Sinless Mary

[MoreCoffee]

I did not know that.

He is a saint, all of the saints are venerated.

 

[Arsenios]

I long for a normal paragraph one of these days instead of some stream of consciousness or blank verse poetry.

Well so much for my theory. I thought that those strings of sentences
were rather rigorously articulated in a logic of sequencing so as to form
an irrefutable conceptual chain of reasoning that would prove to be so
compelling that any reasonable person considering them one sentence
at a time with the ... after each for one's personal contemplation would
help illumine the darkness of fast agglomerations of all-inclusive ideas
that suffer lack of succinctness in hierarchical orchestrations of thought
such that by mentioning everything they explicate nothing but leave no
unturned stone untouched nonetheless in their haste to make sure that
the paragraph form of explication might please the discerning reader...

There, a normal paragraph...
Mind you!




Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I second that, Mary calls Christ her Savior, she had to repent of her sins just like everyone else who receive Salvation.
We could also go around saying that John the Baptist was sinless because the bible never mentions anything other than he wanted Christ to baptise him, we all know that Christ was baptised by John, so was John sinless? Just like Mary had a very important role so did John in baptizing Christ (a custom those day for every Jew who wished to become Rabbi or priest).
All fall short of the glory of God, that is biblical

The issue is not sinlessness, but being born under the rulership of Death...

Being given Christ's Life is only possible in purity of heart...

Hence Christ's first action of being Himself Baptized BY John in the Jordan, the border of the Promised Land the Jews spent 40 years in the Wilderness to come to...

Baptism cleanses us from all sin, and in this purity we are reborn into Christ and Sealed in the Holy Spirit of Christ...

This Seal is the Anointing, eg the Christing, of the one Baptized into Christ...

The very term Christ means Anoint...

So whether or not John or Mary or Enoch or anyone else was sinless, they still as fallen in Adam lived under the rule of death, and would die...

They therefore needed Christ's Baptism into His Life that they live unto God and no longer be subject to the rule of death...

That is why Paul writes that we are Baptized into Christ's DEATH...

Dead to sin...

Dead unto Resurrection...

Dead men ARE no longer under the Law...

Christ's Death is divorce from the rule of death...

And IN this Death of Christ on the Cross we are given LIFE in Christ when we are Baptized into Christ...

It is not that we are saved from sin by Christ's Death on the Cross...

But that we escape death into Life, Christ's Divine Life...

Salvation is a matter of Life and death - Not Sin and Forgiveness...

Though sin and forgiveness are inherent in it...


Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

So whether or not John or Mary or Enoch or anyone else was sinless, they still as fallen in Adam lived under the rule of death, and would die...

The wages of sin are death. They weren't sinless or they wouldn't die. Being under Adam's fall means they are covered under that sin just like the rest of us...which is why they were not sinless.

 

[Arsenios]

Nothing has been presented to substantiate that it is a dogma (a matter of highest importance and certainty possible) that Mary uniquely was conceived without original sin.

Her unique conception as understood by the Latin Church is not a tenet of the Eastern Orthodox Faith...

Just 42 pages of dodging.

Dung-slingers of the world unite!!!


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

The wages of sin are death. They weren't sinless or they wouldn't die. Being under Adam's fall means they are covered under that sin just like the rest of us...which is why they were not sinless.

Correcto!

 

[Arsenios]

The wages of sin are death. They weren't sinless or they wouldn't die. Being under Adam's fall means they are covered under that sin just like the rest of us...which is why they were not sinless.

They are born in Adam, as are all of us including Christ of the Virgin Mary...

Adam sinned and conferred his death upon ALL his progeny...

YOU and I do not have to sin to die...

We have inherited death from Adam...

And when Baptized into Christ...
We inherit Life Eternal...
By dying to Adam's death...
For we are Baptized into Christ's Death on the Cross...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Correcto!

It is false...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The wages of sin are death. They weren't sinless or they wouldn't die. Being under Adam's fall means they are covered under that sin just like the rest of us...which is why they were not sinless.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
hath made me free
from the law of sin and death.

