Leaven or unleavened bread

[NewCreation435]

Do you think it matters if the bread served in the Lord's Supper is leavened or not? Why. I believe strongly that the bread at the Lord's Supper when it as instituted by Jesus was unleavened because it was a Passover meal. Exodus 12:15-20 states

15 "Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, but on the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses; for whoever eats anything leavened from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. 16 On the first day you shall have a holy assembly, and another holy assembly on the seventh day; no work at all shall be done on them, except what must be eaten by every person, that alone may be prepared by you. 17 You shall also observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt; therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as a permanent ordinance. 18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. 19 Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land. 20 You shall not eat anything leavened; in all your dwellings you shall eat unleavened bread.’”

1 Corinthians 5:6-8
6 "Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

I believe leaven may symbolize sin and therefore it is to be excluded

 

[Albion]

Didn't we pretty much establish (in another discussion) that it was NOT a Passover meal??

Anyway, that is something of a technicality. It does appear to have been close to a Passover meal, and the Gospel says that he broke bread, so I am inclined towards unleavened bread. The main church body that uses leavened bread (although far from the only one) is the Eastern Orthodox which favors the symbolism in risen bread. (Get it? )




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[psalms 91]

In scripture leaven is associated with sin so that is reason enough not to used leavened bread

 

[NewCreation435]

Didn't we pretty much establish (in another discussion) that it was NOT a Passover meal??

Anyway, that is something of a technicality. It does appear to have been close to a Passover meal, and the Gospel says that he broke bread, so I am inclined towards unleavened bread. The main church body that uses leavened bread (although far from the only one) is the Eastern Orthodox which favors the symbolism in risen bread. (Get it? )




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If we did (or you did) I am unaware of it.

The Passover meal occured first. That is beyond dispute. That's why they were in the upper room

 

[Arsenios]

The main church body that uses leavened bread (although far from the only one)
is the Eastern Orthodox which favors the symbolism in risen bread. (Get it? )

Christ is the New Leaven...

We have been consecrating leavened bread for 2000 years now, and counting...

The Israelites were fleeing from Egypt taking unleavened bread for their flight...
In the wilderness, they were fed manna from heaven...
In Christ they have the super-essential Bread which is Christ...

Crackers just don't cut it for us...
The making of the bread, its preparation, is prescribed...
It is a well raised smll round loaf graved by a wooden form...
Plastic too these days...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Didn't we pretty much establish (in another discussion) that it was NOT a Passover meal??

Anyway, that is something of a technicality. It does appear to have been close to a Passover meal, and the Gospel says that he broke bread, so I am inclined towards unleavened bread. The main church body that uses leavened bread (although far from the only one) is the Eastern Orthodox which favors the symbolism in risen bread. (Get it? )




.

No, you didn't establish that the last supper was not a Passover meal.
Jesus broke the matzoh (unleavened bread), which was broken in the seder.
https://www.chosenpeople.com/site/april-2017-pl-see-jesus-in-the-passover/
Whether we agree on Jesus serving the seder or not, we should be able to agree that present day communion ceremonies in churches today are far different than the Lord's supper celebrated by the early church.

 

[NewCreation435]

No, you didn't establish that the last supper was not a Passover meal.
Jesus broke the matzoh (unleavened bread), which was broken in the seder.
https://www.chosenpeople.com/site/april-2017-pl-see-jesus-in-the-passover/
Whether we agree on Jesus serving the seder or not, we should be able to agree that present day communion ceremonies in churches today are far different than the Lord's supper celebrated by the early church.

How would you want to change what most churches do?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Christ is the New Leaven...

We have been consecrating leavened bread for 2000 years now, and counting...

The Israelites were fleeing from Egypt taking unleavened bread for their flight...
In the wilderness, they were fed manna from heaven...
In Christ they have the super-essential Bread which is Christ...

Crackers just don't cut it for us...
The making of the bread, its preparation, is prescribed...
It is a well raised smll round loaf graved by a wooden form...
Plastic too these days...


Arsenios

In the Mass we use unleavened bread because of the statements in Matthew, Mark, and Luke which say that the "feast of unleavened bread" was already underway when the last supper was eaten.

The last supper (Mk 14:12; Lk 22:7; Jn 13:1)
Matthew 26:17 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and said to him, “Where do you want us to prepare the Passover meal for you?” 18 Jesus answered, “Go into the city, to the house of a certain man, and tell him, ‘The Master says: My hour is near, and I will celebrate the Passover with my disciples in your house.’” 19 The disciples did as Jesus had ordered, and prepared the Passover meal. 20 When it was evening, Jesus sat at table with the Twelve. 21 While they were eating, Jesus said, “Truly I say to you: one of you will betray me.” 22 The were deeply distressed, and they asked him, one after the other, “You do not mean me, do you, Lord?” 23 He answered, “The one who dips his bread with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man is going as the Scriptures say he will. But alas for that one who betrays the Son of Man: better for him not to have been born.” 25 Judas, the one who would betray him, also asked, “You do not mean me, Master, do you?” Jesus replied, “You have said it.” 26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said a blessing and broke it, and gave it to his disciples saying, “Take and eat: this is my body.” 27 Then he took a cup, and gave thanks, and passed it to them, saying, “Drink this, all of you, 28 for this is my blood, the blood of the Covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 Yes, I say to you: From now on I will not taste the fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink new wine with you in my Father’s kingdom.” 30 After singing psalms of praise, they went out to the Mount of Olives. 31 Then Jesus said to them, “You will falter tonight because of me, and all of you will fall. For Scripture says: I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered. 32 But after my resurrection, I will go before you to Galilee.” 33 Peter responded, “Even though all stumble and fall, I will never fall away!” 34 Jesus replied, “Truly I say to you: this very night, before the [rooster] crows, you will deny me three times.” 35 Peter said, “Even if I must die with you, I will never deny you!” And all the disciples said the same thing.​

I has to put [rooster] because the web site will not allow the word "****".

