Pray to be worthy.

[MoreCoffee]

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

 

[Josiah]

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

The context is the Return of Christ..... Unlike a tiny minority of radical Calvinists, Christians generally believe it is possible to fall from faith.... for pride to overwhelm faith and cause us to trust in our own will and works and thus fall from His mercy and forgiveness.

IF one choose to forsake faith, to disassociate themselves from Jesus, and to stand before God as their own goody-goody self (think the Parable of the Publican and Pharisee) - then you better be worthy! And that means to be SINLESS from the moment of conception to the moment of death, equal to God in terms of holiness, righteousness, love, obedience and service (good luck on that). We are to remain faithful.... remain in the faith.... standing with Jesus.... and thus be worthy;.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The context is the Return of Christ..... Unlike a tiny minority of radical Calvinists, Christians generally believe it is possible to fall from faith.... for pride to overwhelm faith and cause us to trust in our own will and works and thus fall from His mercy and forgiveness.

IF one choose to forsake faith, to disassociate themselves from Jesus, and to stand before God as their own goody-goody self (think the Parable of the Publican and Pharisee) - then you better be worthy! And that means to be SINLESS from the moment of conception to the moment of death, equal to God in terms of holiness, righteousness, love, obedience and service (good luck on that). We are to remain faithful.... remain in the faith.... standing with Jesus.... and thus be worthy;.

Do you think that "past tense salvation" is a fake gospel or is the quote above fake?

 

[MennoSota]

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

I continue to shake my head in wonder at your thoughts, MC.
34*“Watch out! Don’t let your hearts be dulled by carousing and drunkenness, and by the worries of this life. Don’t let that day catch you unaware,35*like a trap. For that day will come upon everyone living on the earth.*36*Keep alert at all times. And pray that you might be strong enough to escape these coming horrors and stand before the Son of Man.”

 

[Albion]

That's correct.

Heres the same perspective, given by a well-known source:

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(36) Pray always.--The word is not the same commonly used for "pray," but occurs once only in the other Gospels (Matthew 9:38). St. Luke uses it fifteen times in the Gospel and Acts together, and St. Paul six times (2Corinthians 5:20; 2Corinthians 8:4; 2Corinthians 10:2, et seq.). It is not used by any other New Testament writer.

That ye may be accounted worthy . . .--See Note on Luke 20:35. The better MSS., however, give, "that ye may have strength to escape."

To stand before the Son of man.--The same preposition is used with special reference to the final judgment in 2Corinthians 5:10, 1Thessalonians 3:13.

 

[MennoSota]

.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

The verse may be taken to mean:

• Be watchful and pray constantly. {a command or a request that stands on its own}
  That you may be worthy to stand before the Son of Man. {A consequence of your activity in watchfulness and constant prayer}
  or
• Be watchful and pray constantly, {a clause in a thought expressed in a sentence; the clause enjoining watchfulness and constant prayer as a precondition activity leading the the goal expressed in the second clause}
  That you may be worthy {as a consequence of the watchfulness and constant prayer} to stand before the Son of Man. {the goal of the watchfulness and constant prayer}

Mock with pop references to Wayne's World if you like. Mocking is a reaction that the gospel creates in some.

Ask for context which is what some who want to sieve every verse through a "narrow" perspective raise as an obstacle to reading verses for what they say.

Immediate context is found in the surrounding paragraph

Luke 21:34-38 But be attentive to yourselves, lest perhaps your hearts may be weighed down by self-indulgence and inebriation and the cares of this life. And then that day may overwhelm you suddenly. 35 For like a snare it will overwhelm all those who sit upon the face of the entire earth. 36 And so, be vigilant, praying at all times, so that you may be held worthy to escape from all these things, which are in the future, and to stand before the Son of man." 37 Now in the daytime, he was teaching in the temple. But truly, departing in the evening, he lodged on the mount that is called Olivet. 38 And all the people arrived in the morning to listen to him in the temple.
​

 

[Arsenios]

Luke 21:36
ἀγρυπνεῖτε οὐν ἐν παντὶ καιρῷ δεόμενοι
Be ye standing vigil therefore in every time praying

ἵνα καταξιωθῆτε ἐκφυγεῖν ταῦτα πάντα τὰ μέλλοντα γίνεσθαι
in order that ye should be strengthened to flee these all about to come to pass

καὶ σταθῆναι ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.
and to stand before the Son of man.

Therefore stand vigil in all times praying
That ye should be strengthened
To flee all the things about to happen
And to stand before the Son of man...

So we are to pray in all times in order to be strengthened...
By vigilant prayer we gain strength...
Strength to escape the snares of demonic powers...
And to stand, not fall, before the Son of man...

Worthy is not in the text - axios...


Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

Luke 21:36
ἀγρυπνεῖτε οὐν ἐν παντὶ καιρῷ δεόμενοι
Be ye standing vigil therefore in every time praying

ἵνα καταξιωθῆτε ἐκφυγεῖν ταῦτα πάντα τὰ μέλλοντα γίνεσθαι
in order that ye should be strengthened to flee these all about to come to pass

καὶ σταθῆναι ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.
and to stand before the Son of man.