Adam sinned, so we all die in him...
Christ did no sin, so we all live in Him...
Because He overcame death...
Because we are Baptized into Him...
Into His Holy Death on the Cross...

By embracing the Cross,
we suffer and overcome sin and death in ourselves
In denial of self... and
In the Love of God and neighbor...

Following Christ...


Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
hath made me free
from the law of sin and death.

Adam sinned, so we all die in him...
Christ did no sin, so we all live in Him...
Because He overcame death...
Because we are Baptized into Him...
Into His Holy Death on the Cross...

By embracing the Cross,
we suffer and overcome sin and death in ourselves
In denial of self... and
In the Love of God and neighbor...

Following Christ...


Arsenios

Our eternal life will not be in these bodies because they still have the taint of sin of Adam's fall. That's why Mary was not sinless.

 

[Andrew]

It is false...


Arsenios

So if there is no trace of something in the bible (like her sins) then they never existed and you are so sure that she kept every commandment (including every law of Moses) since she was born and because she was so absolutely and remarkably pure she was given the role as the sinless mother of Jesus?

 

[MoreCoffee]

The wages of sin are death. They weren't sinless or they wouldn't die. Being under Adam's fall means they are covered under that sin just like the rest of us...which is why they were not sinless.

Jesus died.

Your reasoning would make Jesus a sinner.

Obviously since the Lord, Jesus Christ, knew no sin, something is wrong with what you've written.

It must be that your reasoning is incorrect. One can die and yet never sin. The Lord never sinned and yet He died. Clearly you are in error and your doctrine is error and heresy.

 

[psalms 91]

Jesus died.

Your reasoning would make Jesus a sinner.

Obviously since the Lord, Jesus Christ, knew no sin, something is wrong with what you've written.

It must be that your reasoning is incorrect. One can die and yet never sin. The Lord never sinned and yet He died. Clearly you are in error and your doctrine is error and heresy.

While Jesus never sinned He took our sin on Himself and therefore He died for all yet remained sinless

 

[Lamb]

While Jesus never sinned He took our sin on Himself and therefore He died for all yet remained sinless

This is why Jesus died ^^^^^

 

[MoreCoffee]

While Jesus never sinned He took our sin on Himself and therefore He died for all yet remained sinless

The point being that the Lord, Jesus Christ, remained sinless.

Enoch never died.

Job likely did die. (Job 42:17)

Mary too, likely died.

Being sinless insofar as never personally sinning is 'sinless' does not make one immune from death.

 

[MennoSota]

He is a saint, all of the saints are venerated.

So...all of Rome's listed saints were sinless, like your claim about Mary?
This silliness just keeps getting more and more crazy by the minute.
A handful of old white dudes sit down and then declare sinlessness upon some dead people. Guess that makes it all legit.

 

[MennoSota]

Her unique conception as understood by the Latin Church is not a tenet of the Eastern Orthodox Faith...



Dung-slingers of the world unite!!!


Arsenios

Between you and Josiah, I've been facinated by your games of dodgeball.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So...all of Rome's listed saints were sinless, like your claim about Mary?
This silliness just keeps getting more and more crazy by the minute.
A handful of old white dudes sit down and then declare sinlessness upon some dead people. Guess that makes it all legit.

Every saint in heaven beholds the face of God and is utterly sinless.

 

[Josiah]

Every saint in heaven beholds the face of God and is utterly sinless.

.... in heaven.

Pray tell: Now how does that substantiate that it is a matter of highest importance and greatest certainty possible that Mary UNIQUELY was CONCEIVED without original sin? LONG before she was in heaven?





.

 

[MennoSota]

Every saint in heaven beholds the face of God and is utterly sinless.

Yep, my dad, my brother, my nephews and niece, my grandparents, they all are saints. I'm a saint as well. So is [MENTION=334]atpollard[/MENTION]. More than these, although it's up for debate with you since you deny so much that is biblical.