False Miracle Workers CRINGE

[Imalive]

Its interesting that Christians who are "into " physical miracles, thinking them commonplace or as proof of their church teachings, all know someone else who says he has seen one happen right in front of him...but the person telling the story never has.

Oh I saw my mom pick up her pencil and one woman had that eye disease cataract. she always came if the service was almost over. she was afraid to get an operation. ploop all of a sudden she could see the letters on my banner. I've seen so many miracles and my aunt called from Australia, I just threw her name in the prayer bucket. With the boy I wasnt there. Had to work so my ex could visit ppl and pray for them.

 

[Albion]

Oh I saw my mom pick up her pencil and one woman had that eye disease cataract. she always came if the service was almost over. she was afraid to get an operation. ploop all of a sudden she could see the letters on my banner.

I don't exactly know what you are describing there or about whom, but these are not necessarily miracles, not like witnessing a new finger grow back after the original one had been cut off.

 

[Imalive]

I don't exactly know what you are describing there or about whom, but these are not necessarily miracles, not like witnessing a new finger grow back after the original one had been cut off.

Oh but that doesnt happen much in the West.

 

[tango]

I understand to that people get riled up even at the church I attend, I saw a crippled wheel chair bound lady that took a few steps and started dancing a little bit... they got out the oils and started rubbing down her legs and my friend kept tapping me on the shoulder saying "look I told you they do miracles here" but I just looked at it as a boost of will and energy, we did pray for her but her legs are so tiny and frail I stood behind her in case she fell.
Its strange to know how magicians were willing to pay Jesus for his miracle powers and today they get paid for false miracles.
Seriously how do these people sleep at night?

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I guess they sleep at night in a very comfortable and very expensive bed, funded by those upon whom they have been preying.

I think part of the problem is that so many people want to see miracles. In a way it's entertainment, people want to see signs and wonders, they listen to the snake oil salesmen that give the impression that signs and wonders should be more or less everyday occurrences, maybe they just want validation that they are backing the right horse. So it's hardly surprising that the charlatans fill in the gaps when God doesn't perform like a puppet on a string.

Of course another part is that many people are at least somewhat uninformed as to just what disabilities actually mean. We all know that wheelchair users can't walk, except it's not as simple as that. Most wheelchair users can walk. They can't walk very steadily and they can't walk very far but most wheelchair users can take at least a couple of steps on their own, even if they are very unsteady steps. So if a charlatan "healer" wanted to pull off a staged "miracle" it's not necessarily very difficult. First off you need a good "time of worship" (meaning half an hour or more of upbeat repetitive music) - this is notionally to get people expectant that God will work but more practically to get them into a state of euphoria so they are less questioning of things. Then wheel out the poor mug in a wheelchair, pray over them loudly, maybe make up some gibberish that people may think is you praying in tongues, then command them to get up and walk. When they do get up and take a few faltering steps the crowd can reasonably be relied upon to go wild with excitement at the "miracle" they just witnessed, the wheelchair user collapses into the arms of the waiting attendants after a few steps, and the repetitive music continues. When it becomes clear the poor schmuck in the wheelchair (who is probably more of a victim in all this than anyone else) can't actually walk they can be blamed for the lack of faith that caused them to "lose their healing".

For good measure there are miracles performed by demonic power, as well as those performed by little more than sleight of hand and trickery.

 

[Andrew]

Its interesting that Christians who are "into " physical miracles, thinking them commonplace or as proof of their church teachings, all know someone else who says he has seen one happen right in front of him...but the person telling the story never has.

I can grow a finger nail

 

[tango]

Its interesting that Christians who are "into " physical miracles, thinking them commonplace or as proof of their church teachings, all know someone else who says he has seen one happen right in front of him...but the person telling the story never has.

One thing I find interesting is the stark contrast between an event like the healing in Acts 3 and many healings we hear about today.

In Acts 3 the man healed when Peter and John commanded him to get up and walk was someone everybody knew. They saw him, they knew him, they knew he was lame and now they could see him walking and leaping and dancing. It would have been very obvious to anyone that something very unusual had just happened.

Compare and contrast to today where we have bodies with very fancy sounding titles (often ending in Ministries or Outreach or some such) with very fine sounding stories of things that happened Somewhere Else, to Someone Else, but never seem to happen here. The ministries almost seem to be trying to validate themselves with some grand story of what happened at THEIR event in some far-flung corner of the world (which was maybe kinda-sorta-something to do with God but the focus is still primarily on the speaker), then some folks start demanding people accept it or explain what else it was, and all the time things don't happen here.

When presented with a story of what might have been a miraculous healing in Equatorial Guinea there's no way I can tell whether it was a genuine work of God, a well placed stooge, a total fabrication, an illusion, a demonic healing or something else. As such the only conclusion I can draw is "I don't know", which is often paired with "and I don't really care" because it makes precisely zero difference to my life or my faith just what actually happened. If the same healing happened in my church on a Sunday morning I'd have enough information to make a more informed judgment, even if the best I could do for now is appreciate that something very unusual actually took place.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I wonder what results we'd get if a double blind statistical study were done on people with serious illnesses and injuries being healed with or without prayer and/or belief in God?

 

[Imalive]

I don't exactly know what you are describing there or about whom, but these are not necessarily miracles, not like witnessing a new finger grow back after the original one had been cut off.

That happens when there's revival.

 

[Albion]

WHAT happens when there is revival?