Therefore stand vigil in all times praying
That ye should be strengthened
To flee all the things about to happen
And to stand before the Son of man...

So we are to pray in all times in order to be strengthened...
By vigilant prayer we gain strength...
Strength to escape the snares of demonic powers...
And to stand, not fall, before the Son of man...

Worthy is not in the text - axios...


Arsenios

Luke 21:36 KJV Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Luke 21:36 GNT αγρυπνειτε ουν εν παντι καιρω δεομενοι ινα καταξιωθητε εκφυγειν ταυτα παντα τα μελλοντα γινεσθαι και σταθηναι εμπροσθεν του υιου του ανθρωπου

καταξιόω
kataxioō
Thayer Definition:

1) to account worthy, judge worthy
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2596 and G515​

καταξιόω - (The Complete Word Study Dictionary)

kataxióō; contracted kataxiṓ, fut. kataxiṓsō from katá (G2596), an intens., and axióō (G515), to think worthy, fit. To count worthy of something. In the NT, only in the pass. meaning to be counted worthy (Luk 20:35; Luk 21:36; Act 5:41; 2Th 1:5).
Syn.: hikanóō (G2427), to enable; endunamóō (G1743), to empower.
Ant.: exouthenéō (G1848), to make of no account, despise.​

 

[Arsenios]

Luke 21:36 KJV Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Luke 21:36 GNT αγρυπνειτε ουν εν παντι καιρω δεομενοι ινα καταξιωθητε εκφυγειν ταυτα παντα τα μελλοντα γινεσθαι και σταθηναι εμπροσθεν του υιου του ανθρωπου

καταξιόω
kataxioō
Thayer Definition:

1) to account worthy, judge worthy
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2596 and G515​

καταξιόω - (The Complete Word Study Dictionary)

kataxióō; contracted kataxiṓ, fut. kataxiṓsō from katá (G2596), an intens., and axióō (G515), to think worthy, fit. To count worthy of something. In the NT, only in the pass. meaning to be counted worthy (Luk 20:35; Luk 21:36; Act 5:41; 2Th 1:5).
Syn.: hikanóō (G2427), to enable; endunamóō (G1743), to empower.
Ant.: exouthenéō (G1848), to make of no account, despise.​

Must have been a senior moment -

AXIOS is definitely in the word I quoted in Greek,
and I had a different word translating it...

Thank-you... "Be accorded worthy" indeed!


Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

Must have been a senior moment -

AXIOS is definitely in the word I quoted in Greek,
and I had a different word translating it...

Thank-you... "Be accorded worthy" indeed!


Arsenios

Christians ought not be afraid of praying to be worthy to stand before the Son of man it is right and proper to pray for grace and to pray for help to live a good and godly life.

 

[Arsenios]

Christians ought not be afraid of praying to be worthy to stand before the Son of man it is right and proper to pray for grace and to pray for help to live a good and godly life.

The way we, the Orthodox, approach this matter is to ask that we be accounted worthy, knowing our sinfulness... I mean, we are such pathetically fallen people in this life... So we do not pray to BE worthy, but to be accounted worthy, even in our sinfulness... And this accounting is not based on our actual worthiness, but on our willingness and desire to turn from evil and to turn toward God...

You see, the problem with worthiness is pride, and pride is so inescapable if we somehos think we actually, in this fallen life and in these evil times, are actually worthy of God... For as the Psalmist wrote: "For in Thy Sight shall no man be justified..." Hence our Metropolitan carefully instructs us that the greatest Glory of the Christian is when his face is in the dirt at the feet of his enemies about to kill him... There is no higher than low, you see...

So that in our obedience to Christ, we do not become worthy of Christ at all, but seek in that obedience to be accounted worthy, by prayer and supplication, to stand before Christ... And in this struggle, we pray without ceasing in every time in which we find ourselves - Not that we become worthy, but that God will account us worthy, but even better, as the text presents here, to be accounted kata-axios, according to worthiness... You see, we act as if worthy in the pathetic ways that we are able to manage to do, in order that we be accounted worthy, and this in virtue of our desire to be worthy, expressed in actions that imitate Christ, the only one worthy, into Whom we are Baptized...

And it is in this that the Orthodox part communion with all, because we treasure humility in obedience to Christ, and eschew worthiness in His Sight... By judging ourselves, we seek to avoid the Judgement to Come... By forgiving others, we seek God's forgiveness of ourselves... We cannot, you see, justify ourselves, for it is God Who Justifies us... And we cannot glorify ourselves, imagining we are somehow worthy, because it is God Who Glorifies... We can move in the Glory of God, but we cannot claim it, except to our destruction...

So we walk that narrow and afflicted path of embracing the sufferings of this fallen life for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven... "In the world, you will find tribulation, but the Peace I Give to you is not of this world..." Nor is this Peace given except one turn from the world, eg from creation, and turn to God, eg the Creator of creation... By doing this, we will be accounted worthy, although in fact unworthy, by God, and take up our habitation in His Heavenly Kingdom while yet on this earth, in an earnest, as unworthy, yet an earnest nonetheless...

