Gift of Tongues

[Andrew]

I am pointing out that you have no biblical backing for your experiences. A non-christian could have the exact experiences you have. My skepticism is based in your non-biblical experiences. There is no reason to accept your claims as having any legitimacy. That statement is not made to offend you. It's made because it is a fact.

I gave many scriptural evidence earlier on but discontinued because as soon as it would get somewhere it would recycle over and over again by diversions obviously because some here refuse to believe it.



Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 12:3
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Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1 Corinthians 13:1
(Two types of tongues listed, tongues of men foreign or native, tongues of angels unknown language)
-----------
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1 Corinthians 14:2
(No man understands, Angelic or Unknown language, speaking mysteries in the spirit)
--------------
I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1 Corinthians 14:5
(He would like all to speak tongues means its possible but for the sake of edification for the early church he would rather they excell in gifts individually)
-----------'
Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying?
1 Corinthians 14:16
(So praising God in the Spirit is obviously speaking a non 'foreigner' language since an inquire implying foreign or not would never be able to understand him, the unknown tongue of angels as said earlier would be the only option in this case "speaking in tongues")
----------
Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
1 Corinthians 14:11
(Barbarian is not a language its a description and its describing a voice or unusual utterance sounding perhaps primitive or confusing, hence interpreters are needed because God is not the author of confusion but peace, speaking in tongues praises God and builds up ones peace BUT to build up the church they needed to draw in inquirers to believe and get angelic or spiritual languages interpreted)
----------
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
1 Corinthians 14:23-25
(The inquires are not foreigners because they are all speaking tongues he understands not what they are saying, if it was meant for him to be a foreigner he would know what they are saying, this is why Paul wants them to all prophesy, these are not known languages)
-----------

On a side note say you are all right, this gift was given to spread the news to foreigners until the Bible become available to all nations of all languages which it has, does that mean that Pauls practice of "Praising in the Spirit" has ceased? As he describes when praising in the spirit, the person with you cannot understand what you say, unknown tongue.







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[MennoSota]

Isn't that a different thread where you finally managed to quote some verses for yourself? Make up your mind about where you're going to complain and where you're going to do verse posts

LOL

 

[Albion]

But all the verses in the world do not prove that something which happened 2000 or so years ago is the same as something else going on today, and that is the whole issue here, not that tongues did or did not exist, etc. etc. in the early church.

That is just one reason why I feel that this whole thing about providing Scriptural proof every time something that relates to the Christian religion is mentioned is mistaken. Yes, it is good to refer to Scripture if there is a dispute, but the real proof lies in correctly interpreting it!

 

[MennoSota]

I gave many scriptural evidence earlier on but discontinued because as soon as it would get somewhere it would recycle over and over again by diversions obviously because some here refuse to believe it.



Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 12:3
-------------

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1 Corinthians 13:1
(Two types of tongues listed, tongues of men foreign or native, tongues of angels unknown language)
-----------
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1 Corinthians 14:2
(No man understands, Angelic or Unknown language, speaking mysteries in the spirit)
--------------
I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1 Corinthians 14:5
(He would like all to speak tongues means its possible but for the sake of edification for the early church he would rather they excell in gifts individually)
-----------'
Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying?
1 Corinthians 14:16
(So praising God in the Spirit is obviously speaking a non 'foreigner' language since an inquire implying foreign or not would never be able to understand him, the unknown tongue of angels as said earlier would be the only option in this case "speaking in tongues")
----------
Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
1 Corinthians 14:11
(Barbarian is not a language its a description and its describing a voice or unusual utterance sounding perhaps primitive or confusing, hence interpreters are needed because God is not the author of confusion but peace, speaking in tongues praises God and builds up ones peace BUT to build up the church they needed to draw in inquirers to believe and get angelic or spiritual languages interpreted)
----------
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
1 Corinthians 14:23-25
(The inquires are not foreigners because they are all speaking tongues he understands not what they are saying, if it was meant for him to be a foreigner he would know what they are saying, this is why Paul wants them to all prophesy, these are not known languages)
-----------

On a side note say you are all right, this gift was given to spread the news to foreigners until the Bible become available to all nations of all languages which it has, does that mean that Pauls practice of "Praising in the Spirit" has ceased? As he describes when praising in the spirit, the person with you cannot understand what you say, unknown tongue.