 

[MoreCoffee]

What exactly is revival? People tell me that Perth had a revival in the 1990s and some tell me that there's a revival at "Riverview church" in recent years but when the Australian Bureau of Statistics census results are checked there's no significant change in the number of people identifying as Christians who attend church more than once a year. Does revival mean that some people get excited about their meetings?

 

[Imalive]

WHAT happens when there is revival?

Limbs growing back. I can't find that on youtube anywhere. Might happen in underground churches far away, but Gods glory has to be there for that to happen. Miracles happen like cancers that disappear now, but limbs growing back... I've seen a video of a new whomb and I know a guy who got a new heart, but that's much easier to believe, cause you don't see it. I only know it happened in Indonesia in the revival and the Azusastreet.

 

[Imalive]

What exactly is revival? People tell me that Perth had a revival in the 1990s and some tell me that there's a revival at "Riverview church" in recent years but when the Australian Bureau of Statistics census results are checked there's no significant change in the number of people identifying as Christians who attend church more than once a year. Does revival mean that some people get excited about their meetings?

They call that revival but that's no revival. Revival is like there was in Wales and the Azusastreet. In 1909 that guy from the Azustreet prophesied that in about 100 years it would happen again, but worldwide.
Now I get why they call it pentecostal. That was really like Acts 2, not what you see today, at least not in first world countries.

 

[Andrew]

One thing I find interesting is the stark contrast between an event like the healing in Acts 3 and many healings we hear about today.

In Acts 3 the man healed when Peter and John commanded him to get up and walk was someone everybody knew. They saw him, they knew him, they knew he was lame and now they could see him walking and leaping and dancing. It would have been very obvious to anyone that something very unusual had just happened.

Compare and contrast to today where we have bodies with very fancy sounding titles (often ending in Ministries or Outreach or some such) with very fine sounding stories of things that happened Somewhere Else, to Someone Else, but never seem to happen here. The ministries almost seem to be trying to validate themselves with some grand story of what happened at THEIR event in some far-flung corner of the world (which was maybe kinda-sorta-something to do with God but the focus is still primarily on the speaker), then some folks start demanding people accept it or explain what else it was, and all the time things don't happen here.

When presented with a story of what might have been a miraculous healing in Equatorial Guinea there's no way I can tell whether it was a genuine work of God, a well placed stooge, a total fabrication, an illusion, a demonic healing or something else. As such the only conclusion I can draw is "I don't know", which is often paired with "and I don't really care" because it makes precisely zero difference to my life or my faith just what actually happened. If the same healing happened in my church on a Sunday morning I'd have enough information to make a more informed judgment, even if the best I could do for now is appreciate that something very unusual actually took place.

I never heard of demonic healing, sounds like an oxymoron could you explain?

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[Andrew]

I wonder what results we'd get if a double blind statistical study were done on people with serious illnesses and injuries being healed with or without prayer and/or belief in God?

People pray for unbelievers

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[MoreCoffee]

People pray for unbelievers

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We do that at every mass. Does that mean that we're in a constant state of revival?

 

[Andrew]

We do that at every mass. Does that mean that we're in a constant state of revival?

I do believe those prayers get answered yes

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[Albion]

Limbs growing back. I can't find that on youtube anywhere. Might happen in underground churches far away, but Gods glory has to be there for that to happen. Miracles happen like cancers that disappear now, but limbs growing back... I've seen a video of a new whomb and I know a guy who got a new heart, but that's much easier to believe, cause you don't see it. I only know it happened in Indonesia in the revival and the Azusastreet.

As I said before, every Pentecostal seems to insist that such things have happened or that someone else has seen it happen, but of course they themselves have not witnessed it. Why is that, do you think?

 

[Andrew]

As I said before, every Pentecostal seems to insist that such things have happened or that someone else has seen it happen, but of course they themselves have not witnessed it. Why is that, do you think?

Im sure if we had more Pentecostals in this forum one would eventually claim a first hand encounter with a miracle but that would then make you the second person lol
God is good but he does ask that we divide truth from fakery lest we be fooled... So here we are

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[Imalive]

As I said before, every Pentecostal seems to insist that such things have happened or that someone else has seen it happen, but of course they themselves have not witnessed it. Why is that, do you think?

Because there's no revival. Why are not ppl healing in my shadow like w Peter? Cuz Peter lived a little bit different than me. Why would ppl lie? They've seen it. My ex's mom saw limbs grow back in the revival in Indonesia when she was a kid. Why me not? Wrong place wrong time.
And why: no faith. Come on we pray for everything except limbs. Plain unbelief. I had 2 collegues, one had cancer, other missed a leg. So who am I gonna ask: can we pray for you? Not the man w the missing leg. Nobody wants to look like an idiot.
One guy here in Holland. He was in the newspapers. A dad shot his 2 kids and himself and then he asked the mother if he could raise her kids up in Jesus Name and the woman got mad and the whole country said he was an unsensitive idiot.
And I think also because it isn't necessary. You don't die or are in horrible pain if you miss a limb. Easier to not care than pray your lungs out and fast.
My managers gf got her arm in the paper destroy machine. More than half her arm gone. If we have revival and God tells me to I will ask. Not now.
Oh that reminds me. There was another christian then at the office and he only was there temporarily. He said to me: you go pray for em. Lol. Thats what the majority thinks. Let someone else do it.

 

[tango]

I never heard of demonic healing, sounds like an oxymoron could you explain?

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It's pretty much what it sounds like, healing by occult power rather than God's power.