Salvation

[Arsenios]

God took my sin upon himself so that justice might be satisfied.

Adam sinned and died unwillingly...

Christ did not sin, and died willingly...

He picked up through His Death on the Cross...

From where Adam failed and died...

And we are Baptized into Christ...

Into Christ the New Adam...

It was not His WORK on the Cross that saves us...

It is His DEATH that overcame Adam's death...ssssssss

He gave up His Soul unto Death...

And BY that death, Life overcame death...

In the One Man Jesus Christ...

Into Whom we are Baptized...

THAT is what saves us...

IF we repent unto Baptism INTO Him...

He told His Apostles to DO the work of Baptism...

To Baptize ALL the Nations INTO Christ...

Into His Death on the Cross...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Yet, you state:
"Hence Salvation is progressive on earth..."
Question: At any time in this progression could you thwart God's salvation?

I can only throw away my own Salvation...
I can scorn God's Gift...
I can turn from Grace back to my old sins...

I am in the habit of beseeching God...
To NEVER let me do so...
And embrace His Grace...
And endure temptations...
Clinging tearfully to God...
In fear and trembling...

God Bless Ya Bro'...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

God took my sin upon himself so that justice might be satisfied.

He took death upon Himself that He would overcome death...
Baptized into Christ YOU can overcome the world...
Death to the world in Christ scorns death...

"As many as have been Baptized INTO Christ...
Have put on Christ..."


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

THAT is what saves us...

IF we repent unto Baptism INTO Him...

And there is your rejection of grace and your addition of works.

 

[MennoSota]

I can only throw away my own Salvation...
I can scorn God's Gift...
I can turn from Grace back to my old sins...

I am in the habit of beseeching God...
To NEVER let me do so...
And embrace His Grace...
And endure temptations...
Clinging tearfully to God...
In fear and trembling...

God Bless Ya Bro'...

Arsenios

So your salvation hinges on your own works. Got it.
You realize that the Judaisers thought the same thing...

 

[MennoSota]

He took death upon Himself that He would overcome death...
Baptized into Christ YOU can overcome the world...
Death to the world in Christ scorns death...

"As many as have been Baptized INTO Christ...
Have put on Christ..."


Arsenios

What an amazing works salvation you preach, Arsenios. Not a lick of grace, but much works involved. Based upon what you wrote, God is not needed. You just have to do your works. Sadly you don't preach the gospel and miss the mark by rejecting God's grace.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What an amazing works salvation you preach, Arsenios. Not a lick of grace, but much works involved. Based upon what you wrote, God is not needed. You just have to do your works. Sadly you don't preach the gospel and miss the mark by rejecting God's grace.

Good works are not a bad thing though, do you agree? It is pleasing to God when you do good things like help the poor, comfort the suffering, feed the hungry, house the homeless especially if they are brethren in Christ. These are praise worthy things to do, is that not so? And is it not good to repent of sins, turn away from them, and do good? It's a good thing to preach the gospel, to help sinners find their way to Christ as the Spirit leads is a good thing that Christians ought to be happy to do, is it not? One ought never become allergic to good works because they are good works worthy of a child of God in this world.

 

[MennoSota]

Good works are not a bad thing though, do you agree? It is pleasing to God when you do good things like help the poor, comfort the suffering, feed the hungry, house the homeless especially if they are brethren in Christ. These are praise worthy things to do, is that not so? And is it not good to repent of sins, turn away from them, and do good? It's a good thing to preach the gospel, to help sinners find their way to Christ as the Spirit leads is a good thing that Christians ought to be happy to do, is it not? One ought never become allergic to good works because they are good works worthy of a child of God in this world.

The topic is salvation.
Is it by grace or by good works. It cannot be both.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The topic is salvation.
Is it by grace or by good works. It cannot be both.

You can't manage an answer to the questions asked? How sad that is.

