Purgatory?

[Andrew]

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[MennoSota]

And the fire represents what?

It represents fire.
When the plain sense makes common sense seek no other sense.

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, saint Augustine denounced Pelagianism. Saint Augustine affirmed purgatory. St. Augustine also argues "that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other [sinners] who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come" (City of God XXI.24).


He would denounce Calvinism had it existed in his day.

Like you and me, Augustine was not perfect in his understanding.
What I note is that you do not deny that the RCC is full blown Pelagian today.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Like you ..., Augustine was not perfect in his understanding.
...

Saint Augustine died some time around 430 AD.

Saint Augustine affirmed purgatory "that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other [sinners] who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come" (City of God XXI.24). He had good reason to affirm it because he learned it from the apostles' successors who learned it from the apostles who learned it from Jesus Christ and the apostles witnessed to it in holy scripture.

 

[MennoSota]

Saint Augustine died some time around 430 AD.

Saint Augustine affirmed purgatory "that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other [sinners] who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come" (City of God XXI.24). He had good reason to affirm it because he learned it from the apostles' successors who learned it from the apostles who learned it from Jesus Christ and the apostles witnessed to it in holy scripture.

LOL, Augustine would have had to be over 400 years old to learn about purgatory from the Apostles.
Considering Augustine was by his own account a whoring man, it is impossible that he learned from the Apostles anything beyond what we ourselves learn through reading God's word.
MC, you are appealing to an unsubstantiated claim by the utterly flawed leaders of the RCC. No intelligent person will follow you down that bunny trail of deception.

 

[Andrew]

It represents fire.
When the plain sense makes common sense seek no other sense.

So are we to be baptised in literal fire? I mean really patrick

 

[Josiah]

Saint Augustine died some time around 430 AD.

Saint Augustine affirmed purgatory "that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other [sinners] who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come" (City of God XXI.24). He had good reason to affirm it because he learned it from the apostles' successors who learned it from the apostles who learned it from Jesus Christ and the apostles witnessed to it in holy scripture.

Nothing remotely to do with Purgatory. Augustine knew NOTHING of this (heck, the theory wasn't even first proposed until the 11th Century and not officially taught until the 13th, Augustine lived LONG before that).

 

[MennoSota]

So are we to be baptised in literal fire? I mean really patrick

God the Spirit baptized us at the moment God the Father adopted us due to God the Son's atonement.
Your struggle to grasp God's word is fascinating.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nothing remotely to do with Purgatory. Augustine knew NOTHING of this ....

Bzzzt!

"that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other [sinners] who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come" (City of God xxi.24).

 

[Andrew]

God the Spirit baptized us at the moment God the Father adopted us due to God the Son's atonement.
Your struggle to grasp God's word is fascinating.

That made no sense at all

 

[MennoSota]

That made no sense at all

Read your Bible. You have adopted so many heresy's it is hard for you.

 

[Andrew]

Read your Bible. You have adopted so many heresy's it is hard for you.

God is omnipresent meaning everywhere, and when he separates the good and bad, they will be tormented by his fire because they hate love and love hate.

 

[MennoSota]

God is omnipresent meaning everywhere, and when he separates the good and bad, they will be tormented by his fire because they hate love and love hate.

Indeed, rebels to God will spend eternity in the lake of fire (hell).

 

[Josiah]

Some resources:

Short and brief: https://carm.org/purgatory-and-1-cor-315

Biblical Evaluation: http://www.equip.org/article/is-purgatory-a-biblical-concept/

Luther and Purgatory: https://christianity.stackexchange....r-accept-or-reject-the-existence-of-purgatory

From an Eastern Orthodox perspective: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Purgatory




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[Albion]

If my bible were as eviscerated as yours I would toss it in the bin.

"Eviscerated," eh? I'd love to have you stand behind that assessment by telling us which essential doctrines depend upon something that is to be found in those few books which have been in dispute ever since the first century AD. Come up with a few and that would show how important they must be.

 

[Andrew]

Indeed, rebels to God will spend eternity in the lake of fire (hell).

and the fire is symbolic

 

[Josiah]

"Eviscerated," eh? I'd love to have you stand behind that assessment by telling us which essential doctrines depend upon something that is to be found in those few books which have been in dispute ever since the first century AD. Come up with a few and that would show how important they must be.

Nothing in any DEUTERO book teaches the new, unique RC Dogma of Purgatory. So, whether they are DEUTERO or normative is irrelevant.... they don't teach this new RCC dogma. Nothing does except the modern RC Denomination.

 

[Albion]

Nothing in any DEUTERO book teaches the new, unique RC Dogma of Purgatory. So, whether they are DEUTERO or normative is irrelevant.... they don't teach this new RCC dogma. Nothing does except the modern RC Denomination.

That's true, and this thread is allegedly about Purgatory. I, however was responding to the characterization of the Bible, minus Apocryphal books, as having been "eviscerated."

If that were correct to say, there would be significant omissions from the Scriptures that affect our faith. The reality is that this isn't so. These books aren't even like the Bible books. As you know, the doctrine of Purgatory is often tied by Catholics to a verse from the Apocrypha which, however, doesn't speak of anything like Purgatory.

But even if it did...

that would be the only doctrine, and the RCC doesn't defend Purgatory by pointing to that verse exclusively, anyway. And that's to say nothing of the fact that Purgatory isn't a doctrine that's essential for salvation.

So, "eviscerated?" Not in any way.

 

[Andrew]

Thanks for sharing your heresy that denies the existence of hell. I now see you deny the full deity of God and deny eternal damnation despite the fact that God the Son spoke about it more than any other in the Bible.
Are you sure you're not a charismatic Jehovah's Witness?

made this for you

 

[MennoSota]

made this for you

It's really for you. You have displayed beliefs that are not in line with Christianity.