And that earnest is what made Moses a God to Pharoah...

Actual worthiness comes in the Age to Come...

And then, it will not be an issue...

Nor will it be claimed as a possession...


Arsenios

 

[Albion]

The way we, the Orthodox, approach this matter is to ask that we be accounted worthy, knowing our sinfulness... I mean, we are such pathetically fallen people in this life... So we do not pray to BE worthy, but to be accounted worthy, even in our sinfulness... And this accounting is not based on our actual worthiness, but on our willingness and desire to turn from evil and to turn toward God...

You see, the problem with worthiness is pride, and pride is so inescapable if we somehow think we actually, in this fallen life and in these evil times, are actually worthy of God...

So educate us on how it can be that anyone who constantly brags about his particular denomination being the best, the only, the one that alone has everything correct, etc....is approaching the matter without pride. :huh:

We have some members here who have strong beliefs, and yet you'd never know from their posts what church it is that they attend.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We have some members here who have strong beliefs, and yet you'd never know from their posts what church it is that they attend.

Verily this that is written in thy message cannot apply unto thine own words.

 

[Arsenios]

So educate us on how it can be that anyone who constantly brags about his particular denomination being the best, the only, the one that alone has everything correct, etc....is approaching the matter without pride. :huh:

To affirm the Apostolic Historical lineage of one's Church is not a brag, but historically ascertainable... Or not... The 5 Great Sees of the Christian Churches of the Mediterranean are historical fact... So that no one in one of these is thereby somehow superior...

Now to HEAR this affirmation as a BRAG is simply an attempt to throw off the affirmation by slander, an argument by intimidation... The road to hell is paved with the skulls of hell-bent Orthodox Christians... And we all affirm with Paul that each of us is among sinners one of those in the first rank... Pride is affirmation of self... Orthodoxy disciples self-denial... (Matt 16:24)... To say, for instance: "I am saved because God has saved me" is prideful, but to say "God might save me if I keep on repenting for my sins..." is an exercise in humility - And happens to be true...

We have some members here who have strong beliefs, and yet you'd never know from their posts what church it is that they attend.

May God Bless them...

As a member of the EOC, I am bound by it's Dogmas of the Faith - Very few Protestant Churches can say the same... I mean, ARE there any? You are Anglican, yes? I have a good friend who was on the path to the Anglican Priesthood when he became Orthodox, and he said anyone would have a hard time pinning down Anglican Dogmatics... Most Bible Believers hang together because of their common Bible Beliefs, but each is pretty much responsible for his own Biblical opinions, and usually gets along fairly well with others doing the same... All of which is a good thing for them to do... I do the same myself... Yet as the Body of Christ, having a bunch of opinions fairly loosely gathered around Bible Study classes by those with differing opinions is contra-indicated in the Bible itself, and when this is pointed out (in Paul), then there is always some way to justify "diversity" of interpretation...

So the Apostolic Churches all hold to basic dogmas, mostly the same ones, with quite a few in the Latin Confession being "Developed" in addition to those of the Ancient Faith, to which we hold... One of the consequences of this Way of the Faith is that I am conformable to what the EOC teaches, and not to what I think a Scripture means... If I err, all one has to do is come up with, say, a Chrisostom commentary that denies my understanding, and I will yield to it, or come up with another Patristic text which shows another interpretation agreeing... Some obscure passages admit of many possible interpretations, and about all of them admit of several 'levels' of interpretation, and yet many are simple and straight foreward... But all are presented within the praxis of the Faith, the Ekklesiological Calendar, the cycles of the Divine Services, Confession and Repentance, daily cycles of prayers, and on and on... However extensively and deeply one is willing to pursue this Faith it will accomodate their dedication... Paul did what God commissioned him to do, and in addition, for his own profit, he worked with his hands... (tents)...

So the point of this is that I have a different Standard to bear, for to me, the Church is Christ's Body, One and Holy and Apostolic, the Ground and the Pillar of the Truth... I do not have to figure out every meaning of the Bible so as to form an original understanding true to my own interpretation... Indeed, I am told not to do so, that should I be called upon to speak of Biblical interpretation, I should speak from the Patristic understanding and the Praxis of the Faith...

The practical consequence is that I have a radically different underestanding than Protestnts have - Menno, for instance, remarked that I understand passages in a really wierd way, when for me, it is just a natural flow of understanding that proceeds from the manner of life in which I am living in this Faith...

Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

Pray to be worthy is humble petition to God for what one does not yet have. It is as far from pride as was the Tax collector's prayer from the Pharisee's. Luke 18:9-14

 

[Albion]

To affirm the Apostolic Historical lineage of one's Church is not a brag, but historically ascertainable... Or not... The 5 Great Sees of the Christian Churches of the Mediterranean are historical fact...

Do you seriously think that the reference was to that one example only?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you seriously think that the reference was to that one example only?

You're playing coy, lacking the courage to say what is meant.

 

[Albion]

Empty minds lead to empty messages, it is said.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Empty minds lead to empty messages, it is said.

Yes, it is said of your messages.