Did the ancient Pagan Religions get picked up as 'tradition'?

[hobie]

You know.....


Sometimes I just get TIRED......


For CENTURIES, there has been so much hate among Christians - not so evidently toward Satan or sin, but each other.

For CENTURIES, there have been these "urban myths" that just get perpetuated - ENDLESSLY - with ZERO interest or concern in whether there's an ounce of truth in it. NO ONE asks, "Do you really believe or do this?" No, truth is irrelevant when it comes to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

It just makes me TIRED...



In my Catholic days, I got all the "Catholics worship Mary...... Catholics worship idols..... Catholics removed one of the Ten Commandments.... Catholics think saying the Rosary will get them to heaven..... Catholics think Mary is actually the Savior....oh, the list is LONG. And NEVER did any of these Protestants GIVE A RIP as to whether what they were saying was true (I'm being too harsh, I admit). Now, there ARE legit things were I think the RCC and/or common Catholics are wrong (I left that denomination) but those things are never mentioned.

Then when I became Protestant, I just got the same JUNK from other side. "Protestants think works don't matter." "Protestants think a book with the word Bible on the cover floated down from heaven." "Protestants each appoint self as their own infallible pope." In their defense, "Protestants" are SUCH a diverse group that they probably CAN find an example,but generally it's just "urban myths" - the same ones Catholic have been spreading for 500 years. They complain endlessly about how everyone's always pic'n on them but they sure can dish it out. And I learned, this parrots never give a rip about whether what they are saying has an ounce of truth in it. Never does a Catholic say, "Well, what do YOU believe, what do YOU do - and why?"

It just is so tiring...



There's less of this now than in the past. But NOT because there is more love but because there is more indifference. Relativism has infected all Christianity like a cancer; no one gives a rip about what is true anyone. More important is how you feel.... if it works for you..... "What is truth?" they echo Pilate, and answer, "It doesn't matter." Catholics and Protestants do not agree with each other more now, they just don't care.... and have mutually abandoned the whole idea of truth.



IMO.... coming to a community like THIS is a wonderful opportunity! We can actually TALK!!!!!! Instead, often it's shouting..... the same old, tired, worn sound bites.


Sorry. I really am.


I have work to do.



PS. I once complained about this....and was told "the worse place to be in any such FIGHT is in the middle, in the "no man's" land...... both sides will shoot at you, neither will defend you." Conservative/traditional Lutherans and Anglicans (and many Reformed) are just that. Shot at by both sides. lol




.

Well, my mother grew up Catholic, so I have no problem with the good people, as there are many. But the system of worship is clearly not biblical. When I was young, I went with her to see one of the Cathedrals in her hometown and saw all the 'veneration' and offerings to the 'saints' and rituals, then went up to one of the 'high places', a nearby mountain, were the people were doing basically the same thing to idols and offerings to the 'gods'. I was shocked to find there was not much difference, and they were praying to these 'gods' of stone and wood, not 'venerating' in both instances.

 

[Lamb]

Well, my mother grew up Catholic, so I have no problem with the good people, as there are many. But the system of worship is clearly not biblical. When I was young, I went with her to see one of the Cathedrals in her hometown and saw all the 'veneration' and offerings to the 'saints' and rituals, then went up to one of the 'high places', a nearby mountain, were the people were doing basically the same thing to idols and offerings to the 'gods'. I was shocked to find there was not much difference, and they were praying to these 'gods' of stone and wood, not 'venerating' in both instances.

Was that in Mexico bychance? They don't do that at any of the Catholic churches I've attended in the United States.

 

[JRT]

The influence of pagan beliefs started long before the Roman Catholic Church. All we have to do is carefully examine the evolution of belief in "the devil".

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God yet in Job Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney, an unwelcome character but not an evil one. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

 

[hobie]

Was that in Mexico bychance? They don't do that at any of the Catholic churches I've attended in the United States.

Go to what you would consider a 'third world' country, and I saw it in Europe, especially in Rome, and I even talked to a friend who was a priest in China and he confirmed its the same there. This is the way it was, but has faded in many countries, of course so has belief in many of the 'traditions' the church has.

 

[Andrew]

There are many false claims against the Catholic people but my grandparents never worshipped statues or worshipped Mary or believed in three gods... Now higher up it does get weird, very weird, my great uncle was a Catholic priest and was offered a Bishop position but he turned it down because it was "too much work" (unnecessary work).
I find it odd that the ancient relics of babylon were fairly recently found and low and behold you find the fish hat of Dagon (mentioned in the Apocrypha) worn on the ancient priest, now they are called something else with some strange explanation that makes no sense... anyway the evidence is there.. but again that's higher up aka "inner circle" stuff that the majority of Catholics are not involved with.
I have met many Catholics from Mexico and they are very much superstitious, they connect many mythic and pagan superstitions to Catholic teachings and I believe it gives Catholicism in general a bad wrap... the Lady of Guadalupe for example is synonymous with the Virgin Mary and the church picked it up but it was always just a local myth based on the river lady who searches for her children.. the worship of the dead and statues and sages is another..
Yet many of the Catholic bishops and priest I have known over the years don't get into damning outsiders or damning those who don't participate in it's traditions, they are very approachable and only want to share the gospel by telling good moral metaphors and stories
My 2 cents

 

[Lamb]

Go to what you would consider a 'third world' country, and I saw it in Europe, especially in Rome, and I even talked to a friend who was a priest in China and he confirmed its the same there. This is the way it was, but has faded in many countries, of course so has belief in many of the 'traditions' the church has.

