Gift of Tongues

[Andrew]

Curing people with a touch should not be done 'on purpose.'

I'll have to contemplate that idea for awhile.

No one ever said that, you know psalms was talking about snakes

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[Albion]

No one ever said that, you know psalms was talking about snakes

Someone certainly DID say that--in post 218--by citing a Bible verse as her answer to a question of mine. If you want to familiarize yourself with that verse, take a look. It contains the point I was reacting to.

 

[psalms 91]

Curing people with a touch should not be done 'on purpose.'

I'll have to contemplate that idea for awhile.

Actually I was talking about serpents and handling them. As for healing it can not be done without the Spirit of the Lord so it is imperative that you hear the spirit otherwise you make God look like a bad father who cares nothing about healling. We can do nothing it is the spirit that quickens us and the guifts are given liberally and without repentance

 

[Albion]

Actually I was talking about serpents and handling them.

But I was not.

So if you choose to comment, at least address the issue I was referring to.

 

[Imalive]

But I was not.

So if you choose to comment, at least address the issue I was referring to.

Don't be too quick to lay hands on anyone, Paul told Timothy. Laying hands on the sick is the ones God tells you to. That's not tempting God normally except when you just do it w out Him leading you. Don't share in the sins of others.
One guy in Holland just got saved, he was so enthousiastic, he walks to a satan church and wanting to let em all get to know Jesus he asks that leader if he can lay hands on him. Sure he said. Turned out to be the leader from Europe. Guy got totally posessed and he called an evangelist to come over and pray, evangelist said: you come here to church to get prayer when there's more christians gathered to pray. He kicked em out but my goodness. I used to lay hands on everyone. I don't anymore. Some go to church while cheating on their spouse. Bye.

 

[psalms 91]

But I was not.

So if you choose to comment, at least address the issue I was referring to.

When you address a post with referance I wasnt the only one who thought that is what you meant. I guess we really need a thread only for those who believe in toungues, anyone want to start one?

 

[TurtleHare]

This was at a prayer meeting, not typical worship, though it did edify myself.
Before we start the meeting we make a list of names and what matter needs healing.
Its very intimate and dim lit, very respectful and personal with God. One person leads the prayer and the movement of the spirit gets pretty thick. A lot is happening now too, a number of deaths and sickness and houses lost and so on. So your definition of praise and thanks seems a bit off from mine. I asked what I was praying and I got what I asked, God can do anything and we know that, much thanksgiving and praise was going on and yes people do get healed we have a testimonial from a bed ridden man sick with disease praising the glory of God up and and down the pews when doctors said he would die soon. He was there I shook his hand. I am not trying to turn my experience into something biblical and im not trying to impress anyone with miracle talk, miracles happen but it seems never enough for people. Moses parted the red sea and let it close in and drown the Egyptians, then what happened? They started worshipping a golden bull.
Im sure anyone here who speaks in tongues has a different understanding than what i do... but so what.
Too much "mote and beams" going on here.
Very unfruitful to say that "i want to be on some wavelength with God"... Who cares you cant even agree that tongues even exist why care of a description, I know its from God.


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It's not so easy for me to trust interneters who make claims, especially those claims that involved God because I know wayyyyyy too many who want attention or want to be seen as someone special that God chose and in that case he doesn't like all the other folks as much as them Pentecostals. Roll eyes. Yeah, so pardon me if I can't trust your claim about that especially since in regards to what you've said all along about the "tongues" which isn't matching what the biblical perspectives are but go ahead and brag about your experience some more because maybe someone will think it's special. As for me and my family we'll keep on praising God in English and other known languages and His answers are found in scripture which give us our Savior.

 

[Andrew]

It's not so easy for me to trust interneters who make claims, especially those claims that involved God because I know wayyyyyy too many who want attention or want to be seen as someone special that God chose and in that case he doesn't like all the other folks as much as them Pentecostals. Roll eyes. Yeah, so pardon me if I can't trust your claim about that especially since in regards to what you've said all along about the "tongues" which isn't matching what the biblical perspectives are but go ahead and brag about your experience some more because maybe someone will think it's special. As for me and my family we'll keep on praising God in English and other known languages and His answers are found in scripture which give us our Savior.

Thanks for your honesty, sorry you got the wrong idea I was just asking what is was originally because I haven't told anyone personally

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[MennoSota]

I remember listening to Pastor Gardiner from Calvary Undenom in Grand Rapids speak about the gift of tongues. He grew up in a pentacostal home and went to a pentacostal bible school. He attended all the chapels where any people spoke in tongues. He began to question the validity of tongues as more and more people spoke in tongues while others translated. One day he found out that a buddy of his knew the 23rd Psalm in Yiddish so Pastor Gardiner suggested a test. His friend would say the 23rd Psalm, speaking Yiddish, and they would see if those who translated were accurate.
Well...you can guess that those translating had all types of prophetic words and translations, but never did one person translate it as the 23rd Psalm.

