Gift of Tongues

[Andrew]

Really? Hophni and Phineas were killed by God for offering incense in praise to God that was not prescribed by God.
Jeraboam created a calf statue in the Northern Kingdom as a place to worship God. God despised his attempted worship and rejected it.
I think we have to be very careful in saying any worship intended for God is pleasing to God.

Rejoicing is encouraged last time I checked, im not burning things or making stuff from hands i am using only mind body and soul...

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[MennoSota]

Rejoicing is encouraged last time I checked, im not burning things or making stuff from hands i am using only mind body and soul...

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Well...when you are babeling your mind isn't really being used...and your soul has no clue what's going on so it's just your body doing what it feels like.

 

[tango]

Right. There's no reason to discredit that. But what then do we say about the many, many, many tongues-speakers who simply mouth a series of nearly-identical sounds?

What perplexes me almost as much as anything that relates to this subject is that Christians who are firmly convinced of the authenticity of today's tongues-speaking will concede (as we've seen here) that, oh yes, there might be an occasional demonic incident and, oh yes, someone said that they heard someone speak in perfect French, or that there might be an occasional person simply trying to make himself give off sounds that seem like an unknown language -- all of which amounts to making the exception into the norm and vice versa.

And therein lies the problem - it simply doesn't work to say "tongues are valid" or "tongues are invalid", and hence my stance on things like these that God may still use them today but that doesn't mean everything that looks like a gift is necessarily a gift. It's easy to fake tongues, it's not that hard to fake a healing if you're so inclined (and especially if you're in front of an arena full of people who are emotionally hyped after an hour of upbeat repetitive music labelled as "worship"), and with large groups it's easy to pass something off as prophecy when it's just something vague enough to have a good chance of scoring a hit (or if you're a contributor to a site like The Elijah List, where they don't seem to mind if "prophetic word" after "prophetic word" comes to nothing). Hence also the reason that I have little interest in responding to a challenge relating to a third hand account of an event that took place somewhere else - the chances are there's no way I can categorically say it was God at work. There may be circumstances when it's possible to say it almost certainly wasn't God at work (when I was involved in the occult there were times I was able to heal people, which it's probably safe to say was nothing to do with God), but no way of categorically saying it was.

It's just another one of those wheat-chaff situations, where sadly there seems to be a lot of chaff.

 

[Andrew]

Well...when you are babeling your mind isn't really being used...and your soul has no clue what's going on so it's just your body doing what it feels like.

I'll take that, you know why? Because i'd rather my body do that then what it did prior. My body always felt like popping Adderall and Xanax and vicodin, stay drunk all day, smoke 2 packs a day,caused two surgeries in a year due to such rapid poor health, was told last surgery that my liver was soo bad I would die if I didnt stop, my body didnt care, my body made me not work because my felt it didnt have to, when i finally got a job to further support my body I just wanted to die, my body had a language to, it would cuss and it would lust and would want me to steal. So im glad that my body changed to babbling after receiving the Holy Ghost but that old body had to die.

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[MennoSota]

I'll take that, you know why? Because i'd rather my body do that then what it did prior. My body always felt like popping Adderall and Xanax and vicodin, stay drunk all day, smoke 2 packs a day,caused two surgeries in a year due to such rapid poor health, was told last surgery that my liver was soo bad I would die if I didnt stop, my body didnt care, my body made me not work because my felt it didnt have to, when i finally got a job to further support my body I just wanted to die, my body had a language to, it would cuss and it would lust and would want me to steal. So im glad that my body changed to babbling after receiving the Holy Ghost but that old body had to die.

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You gotta stop listening to your feelings. They are like the waves that are tossed by the wind. Sounds like you are trading one drug for a psychological high.

 

[MoreCoffee]

There is a simple solution for people who do not like "speaking in tongues". The solution is not to do it.

 

[Lamb]

I'll take that, you know why? Because i'd rather my body do that then what it did prior. My body always felt like popping Adderall and Xanax and vicodin, stay drunk all day, smoke 2 packs a day,caused two surgeries in a year due to such rapid poor health, was told last surgery that my liver was soo bad I would die if I didnt stop, my body didnt care, my body made me not work because my felt it didnt have to, when i finally got a job to further support my body I just wanted to die, my body had a language to, it would cuss and it would lust and would want me to steal. So im glad that my body changed to babbling after receiving the Holy Ghost but that old body had to die.

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You attribute change of old adam to gift of tongues...but why not the Savior and the forgiveness of sins which actually causes us to change and is the true gospel?

 

[Andrew]

You attribute change of old adam to gift of tongues...but why not the Savior and the forgiveness of sins which actually causes us to change and is the true gospel?

Wow no not at all it was Christ Jesus who saved me, the tongue thing is just something that happens when im already praising God and rejoicing, it just seems to offend everyone here. If you read my first post I was asking questions and now everyone is asking me questions like you are going to ween me off of some psychotic high.
you all try to dislodge the spirit from a brother? :/

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[Andrew]

You gotta stop listening to your feelings. They are like the waves that are tossed by the wind. Sounds like you are trading one drug for a psychological high.