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Thanks for the verses on tongues all addressed to worldly Christians in Corinth. If you want to be like the Corinthians whom God was rebuking through Paul, so be it. Who am I to stop you from acting like them.

 

[Andrew]

Well, maybe you'll recall this post of yours on page one?




And this one on page 9



I remember another post of yours (this is a long thread!) where you mentioned that you stopped doing things that were sinful because of tongues. That isn't what the bible states that tongues does. It doesn't convert. The gospel converts. Tongues was proof for those unbelievers but it wasn't what changed them into believers. I know you want to believe that receiving the gift of tongues changed you, but that isn't even listed in scripture as to what happens. The gospel of forgiveness of our sins is what converts us and changes us.

When my changed self began it was that first visit to the church but i left feeling different and bewildered thats when i posted the Pentecostal thread, however when the tongues started i posted a new thread this one, that was assurance for me and i was not longer bewildered from the change, i actually felt complete and not so overwhelmed feeling a firm closeness with my savior, a week later I got baptized and fully repented of all sins prior (i will remember your sins no more)
As in Pentecostals, first the anointing (first visit) and the first baptism of the Holy Spirit (second visit) and then baptism of Jesus Christ (third visit none including the prayer meeting), so yeah thats the order the church went with me.

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[Andrew]

Thanks for the verses on tongues all addressed to worldly Christians in Corinth. If you want to be like the Corinthians whom God was rebuking through Paul, so be it. Who am I to stop you from acting like them.

Corinth is the state of this forum if you ask me with all its debate and the state of the diverse churches, it seems the wealthier people and poor are a bit separated, i never see minorities in a catholic church, i never see the wealthy in a Pentecostal but i do see a nice mix of race in it. So why not just throw the book of corinthians out? Paul the gentiles apostle is not worthy? Why do we read from it?
You obviously dont like it because of the issue of spiritual gifts mainly the gift of diverse tongues...

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[Imalive]

Thanks for the verses on tongues all addressed to worldly Christians in Corinth. If you want to be like the Corinthians whom God was rebuking through Paul, so be it. Who am I to stop you from acting like them.

Don't get married anymore either. Its sin cause the worldly Corinthians were in lust. Dont do the wine and bread anymore in church. Its sin cause the Corinths misused it. Or better stop being christian altogether.
Paul didn't tell em to stop speaking in tongues altogether and he said it wasnt in order, he didnt say it was demonic.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Corinth is the state of this forum if you ask me with all its debate and the state of the diverse churches, it seems the wealthier people and poor are a bit separated, i never see minorities in a catholic church, i never see the wealthy in a Pentecostal but i do see a nice mix of race in it. So why not just throw the book of corinthians out? Paul the gentiles apostle is not worthy? Why do we read from it?
You obviously dont like it because of the issue of spiritual gifts mainly the gift of diverse tongues...

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You ought to visit my parish church then. There are plenty of people from disadvantaged minorities in our congregation. That's why we have such an active Saint Vincent de Paul society and our of local care service to help people get to appointments and do their shopping with them and help pay phone bills and other bills like power and gas.

I visited one of the local Pentecostal meetings and the preaching was about bringing your tithes into God's storehouse lest you are found robbing God

 

[Imalive]

You ought to visit my parish church then. There are plenty of people from disadvantaged minorities in our congregation. That's why we have such an active Saint Vincent de Paul society and our of local care service to help people get to appointments and do their shopping with them and help pay phone bills and other bills like power and gas.

I visited one of the local Pentecostal meetings and the preaching was about bringing your tithes into God's storehouse lest you are found robbing God

Tithes are supposed to take care of the poor. Lol in Dutch poor is armen, arms, which also means arms. So one guy as a kid went door to door to collect money for the poor, arms and got a bunch. Later he said: I meant my arms.

 

[MennoSota]

Corinth is the state of this forum if you ask me with all its debate and the state of the diverse churches, it seems the wealthier people and poor are a bit separated, i never see minorities in a catholic church, i never see the wealthy in a Pentecostal but i do see a nice mix of race in it. So why not just throw the book of corinthians out? Paul the gentiles apostle is not worthy? Why do we read from it?
You obviously dont like it because of the issue of spiritual gifts mainly the gift of diverse tongues...

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God gave us the letters to Corinth because it is a guide for us regarding what worldliness looks like. It can guide us to maturity by pointing out what not to do. God gives clear guidance on many subjects in the letters to the Corinthians.
I enjoy all of scripture. I wonder why anyone would aspire to emulate the church at Corinth.

