Prelude to Sunday's debate

[MoreCoffee]

I tend to agree, the religious are neither morally superior nor inferior to the non-religious. Being virtuous truly is its own reward.

Virtue can bring suffering and rarely is rewarded by others. But for the virtuous it is a reward to keep integrity and know it.

 

[Rens]

But, morality need not come from religion...one need not be religious to have a good sense of morality. One need only look at certain theocratic nations to see how dangerous application of religious morality to law can be.

I have never heard of a theocratic nation, South Korea maybe, heard half of them are christian. If they're really christian, real theocracy, that's perfect, like Wales with the revival or those places where the police could quit their job and the jails closed. No idea what kind of govt they had. Oh yes of course Israel back in the day before they had to have a king. That was real theocratic.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I have never heard of a theocratic nation, South Korea maybe, heard half of them are christian. If they're really christian, real theocracy, that's perfect, like Wales with the revival or those places where the police could quit their job and the jails closed. No idea what kind of govt they had. Oh yes of course Israel back in the day before they had to have a king. That was real theocratic.

Saudi Arabia is Theocratic, so is Iran.

 

[Rens]

Saudi Arabia is Theocratic, so is Iran.

Ooh I didn't know just any deity counted to be called theocratic.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ooh I didn't know just any deity counted to be called theocratic.

Any monotheistic deity I suppose

 

[MarkFL]

I have never heard of a theocratic nation, South Korea maybe, heard half of them are christian. If they're really christian, real theocracy, that's perfect, like Wales with the revival or those places where the police could quit their job and the jails closed. No idea what kind of govt they had. Oh yes of course Israel back in the day before they had to have a king. That was real theocratic.

A greater level of religiosity among a population doesn't equate to less crime, in fact just the opposite seems to be indicated by the statistics.

 

[Rens]

A greater level of religiosity among a population doesn't equate to less crime, in fact just the opposite seems to be indicated by the statistics.

That's sad.

The Effect of the Revival on Wales
Thousands of people were saved. Public houses became almost empty. Men and women who used to waste their money getting drunk were now saving it and giving it to the church. They were using their money to buy clothes and food for their families.
Stealing and other offences became less and less. Often a magistrate came to court and found that there were no cases for him to try.
Men who blasphemed learned to talk purely. The miners put in a better day’s work but the pit ponies could not understand what had happened to the miners as they spoke to them more kindly. They were so used to being sworn at that they became disobedient!
People who had been careless about paying their bills or paying back money they had borrowed gave back all they owed.
People who had quarrelled forgave each other and were reconciled.
Society was changed and Wales became a God-fearing nation.

 

[psalms 91]

That's sad.

The Effect of the Revival on Wales
Thousands of people were saved. Public houses became almost empty. Men and women who used to waste their money getting drunk were now saving it and giving it to the church. They were using their money to buy clothes and food for their families.
Stealing and other offences became less and less. Often a magistrate came to court and found that there were no cases for him to try.
Men who blasphemed learned to talk purely. The miners put in a better day’s work but the pit ponies could not understand what had happened to the miners as they spoke to them more kindly. They were so used to being sworn at that they became disobedient!
People who had been careless about paying their bills or paying back money they had borrowed gave back all they owed.
People who had quarrelled forgave each other and were reconciled.
Society was changed and Wales became a God-fearing nation.

Yes, we need that type of revival again

 

[Rens]

Yes, we need that type of revival again

I read on Facebook from some old preacher: the solution is not in the white house, but the prayer house.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I have some doubts about the claims made for the Welsh revival of 1904-1906. The BBC history web page says

By the end of the 20th century, less than one in 10 of the inhabitants of Wales regularly attended a place of worship, an astonishing contrast with the much vaunted devoutness of the Welsh people a century earlier.​

(source)

So if there was a revival in 1904-1906 then by the 1990s it left no significant trace in Wales. The religious climate in Wales is the same as it is almost everywhere in rich western nations and the "revival" left no long lasting impact.

 

[psalms 91]

I read on Facebook from some old preacher: the solution is not in the white house, but the prayer house.

Absolutely, when we take God out of the picture bad things happen

 

[tango]

Yet most do make decisions based o n what they believe

Of course they do, the point is to make government as small as possible while remaining functional. That way people can make decisions based on their beliefs but they don't get to impose their preferences on everybody else.