 

[MennoSota]

How would you want to change what most churches do?

Given no concern for "efficiency", I would actually schedule a seder meal to be held at the church for those in the church who are children of the covenantal promise. (saved). The meal is the reason for coming and we would share the meal together in corporate song and prayer.
In this way you have people who are really there to celebrate the Lord's Supper. You won't get the people who feel compelled because they showed up at church and communion is on the program so they partake out of peer pressure.
That's my preference, but since the ceremony is a remembrance, I accept that most churches have created an efficient process for the masses to participate. Today I would guess the communion ceremony takes about 15 minutes. I suspect the meal was much longer in the early church.

 

[psalms 91]

Last time I was involved in a Seder meal it took almost two hours, of course that was a lot of explaining the various elements and how it portrayrf Christ in it. I would imagine that the participants of the Last Supper would need none of this

 

[Albion]

No, you didn't establish that the last supper was not a Passover meal.

Yeh. It has been discussed. But if you don't recall, it was not a Passover meal. It might have been planned as one originally, but the Last Supper was not a Passover meal.

 

[NewCreation435]

Yeh. It has been discussed. But if you don't recall, it was not a Passover meal. It might have been planned as one originally, but the Last Supper was not a Passover meal.

Matthew 26:18-19
18 And He said, “Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, “My time is near; I am to keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.”’” 19 The disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover."
Then in verse 20-21
20 Now when evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples. 21 As they were eating, He said, “Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me.”

clearly he told his disciples to go and prepare the Passover and then ate it with them. Then, he instituted the Lord's Supper afterward. It is as clear as day. I'm not sure why you don't see it. Is your doctrine getting in the way of the Bible?

 

[MennoSota]

Yeh. It has been discussed. But if you don't recall, it was not a Passover meal. It might have been planned as one originally, but the Last Supper was not a Passover meal.

We'll agree to disagree, but it seems that jsimms helps make my point.
In any case, it was a ceremonial meal; an actual meal, not a quick eating of a wafer and drinking a shot glass of wine for a moment. The disciples never thought they were actually eating Jesus body or drinking his blood. They did, however, recognize the covenantal relationship Jesus was establishing with them.

 

[atpollard]

The first “Last Supper” clearly used unleavened bread for the Passover. For modern churches, I prefer unleavened because it matters to some in the congregation and I would create a conflict for the conscience of no fellow believer. However, I do not have a strong personal objection to leavening in the bread. I would rather restore some of the more important symbolism that has been lost ... like one loaf broken and eaten by all because we are all one body united in Christ and one cup shared by all because we are all under the same covenant.

Now some churches even offer communion “to go” with individually pre-packaged “body and blood” for one. I can think of nothing less like the symbolism of the last supper than communion for one taken in private at your convenience.

 

[Albion]

Hmm. I did not know that those pre-packaged items were supposed to be taken out of the church rather than everyone communing with them at the same time during the service. I know also that some TV preachers call on viewers to commune themselves, but even that is not ”take out.”

 

[TurtleHare]

The Passover meal wasn't being celebrated although it was during the Passover and weren't they not supposed to have any leaven within the house or was that only for the old testament?

 

[Arsenios]

Now some churches even offer communion “to go” with individually pre-packaged “body and blood” for one.

Fast Food God on the quick!

The original Happy Meal...

Supersize the fries on that quarterpounder with cheese!

Toss in the God on the Side...

Anathema!!

May it never be so!

Lord have Mercy!

Fortunately, it is only a cracker and juice...

Lest some partake and become ill or fall asleep, of which Paul wrote...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The Passover meal wasn't being celebrated although it was during the Passover and weren't they not supposed to have any leaven within the house or was that only for the old testament?

Christians are celebrating Christ the New Pascha (Passover), not with the old leaven of the azymatic hypocrisy of the Pharisees, but with the leavening of Christ in sincerity and purity of heart... Christ is the Leaven of this His Body, so notably missing under the Pasach of the Law...

Arsenios

 

[atpollard]

Christians are celebrating Christ the New Pascha (Passover), not with the old leaven of the azymatic hypocrisy of the Pharisees, but with the leavening of Christ in sincerity and purity of heart... Christ is the Leaven of this His Body, so notably missing under the Pasach of the Law...

Arsenios

I am fairly certain that is not the generally held Southern Baptist position, but I just wanted to say that I actually like that argument for why the Church SHOULD use leavened bread. Credit where it is due. Well done and well explained.

 

[atpollard]

Hmm. I did not know that those pre-packaged items were supposed to be taken out of the church rather than everyone communing with them at the same time during the service. I know also that some TV preachers call on viewers to commune themselves, but even that is not ”take out.”

There are some actual “drive-thru” churches where you can pull in, get a 5 minute inspirational message, get prayed for and drive off with your communion package. Who says you don’t have time for church? :Nooo: