Oh dear Oh my! Tongues again ...

[user1234]

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[tango]

From Gods point of view I am sure He doesnt see it that way. It is mocking and offensive to those who do believe and practice toungues

With respect, there's a difference between mocking a gift and mocking the misuse or fraudulent manifestation of a gift.

Part of the problem, and I say this as one inclined towards use of the spiritual gifts, is that there is often too little discernment within the pentecostal and charismatic churches, where just about anything that looks broadly like something God might be doing is hailed as a move of the Spirit. This in turn leaves the movement more open to mocking (some of which is deserved) and as the apparent ratio of chaff to wheat rises it's more likely that people will come to regard anything that sounds like tongues as being just another charismatic fruitcake trying to look spiritual.

Having seen a few church services where people said something that appeared to be truly prophetic, and a few church services where just about anything and everything was described as prophetic (and where it clearly wasn't a problem when prophecies regularly went unfulfilled, even on the rare occasions they contained anything specific enough to actually be tested), it's easy to see why someone exposed to too much of the latter would come to regard anything "prophetic" as nothing more than someone trying to look spiritual, most likely as a means of pulling rank over others.

 

[Lamb]

Oh but He did use a guy once. Guy was mocking and he spoke in tongues in high German: who are you that you are mocking My gifts?
Babies gey baptised cuz the promise is for you and your children. The promise of being baptized in the Holy Ghost! And one gift of the Spirit is speaking in tongues.
Nope thats all done away and was only for Acts, not for their kids and all far off. Oh well. I'll pray for you in tongues that you see the Light lol. You. You all lol.

God didn't promise tongues for everyone ...even Paul mentioned that in his epistle.

 

[Imalive]

God didn't promise tongues for everyone ...even Paul mentioned that in his epistle.

Doesnt matter, He promised the baptism in the Holy Spirit to everyone. Thats not the same as having the Spirit. Jesus got baptized in the Spirit when He was 30. The disciples received the Holy Spirit and later were baptized in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Albion]

Doesnt matter, He promised the baptism in the Holy Spirit to everyone. Thats not the same as having the Spirit. Jesus got baptized in the Spirit when He was 30.

At which time, what happened--he became God, he realized that he was God, he was endowed with new powers...or just what? I take it that you aren't speaking of his baptism in the river Jordan, which was what fundamentalists scorn as a "water baptism."

 

[MennoSota]

From Gods point of view I am sure He doesnt see it that way. It is mocking and offensive to those who do believe and practice toungues

There is mocking of the pentacostal perspective about tongues. There is no mocking of God and his distribution of the gifts as he decides.
The problem with tongues, as taught by pentacostals is that there is poor hermaneutics being used in observing the scriptures. Using a worldly church at Corinth as the benchmark for the gift of tongues is a terrible idea. Paul was revealing the horrible abuse of tongues at Corinth not a blueprint for how God genuinely gifts people with tongues. Failure to acknowledge the problems in Corinth results in a false understanding of tongues.
We can observe each instance of tongues as they are legitimately used in the book of the Acts of the Apostles. There we see the purpose and function of tongues and God's gifting to specific people.
We cannot definitively say that the gift of tongues has ceased today. What we can say is that the use of tongues in churches today bears no resemblance to the book of Acts. Instead it resembles the chaos of Corinth. Such attempts to emulate Corinth should be avoided? I say, Yes. There is no spiritual edification to the individual nor to the church. All I observe is a subtle pride in being one who speaks in an unknown language. It's self-seeking and self-glorifying, thus it cannot be from God. God's gifts always glorify God.

 

[MennoSota]

Doesnt matter, He promised the baptism in the Holy Spirit to everyone. Thats not the same as having the Spirit. Jesus got baptized in the Spirit when He was 30. The disciples received the Holy Spirit and later were baptized in the Holy Spirit.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not always manifested by speaking in tongues. We know this by observing the passages in the book of Acts.
The false teaching is developed when a church says that you must speak in tongues as evidence of being baptized by the Spirit. That teaching is outright false.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Being baptised with water and the spirit is the only spirit baptism there is and it comes with the water of baptism. Saint Paul mentions it to the Corinthians in First Corinthians chapter twelve.

 

[Imalive]

Being baptised with water and the spirit is the only spirit baptism there is and it comes with the water of baptism. Saint Paul mentions it to the Corinthians in First Corinthians chapter twelve.