Pastor Gardiner never promoted speaking in tongues again. He wrote a short little book called "The Corinthian Catastrophe" where he presented the problems at Corinth.

My guess is I could go to 100s of pentacostal churches and quote the 23rd Psalm in Yiddish and not one church would accurately translate the Psalm.
This does not mean I don't think God can gift someone with tongues, but I think it is rare and I think God uses it only as a sign to the unreached so they can hear the gospel preached in their own language.

 

[Imalive]

I remember listening to Pastor Gardiner from Calvary Undenom in Grand Rapids speak about the gift of tongues. He grew up in a pentacostal home and went to a pentacostal bible school. He attended all the chapels where any people spoke in tongues. He began to question the validity of tongues as more and more people spoke in tongues while others translated. One day he found out that a buddy of his knew the 23rd Psalm in Yiddish so Pastor Gardiner suggested a test. His friend would say the 23rd Psalm, speaking Yiddish, and they would see if those who translated were accurate.
Well...you can guess that those translating had all types of prophetic words and translations, but never did one person translate it as the 23rd Psalm.

Pastor Gardiner never promoted speaking in tongues again. He wrote a short little book called "The Corinthian Catastrophe" where he presented the problems at Corinth.

My guess is I could go to 100s of pentacostal churches and quote the 23rd Psalm in Yiddish and not one church would accurately translate the Psalm.
This does not mean I don't think God can gift someone with tongues, but I think it is rare and I think God uses it only as a sign to the unreached so they can hear the gospel preached in their own language.

But it's not a gift of translation. Interpretation of unknown tongues, you can't use that to translate Yiddish. Then you have to study the language. Weird that they did it anyway.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Very little of the claimed "speaking in tongues" is properly tested nowadays. People just make a youtube video and say "Hey, I was sitting in my bedroom praying and all of a sudden I felt a desire to praise God and out came these words and sounds that were in a language I never learned before! Isn't it wonderful!" and then they are offended when somebody suggests that what they did was speak "gibberish" which any child (or adult) can do if they have a mind to. They think that because they say "I had a desire to praise God" that having such a desire immediately protects their claim from stringent examination. No wonder there is such hostility in these debates. Those making the claim feel like their faith in Jesus is being doubted when their claim is questioned and those who question their claims think that there is some likelihood that Satan is at work and the whole thing is a sham created to deceive "the very elect if it is possible". When the most likely explanation is that they spoke gibberish because they heard all their friends and contemporaries in their meeting doing the same or saw it on youtube and they wanted to be included rather than excluded from all the excitement.

Talking gibberish is not Satanic. It's just a little bit silly. Adults are as prone as children to do silly things in order to be liked and accepted.

 

[MennoSota]

But it's not a gift of translation. Interpretation of unknown tongues, you can't use that to translate Yiddish. Then you have to study the language. Weird that they did it anyway.

The tongues in Acts were always understood languages by those hearing, though the speaker didn't know the language.
In 1 Corinthians 14 there needed to be a someone there to translate to the church body.
Tongues was never an unintelligible utterance, except at the pagan temples in Corinth. It is precisely the cultural paganism that Paul is addressing to the Corinthians. They were bringing in their pagan practices to the church and Paul reprimanded them.
It is weird to me that pentacostals rarely test the spirit of the utterances they are having.

 

[Imalive]

The tongues in Acts were always understood languages by those hearing, though the speaker didn't know the language.
In 1 Corinthians 14 there needed to be a someone there to translate to the church body.
Tongues was never an unintelligible utterance, except at the pagan temples in Corinth. It is precisely the cultural paganism that Paul is addressing to the Corinthians. They were bringing in their pagan practices to the church and Paul reprimanded them.
It is weird to me that pentacostals rarely test the spirit of the utterances they are having.

That was in Acts, it didn't need to be translated. There are different tongues. This were human languages. Paul also says dont speak in tongues in church w out ppl having the gift of interpreting it. Those are unknown tongues he says. You speak to God. Noone understands it. Heavenly language, thats what interpretation is for.

 

[MennoSota]

That was in Acts, it didn't need to be translated. There are different tongues. This were human languages. Paul also says dont speak in tongues in church w out ppl having the gift of interpreting it. Those are unknown tongues he says. You speak to God. Noone understands it. Heavenly language, thats what interpretation is for.

