . . The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:9:10; 1:24:34; 2:27:43 [A.D. 412]).


Council of Carthage V

“Item: It seemed good that whenever there were not found reliable witnesses who could testify that without any doubt the abandoned children were baptized and when the children themselves were not, on account of their tender age, able to answer concerning the giving of the sacraments to them, all such children should be baptized without scruple, lest a hesitation should deprive them of the cleansing of the sacraments. This was urged by the North African legates, our brethren, since they redeem many such [abandoned children] from the barbarians” (Canon 7 [A.D. 401]).


Council of Mileum II

“Whoever says that infants fresh from their mothers’ wombs ought not to be baptized, or say that they are indeed baptized unto the remission of sins, but that they draw nothing of the original sin of Adam, which is expiated in the bath of regeneration . . . let him be anathema [excommunicated]. Since what the apostle Paul says, ‘Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so passed to all men, in whom all have sinned’ [Rom. 5:12], must not be understood otherwise than the catholic church spread everywhere has always understood it. For on account of this rule of faith also infants, who in themselves thus far have not been able to commit any sin, are therefore truly baptized unto the remission of sins, so that that which they have contracted from generation may be cleansed in them by regeneration” (Canon 3 [A.D. 416]).


All of these are from the Early Church and are before the late 16th century when the dogmas of Anti-Paedobaptism, Credobaptism and Immersion-Only Baptism were invented and began to be practiced.




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