From one brother to another, I think you are starting to cross the line.
"Feelings" don't transform a person. How dare you ridicule my testimony, I never said "tongues" is what changed me. Get your facts straight, I didnt start speaking tongues until 3 weeks after the complete lifestyle change.

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[MennoSota]

From one brother to another, I think you are starting to cross the line.
"Feelings" don't transform a person. How dare you ridicule my testimony, I never said "tongues" is what changed me. Get your facts straight, I didnt start speaking tongues until 3 weeks after the complete lifestyle change.

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I am pointing out that you have no biblical backing for your experiences. A non-christian could have the exact experiences you have. My skepticism is based in your non-biblical experiences. There is no reason to accept your claims as having any legitimacy. That statement is not made to offend you. It's made because it is a fact.

 

[Lamb]

Wow no not at all it was Christ Jesus who saved me, the tongue thing is just something that happens when im already praising God and rejoicing, it just seems to offend everyone here. If you read my first post I was asking questions and now everyone is asking me questions like you are going to ween me off of some psychotic high.
you all try to dislodge the spirit from a brother? :/

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Well, maybe you'll recall this post of yours on page one?

I feel it could be a gift of assurance, I do proclaim that since that day I have been remade and the blessings are rubbing off on people around me. It's definitely not satanic if it helps you turn away from a life of sin Amen.

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And this one on page 9

I thought I answered it when I posted how Paul describes tongues as drawing in unbelievers and becoming saved, they become believers and can testify that this IS of God no question about it. In my personal experience I likewise know for sure it isnt just a feeling. When that preacher put his hands on me my mouth flowed out an unknown language with no mind to it, that is not natural it doesnt just happen. I cant agree that tongues can be practised at home like you might have heard, i never spoke or tried to speak in tongues in fact I never even really looked into it until after it happened, i wasnt prepared but I know it was Holy because I walked out a completely changed man when before I was a believer unrepented but then I felt judgment come upon me and im freed of a filthy lifestyle that i had lived

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I remember another post of yours (this is a long thread!) where you mentioned that you stopped doing things that were sinful because of tongues. That isn't what the bible states that tongues does. It doesn't convert. The gospel converts. Tongues was proof for those unbelievers but it wasn't what changed them into believers. I know you want to believe that receiving the gift of tongues changed you, but that isn't even listed in scripture as to what happens. The gospel of forgiveness of our sins is what converts us and changes us.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am pointing out that you have no biblical backing for your experiences. A non-christian could have the exact experiences you have. My skepticism is based in your non-biblical experiences. There is no reason to accept your claims as having any legitimacy. That statement is not made to offend you. It's made because it is a fact.

You say he has none. Maybe that is true. Maybe it isn't. If he cites a passage will you examine it or just tell him that he's got it all wrong and the passage is really about something else?

 

[MennoSota]

You say he has none. Maybe that is true. Maybe it isn't. If he cites a passage will you examine it or just tell him that he's got it all wrong and the passage is really about something else?

Share a passage rather than a verse out of context.

You know, Muslims claim the Bible foretells the coming of Muhammad. They pick verses out of context to do it.
It's really quite easy to pluck a verse and make it say what you want to say. We know proper interpretation via the context of the passage surrounding a verse. This is interpretation 101.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Share a passage rather than a verse out of context.

You know, Muslims claim the Bible foretells the coming of Muhammad. They pick verses out of context to do it.
It's really quite easy to pluck a verse and make it say what you want to say. We know proper interpretation via the context of the passage surrounding a verse. This is interpretation 101.

Can't you read the context in your own bible? Must you have it displayed for you in a post?

 

[MennoSota]

Can't you read the context in your own bible? Must you have it displayed for you in a post?

What are you afraid of? I'm asking you to share the context around the verse. This is a good exercise for you.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What are you afraid of? I'm asking you to share the context around the verse. This is a good exercise for you.

Nothing. Can't you quote whatever context you think is needed? Surely you know the context yourself, right?

 

[MennoSota]

Nothing. Can't you quote whatever context you think is needed? Surely you know the context yourself, right?

Well, you're doing what Muslims do. Do you advocate the same for Christians?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well, you're doing what Muslims do. Do you advocate the same for Christians?

So basically you're unwilling to quote a passage in your own post and think I ought to quote something for you instead of you doing it for yourself? You've got to be kidding. We're chatting. I am not your servant. If you think some extra verses are needed in addition to "Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." then quote them for yourself. I am not going to do it for you. I have no idea what extra verses you think you need. Get off your comfy chair and post what you need.

:smirk:

 

[MennoSota]

So basically you're unwilling to quote a passage in your own post and think I ought to quote something for you instead of you doing it for yourself? You've got to be kidding. We're chatting. I am not your servant. If you think some extra verses are needed in addition to "Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." then quote them for yourself. I am not going to do it for you. I have no idea what extra verses you think you need. Get off your comfy chair and post what you need.

:smirk:

I have done as you ask and provided some questions for you. Can you answer them?

 

[MoreCoffee]

I have done as you ask and provided some questions for you. Can you answer them?

Isn't that a different thread where you finally managed to quote some verses for yourself? Make up your mind about where you're going to complain and where you're going to do verse posts