Good works are not a bad thing though, do you agree? It is pleasing to God when you do good things like help the poor, comfort the suffering, feed the hungry, house the homeless especially if they are brethren in Christ. These are praise worthy things to do, is that not so? And is it not good to repent of sins, turn away from them, and do good? It's a good thing to preach the gospel, to help sinners find their way to Christ as the Spirit leads is a good thing that Christians ought to be happy to do, is it not? One ought never become allergic to good works because they are good works worthy of a child of God in this world.

 

[MennoSota]

You can't manage an answer to the questions asked? How sad that is.

The topic is salvation.

Is it by grace or by good works. It cannot be both.

 

[Arsenios]

The topic is salvation.

Is it by grace or by good works. It cannot be both.

Repent and be Baptized, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!

Is repenting and seeking Baptism into Christ a work?

Or does Christ do it FOR you...

You do agree that entry into the Kingdom of God IS Salvation, do you not?

That we enter as children?

That we mature therein?

Some actually becoming perfected in this Faith we love?

That obedience in a Kingdom is to the Lord?

So we are Saved BY Grace THROUGH the Faith of Christ...

The Faith of Christ engages us in THE great Work...

And Salvation is THROUGH this Work...

The work of repentance from sin...

Faith is the Work of obedience to the Lord...
And the Grace that joins us to God...
Is God the Creator of creation Himself...
KNOWING us that we be KNOWING Him...

"And this IS Life Eternal..."


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Salvation... Is ... BY grace or BY good works.
It cannot be both.

It is THROUGH Faith unto God's Grace...

"For ye are saved BY Grace THROUGH Faith...
And this not of yourselves...
Of God the Gift..."

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

What an amazing works salvation you preach, Arsenios. Not a lick of grace, but much works involved. Based upon what you wrote, God is not needed. You just have to do your works. Sadly you don't preach the gospel and miss the mark by rejecting God's grace.

Salvation is THROUGH the works of Faith discipled by the Body of Christ...
The Grace therein is purely from God...
It cannot be earned as a wage...
It is won from God as a Gift...
For we are contending in this Faith...

Faith without works is dead... Remember??
Without contending Faith has no life...
This warfare is normally unseen...
And requires the WORK of vigilance...

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Repent and be Baptized, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!

Is repenting and seeking Baptism into Christ a work?

Or does Christ do it FOR you...

You do agree that entry into the Kingdom of God IS Salvation, do you not?

That we enter as children?

That we mature therein?

Some actually becoming perfected in this Faith we love?

That obedience in a Kingdom is to the Lord?

So we are Saved BY Grace THROUGH the Faith of Christ...

The Faith of Christ engages us in THE great Work...

And Salvation is THROUGH this Work...

The work of repentance from sin...

Faith is the Work of obedience to the Lord...
And the Grace that joins us to God...
Is God the Creator of creation Himself...
KNOWING us that we be KNOWING Him...

"And this IS Life Eternal..."


Arsenios

You do preach salvation by works, not by grace.
You are a Judaiser in your own right, no matter how you dress it up.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The topic is salvation.

Is it by grace or by good works. It cannot be both.

The underlined text is not the topic. The topic is delineated in the first post. The topic is:

Salvation is not so easy to define. Some think of it as a kind of transaction where the sinner exercises faith in Jesus Christ and God forgives their sins and saves them. A done deal, all finished at the cross. Some think of salvation as a quest of sorts where the sinner repents and believes the gospel and God shows the way and gives food for the journey and rest and everything needed to complete the journey including medical/spiritual aid and emergency aid too with the final goal being salvation on the last day when Jesus says to the redeemed "well done thou good and faithful servant, enter into my Father's rest". There are variants on both of these views too and a few views that are outside the bounds set in the two mentioned above.

Is it enough to believe and is believing more than saying "yes that is right, I think that is true" and maybe acting on the belief or is there more to belief than that and does it mean living a life marked by holiness and prayer as well as generosity to others, love for others, and especially love for the 'brethren'; is a person saved by what they do as well as what they believe or is the doing greater than the believing or vice versa?

This is not intended as a second chapter of the Justification thread.​

If you want to stick with the topic then your posts are off topic. The thread is not intended for grace vs works wars. Besides grace and good works are not opposed one against the other. Christians are saved by grace through faith for the purpose of performing the good works that God prepared for them as their way of life (see Ephesians 2:7-10).