 

[MoreCoffee]

God gave us the letters to Corinth because it is a guide for us regarding what worldliness looks like. It can guide us to maturity by pointing out what not to do. God gives clear guidance on many subjects in the letters to the Corinthians.
I enjoy all of scripture. I wonder why anyone would aspire to emulate the church at Corinth.

I aspire to emulate what is said in First Corinthians chapter thirteen, don't you?

 

[MennoSota]

Don't get married anymore either. Its sin cause the worldly Corinthians were in lust. Dont do the wine and bread anymore in church. Its sin cause the Corinths misused it. Or better stop being christian altogether.
Paul didn't tell em to stop speaking in tongues altogether and he said it wasnt in order, he didnt say it was demonic.

God corrected the Corinthians over and over. Why would you want to emulate the Corinthians?
They were abusing the Lord's Supper, they had unchecked sexual immorality, they were misusing tongues and they needed milk rather than meat.

I have laid out the Biblical use of tongues as they are experienced in the book of Acts. Look at how God gave the gift. It is far different than how the Corinthians were acting. The Corinthians were bringing their pagan babeling into the church. Again, why would any Christian want to emulate the Corinthians?

 

[MennoSota]

I aspire to emulate what is said in First Corinthians chapter thirteen, don't you?

Yes. Love is a great thing.
Read 1 Corinthians 12 and note that God gives gifts to the Body as He deems fit. The gifts are given according to God's will, not ours. If God is going to give the gift of tongues then God will do so. Everytime we see tongues working it is always in conjunction with evangelism and a sign to unreached peoples. Pay attention to the point of why Paul talks about tongues in 1 Corinthians. You realize that the Corinthians were not wanting love as their greatest virtue...don't you?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes. Love is a great thing.
Read 1 Corinthians 12 and note that God gives gifts to the Body as He deems fit. The gifts are given according to God's will, not ours. If God is going to give the gift of tongues then God will do so. Everytime we see tongues working it is always in conjunction with evangelism and a sign to unreached peoples. Pay attention to the point of why Paul talks about tongues in 1 Corinthians.

I read the whole of First Corinthians before I posted.

 

[MennoSota]

I read the whole of First Corinthians before I posted.

Great. How did you miss the purpose for chapter 13 then?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Great. How did you miss the purpose for chapter 13 then?

I didn't miss it but I do want to emulate it - to follow its teaching. One cannot justifiably dismiss everything in First Corinthians because Paul writes several passages to correct their errors. Even his corrections ought to be taken to heart, believed, and observed.

 

[Lamb]

Corinth had a hard time getting past their pagan ways but Paul's corrections are what we are to strive for. He taught them sound doctrine and ways of showing love to one another and proper church etiquette even.

 

[MennoSota]

I didn't miss it but I do want to emulate it - to follow its teaching. One cannot justifiably dismiss everything in First Corinthians because Paul writes several passages to correct their errors. Even his corrections ought to be taken to heart, believed, and observed.

No one is dismissing anything. Instead we learn what NOT to do from the immaturity of the Corinthians. Sadly, I see people looking at the Corinthians that God is rebuking and wanting to be like them. Why? Why would you want to be called worldly and immature?
It's similar to the Galatians. Why would anyone aspire to be a Judaiser whom Paul wishes would emasculate themselves?
These are warnings to Christians. Why would you ignore the warning and want to emulate people who are not walking in step with the Spirit?

 

[Andrew]

Tongues can be used for praise, I see nothing wrong with that especially for today in this age, we should be a little bit more spiritual for it quenches the thirst rather than being lukewarm, i say if you have the gift of tongues you can use it for praise as Paul puts it. This is something that I wasnt expecting, no one was coaching me on how to speak tongues it just happened. So yes I use it for praise

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[Andrew]

Also if the tongues they spoke were only foreign than whats the logic of needing an interpreter if a foreigner can hear what they are saying? Like in acts, they were speaking for foreigners but none of them were interpreting anything it was a miracle.
In the church of corinth however Paul speaks of angelic tongues or unknown tongues that need interpretation.
If someone in my church was speaking chinese to an english party why wouldnt God just have the speaker speak in english UNLESS its a completely unknown/angelic tongue that NEEDS interpretation?
Tongues of men or angels...
hmmmmmm


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