Paul's use of the word "speaking with the tongues of angels" was a bit of sarcasm to the Corinthians who were misusing and abusing tongues. They were bringing in the babel of their former pagan traditions into the church. In the pagan temples people were making public specticals of themselves as an expression of their devotion to the deity of that temple. They were attempting to do the same in Corinth. Paul had to rebuke them and inform them that tongues needed someone who could actually understand what was being said otherwise it was just useless babel and of no edification.
The historical references in the book of Acts are tongues being given by God for very specific reasons. The discussion of tongues in 1 Corinthians is Paul rebuking individuals for abusing and twisting God's gift into something unuseful to anyone.
Finally, to add one more comment, the teaching that tongues is a manifestation of being filled with the Spirit is patently false and unsupported in any text within scripture. Such teaching only serves to inflate an individual's pride rather than bring glory to God. I find the teaching utterly reprihensible.

 

[Josiah]

Some years ago, when I was a teen, I had a friend whose mother was a Pentecostal minister (she also was a self-declared Prophet and more). Anyway, my (admittedly very limited) knowledge of "tongues" was of Catholic charasmatics who tend to be a very separate, secretive group and don't do anything different in worship. Anyway, she told me that God desires to give the Gift of Tongues to everyone and I could easily receive the Gift. She told me to chant some words, "Praise precious Jesus Prince of Peace." I was told to chant those words "with all your heart and soul." Chant them faster and faster. IF my words are sincere enough, if my faith is good enough, God would suddenly grant me this gift and I would be speaking in Tongues. She told me the ONLY way I can know what Tongues is is by actually receiving it - and this was a good way to do that.


Thank you.


- Josiah



.

 

[Imalive]

Paul's use of the word "speaking with the tongues of angels" was a bit of sarcasm to the Corinthians who were misusing and abusing tongues. They were bringing in the babel of their former pagan traditions into the church. In the pagan temples people were making public specticals of themselves as an expression of their devotion to the deity of that temple. They were attempting to do the same in Corinth. Paul had to rebuke them and inform them that tongues needed someone who could actually understand what was being said otherwise it was just useless babel and of no edification.
The historical references in the book of Acts are tongues being given by God for very specific reasons. The discussion of tongues in 1 Corinthians is Paul rebuking individuals for abusing and twisting God's gift into something unuseful to anyone.
Finally, to add one more comment, the teaching that tongues is a manifestation of being filled with the Spirit is patently false and unsupported in any text within scripture. Such teaching only serves to inflate an individual's pride rather than bring glory to God. I find the teaching utterly reprihensible.

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

 

[MennoSota]

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Let us expand the verses to see context. Notice how the Corinthians were abusing tongues and misusing what God intended regarding tongues.

I highly suggest that we NOT emulate the church at Corinth in regard to speaking in tongues. Instead, let the evidence within the book of Acts be your barometer in understanding the gift of tongues as God grants it. What Corinth was doing was an abomination.

What I find fascinating is the human condition that is constantly looking for an experiential stimulus to confirm God's presence rather than accept God's word by faith. Why do Christians gravitate toward experiences rather than just faithfully believing regardless of experience?

1 Corinthians 14:6-22
[6]Dear brothers and sisters, if I should come to you speaking in an unknown language, how would that help you? But if I bring you a revelation or some special knowledge or prophecy or teaching, that will be helpful.
[7]Even lifeless instruments like the flute or the harp must play the notes clearly, or no one will recognize the melody.
[8]And if the bugler doesn’t sound a clear call, how will the soldiers know they are being called to battle?
[9]It’s the same for you. If you speak to people in words they don’t understand, how will they know what you are saying? You might as well be talking into empty space.
[10]There are many different languages in the world, and every language has meaning.
[11]But if I don’t understand a language, I will be a foreigner to someone who speaks it, and the one who speaks it will be a foreigner to me.
[12]And the same is true for you. Since you are so eager to have the special abilities the Spirit gives, seek those that will strengthen the whole church.
[13]So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said.
[14]For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.
[15]Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit, and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand.
[16]For if you praise God only in the spirit, how can those who don’t understand you praise God along with you? How can they join you in giving thanks when they don’t understand what you are saying?
[17]You will be giving thanks very well, but it won’t strengthen the people who hear you.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you.
[19]But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.
[20]Dear brothers and sisters, don’t be childish in your understanding of these things. Be innocent as babies when it comes to evil, but be mature in understanding matters of this kind.
[21]It is written in the Scriptures: “I will speak to my own people *** through strange languages *** and through the lips of foreigners. But even then, they will not listen to me,” *** says the lord.
[22]So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"She sells sea shells down by the sea shore" is a good mantra to get into tongues if you say it fast enough

:smirk:

 

[MennoSota]

"She shells sea shells down by the sea shore" is a good mantra to get into tongues if you say it fast enough

:smirk:

Shama lama ding dong

 

[MoreCoffee]

Shama lama ding dong

I knew a man who "spoke in tongues" this way

"bushandi kiyama yama tikka kiyama oh kiyama"

But he stopped going to meetings and as far as I know became an effective atheist.