With water and then they laid hands on and they were filled w the Holy Spirit. If you get saved you're born from the Spirit, but even Jesus needed the baptism in the Spirit. That was right after His baptism. And then the devil tempted Him 40 days and He came out of the desert in the power of the Spirit.
Before Acts Jesus already blew on the disciples and said: receive the Holy Spirit.
Always when they get baptized after that they get baptized in the Spirit. Sometimes before.

 

[psalms 91]

Being baptised with water and the spirit is the only spirit baptism there is and it comes with the water of baptism. Saint Paul mentions it to the Corinthians in First Corinthians chapter twelve.

So you believe

 

[MoreCoffee]

So you believe

Of course it's what I believe. I wrote it because it is what I believe. But what's more pertinent than that is that it is what Jesus said and what the holy scriptures teach. It is also what the one holy catholic and apostolic church teaches. Some sects reject what is true favouring their own doctrines over the teachings of Christ.

 

[MoreCoffee]

With water and then they laid hands on and they were filled w the Holy Spirit. If you get saved you're born from the Spirit, but even Jesus needed the baptism in the Spirit. That was right after His baptism. And then the devil tempted Him 40 days and He came out of the desert in the power of the Spirit.
Before Acts Jesus already blew on the disciples and said: receive the Holy Spirit.
Always when they get baptized after that they get baptized in the Spirit. Sometimes before.

Being "filled with the Holy Spirit" is not baptism, one is filled as often as God pleases to fill but one is baptised once.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

No words?

 

[atpollard]

Galatians 5:14-15

:esad:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Galatians 5:14-15

:esad:

I used to be a member of an Assembly of God meeting and they regularly attacked other groups with labels like "traditional church" and mockery of their alleged staid worship.

 

[atpollard]

I used to be a member of an Assembly of God meeting and they regularly attacked other groups with labels like "traditional church" and mockery of their alleged staid worship.

Then congratulations on making CH (a non-denominational forum) just like your old AOG church.
I don't even speak in tongues and I find the mockery and pride at the insult and injury inflicted, and repeatedly reinflicted, on Christian brothers suffiently offensive that I have no desire to waste any more of my limited time reading this. I'm going to step out and get some fresh air for a while.

Too much 'flesh' flying around here, it isn't a safe place for a Christian.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Then congratulations on making CH (a non-denominational forum) just like your old AOG church.
I don't even speak in tongues and I find the mockery and pride at the insult and injury inflicted, and repeatedly reinflicted, on Christian brothers suffiently offensive that I have no desire to waste any more of my limited time reading this. I'm going to step out and get some fresh air for a while.

Too much 'flesh' flying around here, it isn't a safe place for a Christian.

An interesting response. Do you think you're attacking anybody, maybe even Christian brothers/sisters?

 

[Imalive]

Being baptised with water and the spirit is the only spirit baptism there is and it comes with the water of baptism. Saint Paul mentions it to the Corinthians in First Corinthians chapter twelve.

Well yes thats true. They heard the Word, repented or believed, got baptized in water and immediately after that baptized in the Holy Spirit most of the time in the Biblical examples. So then it's one thing. We just split it up. First wait I dunno how long after you get saved to baptize, then maybe some day you will find someone who wants to pray for you and lay hands on so you receive the baptism in the Spirit.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well yes thats true. They heard the Word, repented or believed, got baptized in water and immediately after that baptized in the Holy Spirit most of the time in the Biblical examples. So then it's one thing. We just split it up. First wait I dunno how long after you get saved to baptize, then maybe some day you will find someone who wants to pray for you and lay hands on so you receive the baptism in the Spirit.

Most infants are baptised fairly soon after birth. A week or maybe a little longer. That is Catholic practise, I do not know what happens in Lutheran and Anglican communions. I think that Orthodox Christians baptise quickly too.

 

[Imalive]

Most infants are baptised fairly soon after birth. A week or maybe a little longer. That is Catholic practise, I do not know what happens in Lutheran and Anglican communions. I think that Orthodox Christians baptise quickly too.

I was talking about evangelical churches that I've been in. If they had done it Biblical they'd have immediately baptized me when I got saved and then directly when you come up out of the water pray that you get baptized in the Holy Spirit. Torben Sondergaard does that. He says baptism is part of salvation.