Name those sins Christ didn't die for

[Pedrito]

In Post #212 on Page 22, Cassia requested:

could you perhaps provide links to the posts because I have different settings for page numbers and also maybe start again as to what your point is as I have come in late so am not following the relevance/meaning that your setting forth to the thread?

I thank Romanos for providing the links in Post #218 on Page 22. Unfortunately, I don't know how to create links.

With respect to the point I have been making, just in case, I'll log another couple of posts which hopefully will summarise the matter for Cassia.

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As an aside, with respect to (Post #211 on Page 22):

I agree with all but the "whether you get to stay in" part. God's gift of salvation is irreversable. Those things that Jesus removes rewards for would not include salvation itself.

Maybe a quick look at 1 John 5:16,17 may be in order:

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

John is talking there of the specific sin of apostasy (supporting scriptures can be provided). This is a specific exception to the general case he talks about in verse 18.

Not only that, but brothers (and sisters) in the faith are supposed to be able to differentiate between the two types of sin in another, then pray for the one, but definitely not pray for the other.

Food for thought?

 

[Cassia]

It could be physical death such as Ananias and Sapphira suffered by the Holy Spirit Acts 5:1-11 (is that the law of spiritual cause and effect at work?) or like the Corinthian believers, who were dealt with by the same judgment because they didn't discern the Body 1 Cor. 11:29-30

In type it defines God's dealing with the children of Israel in the wilderness 1 Cor. 10:5-11 where all but Caleb and Joshua were judged by God with death before entry into the rest because of certain sins. No one was spared that kind of God's judgement, not even Moses. Those examples of their sins are given here for our instruction Numbers 12:1-15, Numbers 20:12, Deuteronomy 32:48-52
Because we saw the example of the Mt of transfiguration with Moses being there we can see that it's the punishment of God's governmental dealing with His children that's not at all related to eternity.

It's related to our fellowship with God and with one another. Whether or not a sin is unto death relates to the sinning believer's position and condition in the house of God, according to God's judgement.

Apparently these examples point to physical death and is a serious matter in God's eyes. And not something that should be prayer requested by those who see sins of apostasy in that person. Why? Because the law of spiritual cause and effect are at work within that person. Much like praying for someone who's passtime is to defy the law of gravity. Don't pray for them either.

Edit to add: or maybe it's just spiritual laws that cannot be broken....

 

[Rens]

In Post #212 on Page 22, Cassia requested:


I thank Romanos for providing the links in Post #218 on Page 22. Unfortunately, I don't know how to create links.

With respect to the point I have been making, just in case, I'll log another couple of posts which hopefully will summarise the matter for Cassia.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As an aside, with respect to (Post #211 on Page 22):

Maybe a quick look at 1 John 5:16,17 may be in order:

John is talking there of the specific sin of apostasy (supporting scriptures can be provided). This is a specific exception to the general case he talks about in verse 18.

Not only that, but brothers (and sisters) in the faith are supposed to be able to differentiate between the two types of sin in another, then pray for the one, but definitely not pray for the other.

Food for thought?

Well as long as I don't see a pharisee which don't even exist anymore I just pray for anyone. I fell back myself, apostasy you could call it and came back because my mother didn't stop praying. If I see someone fall back I just keep praying. Most are baby christians anyway. Maybe false teachers who live in blatant sin, I don't pray for those. I saw one who just preaches that you should watch porn together when you're married to spice it all up a bit. I was quite shocked. First time I saw someone of whom I thought: oh my, there's no hope anymore I'm afraid. Still I'm not even sure.

 

[Alithis]

One kid who had been brought up in the church had all the advantages all of their life was walking down the street waiting for traffic lights, obeying all the laws. In the alley behind was another kid that was angry hurt had every disadvantage imaginable. In front of him ran a kitten and it took everything in him not to kick it out of his way. Which one do you think God was more pleased with? Both did works because just living is a work, whether for good or not.

Living is not a work..what we "do" while we live.. Actions of chosen will... Are works.. Works of rightousness or works of sin.