 

[MennoSota]

Salvation is THROUGH the works of Faith discipled by the Body of Christ...
The Grace therein is purely from God...
It cannot be earned as a wage...
It is won from God as a Gift...
For we are contending in this Faith...

Faith without works is dead... Remember??
Without contending Faith has no life...
This warfare is normally unseen...
And requires the WORK of vigilance...

Arsenios

Faith is not a work, it is a gracious gift from God. The effect of God's gift of faith is good works.
You nullify grace with your teaching.

 

[MennoSota]

The underlined text is not the topic. The topic is delineated in the first post. The topic is:

Salvation is not so easy to define. Some think of it as a kind of transaction where the sinner exercises faith in Jesus Christ and God forgives their sins and saves them. A done deal, all finished at the cross. Some think of salvation as a quest of sorts where the sinner repents and believes the gospel and God shows the way and gives food for the journey and rest and everything needed to complete the journey including medical/spiritual aid and emergency aid too with the final goal being salvation on the last day when Jesus says to the redeemed "well done thou good and faithful servant, enter into my Father's rest". There are variants on both of these views too and a few views that are outside the bounds set in the two mentioned above.

Is it enough to believe and is believing more than saying "yes that is right, I think that is true" and maybe acting on the belief or is there more to belief than that and does it mean living a life marked by holiness and prayer as well as generosity to others, love for others, and especially love for the 'brethren'; is a person saved by what they do as well as what they believe or is the doing greater than the believing or vice versa?

This is not intended as a second chapter of the Justification thread.​

If you want to stick with the topic then your posts are off topic. The thread is not intended for grace vs works wars. Besides grace and good works are not opposed one against the other. Christians are saved by grace through faith for the purpose of performing the good works that God prepared for them as their way of life (see Ephesians 2:7-10).

The topic is salvation.

Is it by grace or by good works? It cannot be both.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The topic is salvation.

Is it by grace or by good works? It cannot be both.

Your claim is incorrect. The first post defines the topic. I wrote the first post. I know what the topic is. It is not what you say. It is about salvation viewed either as instantaneous or as a process based on faith alone or on grace through faith unto good works. It looks to the teaching of Christ in Matthew 25:31-46. It is summarised by Ephesians 2:7-10. It takes to heart the warning in Hebrews 6:1-8 and the call to live a righteous life given by the Lord in the sermon on the mount (see Matthew 5:20). You are welcome to discuss these passages of holy scripture but if you do not want to do that and prefer instead to repeat your theological opinions as if they were a magic incantation to ward off the teaching of Christ that good works really are good and that God calls the faithful to live their lives in them then please find a different thread in which to do that; maybe start one of your own that is about "faith alone" and "instant salvation".

 

[MennoSota]

Your claim is incorrect. The first post defines the topic. I wrote the first post. I know what the topic is. It is not what you say. It is about salvation viewed either as instantaneous or as a process based on faith alone or on grace through faith unto good works. It looks to the teaching of Christ in Matthew 25:31-46. It is summarised by Ephesians 2:7-10. It takes to heart the warning in Hebrews 6:1-8 and the call to live a righteous life given by the Lord in the sermon on the mount (see Matthew 5:20). You are welcome to discuss these passages of holy scripture but if you do not want to do that and prefer instead to repeat your theological opinions as if they were a magic incantation to ward off the teaching of Christ that good works really are good and that God calls the faithful to live their lives in them then please find a different thread in which to do that; maybe start one of your own that is about "faith alone" and "instant salvation".

The topic is salvation.

Is it by grace or by good works? It cannot be both.

 

[MennoSota]

When Paul and Silas addressed the Philippian jailer did they tell him that he and his household would be saved eventually, over a progressive timeline, which they could destroy at any moment by failing to meet all the prescribed requirements of the progression?

they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Is the word "will" in the future tense?

MC and Arsenios, your doctrine is demonstratably false.