How can an unbeliever please God?

[TurtleHare]

The Justification thread got so long that I did not want my question to get lost in the mess of things and here we can talk about a thing that was brought up and is important and yet it does not fit with what I was taught. How can an unbeliever please God is my question and it is from that thread where Arsenios said he repented for years as an atheist and that it justified him. How is that even possible?

 

[psalms 91]

The Justification thread got so long that I did not want my question to get lost in the mess of things and here we can talk about a thing that was brought up and is important and yet it does not fit with what I was taught. How can an unbeliever please God is my question and it is from that thread where Arsenios said he repented for years as an atheist and that it justified him. How is that even possible?

As I see it, it isnt possible. I agree that it is possible to do good works and even surpass what a lot of christians do but without salvation you cannot and will not please God

 

[NewCreation435]

What pleases God is faith. Otherwise, our good deeds are like filthy rags to God. We have nothing to brag about

 

[Lamb]

An unbeliever cannot please God without faith as Jsimms says. An unbeliever cannot repent (which is pleasing to God) without faith...and if he had faith then he would be a believer.

 

[Albion]

The Justification thread got so long that I did not want my question to get lost in the mess of things and here we can talk about a thing that was brought up and is important and yet it does not fit with what I was taught. How can an unbeliever please God is my question and it is from that thread where Arsenios said he repented for years as an atheist and that it justified him. How is that even possible?

Its not. An unbeliever cannot please God.

I do not remember reading what you said Arsenios wrote, but I have no idea how anyone would believe that an atheist would repent for years, as an atheist, for being an atheist. What would he repent of--offending a being that does not exist???

 

[MennoSota]

Hebrews 11
[6]And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Since God gives the gift of faith to those whom he makes alive (Ephesians 2:1-10) it is therefore impossible for an unregenerate person to please God.
That, however, does not mean that God will not use the unregenerate person to accomplish His ordained will. In Habakkuk we read that God raised up wicked Babylon to do His bidding against Judah, God's chosen nation.

 

[Arsenios]

Arsenios said he repented for years as an atheist
and
that it justified him.
How is that even possible?

Begin with a correction - I did not say that my repenting justified me...

I said God Justified me through my non-believer's repentance...

And in this I was going along with someone else's weak and error filled understanding of Justification...

Then:
The Gospel is the Call of Christ to sinners to be repenting unto entry into the Kingdom of Heaven...
It should not be strange that an atheist
repenting against demonic powers in his own soul
should be Justified by God...

I simply went after the evils I found in my own soul to eradicate them...
That I should become the person I wanted to become...
I had a lot of successes, but the main thing I failed...
And turned from life on this earth...

THAT is when God came to a purified heart except for the one big thing needing excision...
Make that exorcism...
Make that Healing of mine infirmity...

Knowing God it still took another 37 years for Him to remove that one thing...
So now you know...
You could have asked me on the other thread...
Or you could have asked me privately...

I did not come to God by the safe "Inside Passage" to the Kingdom of Heaven...
I came through the outside ocean of storms where few survive...
And I am becoming persuaded that it was to overcome a passion that is almost never, if ever, overcome...
Hindsight is 20/20, and the path is clear from here...
Going through those storms and their casualties was never clear...
Except for personal integrity and an unwavering commitment to the truth...
And this all as an Ayn Rand discipled Atheist...

The Call to Repentance is repentance...
Belief is a great blessing in this endeavor...
I just happened not to believe...
I just wanted a clean soul...
And glittering integrity...

It was my failure that triggered my encounter with God...

And those who have been fortunate to have such an encounter...
KNOW how life-transforming it is...
I can still prove God does not exist...
I proved it to God...
And He replied: mmmmmmmm......

Turns out to be Apophatically correct...
He GIVES existence to creation...
Existence is an ttribute of creation...
God is uncreated...
Therefore He cannot have existence...
So the Orthodox say God is Supra-Existent and let it go at that...
And this baritone in the choir said: Amen!


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Its not. An unbeliever cannot please God.

I do not remember reading what you said Arsenios wrote, but I have no idea how anyone would believe that an atheist would repent for years, as an atheist, for being an atheist. What would he repent of--offending a being that does not exist???

I simply went after evils in my own soul that had no business being there...

THAT is quintessential repentance, it turns out...

Big surprise for me too... An atheist...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

An unbeliever cannot please God without faith as Jsimms says. An unbeliever cannot repent (which is pleasing to God) without faith...and if he had faith then he would be a believer.

God is pleased with those who gird their loins for battle against evils within their own souls...

He does not care if you are a believer or not...

It took Him less than one second in our third encounter to convey that He IS God...

What He wants if our turning from evil and doing what is right and good unflinchingly, regardless of cost...

THAT was my athiest path, and it led me to find the God I was not seeking...

Foretold by Isaiah, btw, and retold by Paul: "I will be found by those not seeking Me..."

I am simply one of these...

Hard pill for you to swallow, I know... I know...

I hate lies, that's all...

And love Truth...

Even unto death...

Arsenios

 

[Pedrito]

Hebrews 11:6:

But without faith it is impossible to please him : for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Albion]

I simply went after evils in my own soul that had no business being there...

THAT is quintessential repentance, it turns out...

Big surprise for me too... An atheist...

Arsenios

Obviously you were not actually an atheist.

 

[MennoSota]

Obviously you were not actually an atheist.

Yes, I question this as well. No atheist would believe they have a soul or that they could exorcise something that is written into their gene code by nature itself. An honest and truly thinking atheist would argue that the entire Universe is determined by nature and nature's function. We act as we do because it is programmed by nature for us to act exactly that way.

 

[Josiah]

The Justification thread got so long that I did not want my question to get lost in the mess of things and here we can talk about a thing that was brought up and is important and yet it does not fit with what I was taught. How can an unbeliever please God is my question and it is from that thread where Arsenios said he repented for years as an atheist and that it justified him. How is that even possible?

God flatly states the unbeliever CANNOT. "Without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God." Anything unclear there? One without spiritual life ergo can't do anything spiritual.


Now, theologicans speak of CIVIL righteousness. Luther spoke much of this, appropriately praising this. ALL are capable of doing relative good to one's neighbor.... and being praiseworthy (including by God) for such. These may be acts VOID of faith, the Holy Spirit and justification - but still of value in view of our fellow human beings. I have a Buddhist friend who does MUCH good for others - and what is good is good. Relatively speaking. BEFORE MAN.


But BEFORE GOD, anything "good" to HIM must be from faith..... and must flow from LIFE..... and is empowered and directed by the Holy Spirit. It is impossible for one without spiritual life to do anything spiritual. It is impossible for one without faith to do anything with faith. It is impossible for one to be directed and empowered by the Holy Spirit without the Holy Spirit. Before humans, a DOG can do a good work (and they often do - even saving people from death) but that's not a good work unto God; it is fruitful to man but it is NOT a good work or pleasing unto God. "It is IMPOSSIBLE to please God without faith." For centuries (long before the Reformation) Christians made this distinction between civil and religious righteousness - "good" before man and "good" before God. It is an important distinction.... if for no other reason, it makes Christianity true, that even the Pharisee (who was as good in the civil sense as likely possible) is still a DEAD man needing salvation....



- Josiah




.

 

[RichWh1]

The Justification thread got so long that I did not want my question to get lost in the mess of things and here we can talk about a thing that was brought up and is important and yet it does not fit with what I was taught. How can an unbeliever please God is my question and it is from that thread where Arsenios said he repented for years as an atheist and that it justified him. How is that even possible?

The only possible way an unbeliever can please God would for the unbeliever to become a believer by accepting the sacrifice of Christ and accepting His righteousness.


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[popsthebuilder]

Repentance (turning away from what one's knows is evil/ wrong in their own life) is indeed possible prior to the reception of faith in GOD.

what Arseneos wrote is spot on with my own experience.

No one said they repented from unbelief in GOD as an atheist. Repent means stop or turn away from; not begin to believe in GOD.

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[Lamb]

Repentance (turning away from what one's knows is evil/ wrong in their own life) is indeed possible prior to the reception of faith in GOD.

what Arseneos wrote is spot on with my own experience.

No one said they repented from unbelief in GOD as an atheist. Repent means stop or turn away from; not begin to believe in GOD.

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Repentance is not JUST a turning away from sinful things. It includes turning TO God. What are you turning away from if not TO God? If you're turning from sin you're turning to something holy. Men without faith cannot do that. They can stop sinning but they aren't really turning are they? Without God they can't be holy. They are still sinful. Without faith in God anything they do is not considered good as has been pointed out a few times here.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Repentance is turning from a thing....not towards a thing.

One cannot turn towards GOD without being found of GOD.

one cannot magically go from atheism to theism on a whim. One must be convinced of GOD. This comes after sincere attempted repentance and is of GOD alone, not of the person who just chooses to believe one day.

Repentance is not JUST a turning away from sinful things. It includes turning TO God. What are you turning away from if not TO God?

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[RichWh1]

The word repentance means to change your mind from Greek μετάνοια

 

[psalms 91]

The word repentance means to change your mind from Greek μετάνοια

this, it is turning away from not turning to

 

[MennoSota]

I suggest people read about the Great Thessalonian Revival and the repentance of turning from idols to God.
1 Thessalonians 1
[9]for they keep talking about the wonderful welcome you gave us and how you turned away from idols to serve the living and true God.

Repentance: Turning away from to go toward God.

God becomes our love, our passion, our greatest joy.