 

[Josiah]

Living is not a work..what we "do" while we live.. Actions of chosen will... Are works.. Works of rightousness or works of sin.

Neither replace Christ as Savior OR render Christ impotent as Savior.

Justification is about Christ, not self.

 

[Alithis]

Neither replace Christ as Savior OR render Christ impotent as Savior.

Justification is about Christ, not self.

and yet JESUS himself will say .. " depart from me you who work iniquity ".. so plainly ..HE he will not accept those who do not cease from their sin they know to be sin.
his words tumps your opinion . FOREVER .

 

[Lamb]

Isaiah 53:5-6

But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.…

Jesus died for our iniquities.

 

[Alithis]

oh great ..so we can go and sin any old sin we like becaseu chrsit died for them.. ??

no you didnt say it , but when given without clarification it implies it -whether you intend it or not .

the comand to be saved is repent and be baptised for the remission of sin// it is not say sorry and carry on in it

 

[Lamb]

oh great ..so we can go and sin any old sin we like becaseu chrsit died for them.. ??

no you didnt say it , but when given without clarification it implies it -whether you intend it or not .

the comand to be saved is repent and be baptised for the remission of sin// it is not say sorry and carry on in it

Keeping with the topic then...so Jesus did not die for all sins in your opinion? That's what is coming across from your post.

 

[psalms 91]

Keeping with the topic then...so Jesus did not die for all sins in your opinion? That's what is coming across from your post.

I think you ignored his point. Sinning without repentance is unforgiven sin, why? Because the Word says repent and be forgiven, not hey I did it again and am sorry but hey I will do it again, no that is not forgiven. Only God can judge if someone is honestly trying not to sin but wthout thta then yes the sin is not forgiven

 

[Lamb]

I think you ignored his point. Sinning without repentance is unforgiven sin, why? Because the Word says repent and be forgiven, not hey I did it again and am sorry but hey I will do it again, no that is not forgiven. Only God can judge if someone is honestly trying not to sin but wthout thta then yes the sin is not forgiven

Did Jesus die for those sins or not?

 

[psalms 91]

Did Jesus die for those sins or not?

Of course, His gift to us. But like any gift it must be opened and to open it you must repent

 

[Pedrito]

In Post #206 0n Page 21, Lämmchen said:

I'm not sure why this thread has turned into a works righteousness thread instead of naming those sins Christi didn't die for?

Maybe Lämmchen has forgotten that it was she herself that commenced the diversion by extracting two verses from Matthew 25:31-46 and employing them out of context.

It was merely pointed out thereafter that in Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus reveals a situation where inheritance of the kingdom depends solely on specific works.

To aid understanding, six specific questions about that passage were asked.

No-one has offered any specific answers to those questions. Indeed, some deflective statements have been issued instead.

If Jesus' statements were indeed inspired, are not the answers to the questions in Post #174 on Page 18 important? Of course they are.

If Jesus' statements appear to conflict with some doctrine(s) of the Reader's church, what is the only honest thing to do? Ignore those statements? Explain them away? Or maybe look for a group with an understanding into which all of Jesus' statements fit snugly?


(I suppose that dishonesty associated with the Word of God (whether accidental or deliberate), does not fall into the category of one of “those sins Christ didn't die for”.

But addressing the original topic directly, is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit one such sin? (Matthew 12:31-32))

 

[Josiah]

Of course, for the Christian, anything less than perfect has been forgiven and forgotten by God and won't be considered...

And only those things done in Christian faith will be considered, for "it is impossible to please God apart from faith."


I think there IS some sense in which sanctification (discipleship..... life as a CHRISTIAN) is considered: SOME theorize this has to do with heavenly rewards but not with heaven itself. But I think the KEY is here to understand that Matthew 25:31-46 is LAW and should not be applied otherwise, and does not cancel the Gospel. IMO, this is a Law/Gospel, sanctification/justification issue.


To the thread: With the possible exception of the very, very mysterious "sin against the holy spirit" ... yes, Jesus atoned for ALL sins - there is no sin which rendered Him impotent and caused Him to be less than the Savior.



My half cent



- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

Well as long as I don't see a pharisee which don't even exist anymore I just pray for anyone. I fell back myself, apostasy you could call it and came back because my mother didn't stop praying. If I see someone fall back I just keep praying. Most are baby christians anyway. Maybe false teachers who live in blatant sin, I don't pray for those. I saw one who just preaches that you should watch porn together when you're married to spice it all up a bit. I was quite shocked. First time I saw someone of whom I thought: oh my, there's no hope anymore I'm afraid. Still I'm not even sure.

there is a grace afforded to children in christ , but they must mature and not remain children . they must go on to the meat of the word (and that does NOT mean reading hebrews and romans lol ) it means they go and live a holy life and DO the work of the kingdom .

 

[Lamb]

In Post #206 0n Page 21, Lämmchen said:


Maybe Lämmchen has forgotten that it was she herself that commenced the diversion by extracting two verses from Matthew 25:31-46 and employing them out of context.

It was merely pointed out thereafter that in Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus reveals a situation where inheritance of the kingdom depends solely on specific works.

To aid understanding, six specific questions about that passage were asked.

No-one has offered any specific answers to those questions. Indeed, some deflective statements have been issued instead.

If Jesus' statements were indeed inspired, are not the answers to the questions in Post #174 on Page 18 important? Of course they are.

If Jesus' statements appear to conflict with some doctrine(s) of the Reader's church, what is the only honest thing to do? Ignore those statements? Explain them away? Or maybe look for a group with an understanding into which all of Jesus' statements fit snugly?


(I suppose that dishonesty associated with the Word of God (whether accidental or deliberate), does not fall into the category of one of “those sins Christ didn't die for”.

But addressing the original topic directly, is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit one such sin? (Matthew 12:31-32))

Do you know the extent of what you're saying about the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I'll give you a hint it's Law & Gospel that makes a clear distinction.

 

[Alithis]

Keeping with the topic then...so Jesus did not die for all sins in your opinion? That's what is coming across from your post.

yes he died once ..for all , so repent . dont go back and crucify him him over and over .. we repnt becaseu he makes it known to us we MUST . if we refuse to we are in rebellion. hence -unsaved

 

[Lamb]

yes he died once ..for all , so repent . dont go back and crucify him him over and over .. we repnt becaseu he makes it known to us we MUST . if we refuse to we are in rebellion. hence -unsaved

How many times does He try to keep turning us to Him in repentance?

 

[Alithis]

How many times does He try to keep turning us to Him in repentance?

until he has had enough . and with ananias and sapphire that rope was short .. because he will not tolerate people trampling christ under foot after all he endured for us .
it makes no difference how many times he calls us to repentance, the call does not save us .. the obedience to the call to repent brings us to salvation .
we are saved from a CERTAIN damnation..only a fool would trifle with it .continued sin makes fools of us .

There is a Joy in being free that surpasses all earthly joy. the Joy of laying down each night and waking each morning with a clear conscience , and it is maintained by keeping ones eyes on jesus listening to him and doing what he is telling you to do ... you simply cant sin while you are acting in obedience .

 

[Cassia]

until he has had enough . and with ananias and sapphire that rope was short .. because he will not tolerate people trampling christ under foot after all he endured for us .
it makes no difference how many times he calls us to repentance, the call does not save us .. the obedience to the call to repent brings us to salvation .
we are saved from a CERTAIN damnation..only a fool would trifle with it .continued sin makes fools of us .

There is a Joy in being free that surpasses all earthly joy. the Joy of laying down each night and waking each morning with a clear conscience , and it is maintained by keeping ones eyes on jesus listening to him and doing what he is telling you to do ... you simply cant sin while you are acting in obedience .

When I think of Ananias and Sapphires it makes me realize that my debt of love is never paid but further that I had pledged my whole life to Him and how often I shortchange Him.