So because of a few rogue Catholic communities you lump them all together? That's overgeneralizing.

 

[hobie]

So because of a few rogue Catholic communities you lump them all together? That's overgeneralizing.

This was the "Roman" church, and force its way into the St Thomas Christians, the new world, and into China and Japan, etc. There was nothing 'rouge' about it. Here are more Pagan doctrines, graven images, festivals and ceremonies coming into the early church. This is a list of the pagan doctrines it brought or allowed to come in in this comparison:

1. The Midsummer festival of the Pagan was held on June 24 of each year.
The Nativity of St. John is held every year on June 24 by Rome.

2. The assumption of Semiramus who became the mother godess of all Pagans.
The assumption of Mary, who became worshipped as the mother of God rather than just a good woman.

3. The mother goddess was given the title, and worshipped as the Queen of Heaven. Jer. 7:18
The Virgin Mary is given the title, and worshipped as the Queen of Heaven by Rome.

4.The "Queen of Heaven" is wrath subduer of the Pagan god.
Mary, "Queen of Heaven" subdues the wrath of Christ and His Father against sinners.

5. Cakes decorated to the goddess with a "+" drawn on it. Jer. 44:17,19
Hot cross buns are baked for Mary in most Roman Catholic churches

6. 40 days fasting before Easter for Tammuz, Ezek. 8:14
The fast of 40 days (Lent) before Easter is doctrine with no scripture to support it.

7. The pagan festival of Easter.
The Roman Catholic church substituted the festival of Easter for the Passover.

8. The resurrection of Tammuz on Easter, and the procession of graven images during Easter holy week
All Roman Catholic churches parade partake in processions of graven images of Jesus, Mary, and Peter, and of the saints during Easter week

9. Veneration of graven images of Baal, Ishtar, Tammuz and lesser gods in the heavens
All Roman Catholic churches venerate graven images of Jesus, Mary, Peter, and of the "lesser" saints in the heavens.

10. The belief of the constant immortality of the soul, and burning place of eternal torment.
Rome teaches the belief of immortality of the soul and a burning place of eternal torment.

11. Pagans believed in the doctrine of purgatory.
Papal Rome teaches the doctrine of purgatory.

12. The belief of the dead visiting the living on a certain day each year. A feast is then held for all the dead on first day of November.(Called all souls day).
Papal Rome teaches they must hold a festival for the dead on all souls day held Nov. 2, and all saints day held Nov. 1 of each year.

13. Burning candles to the gods Jer 11:17; Ezek 8:11.
Papal Rome, has the people burn candles in their "masses".

14. Chants and repetitive prayers. Beaded prayer chains.
Papal Rome uses chants and the beaded prayer chains.(Rome calls the chant "Gregorian chant" and the beaded chained "Rosary").

15. Pagans wear amulets and idols to scare away evil spirits.
Roman Catholicism teaches the wearing of crucifixes and medals as a method of protection.

16. Pagan's would paint the child Tammuz and his mother Semiramus with the glory of the Sun around their heads.
Rome paints the child Jesus and his mother Mary with halos of the Sun around their heads.

19. Pagan's performed infant baptism, and the sprinkling of holy water.
Papal Rome practices infant baptism, as well as the sprinkling of holy water.

20. Pagans taught Necromancy (Talking to the dead).
Papal Rome teaches Mysticism (Novenas/prayers to the dead).

21. The first day of the week kept sacred to honor the sun god Mithra. The name of the day was changed to "SUN"day .
Papal Rome admitted they changed the Sabbath from day 7 to day one in honor of "SUN"day.

22. The title Pontifex Maximus was given to the chief head of the pagan Babylonian system of idolatry.
The title Pontifex Maximus is the main title of the Popes of Rome.

23. Pagan gods (Janus and Cybele) were believed to be holders of the keys to Heaven and Hell.
The pope claims to have the keys of Peter or Heaven and Hell within his clutches.

24. The Pagan high priest king is believed to be the incarnate of the Sun god.
The Pope proclaims to be Jesus Christ in the flesh on Earth......


32. The Solar wheel is a symbol for Baal and was given reverence by the Pagans of old. This wheel can be found carved into ancient as well as modern Buddhist temples and carved into ancient ornamental form representing Osiris.
St Peter's square has largest solar wheel on the planet. ALL Catholic churches have numerous solar wheels in stain glass windows as well as many other areas of the church. Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris sports a very huge one on it's face. There is a great one in ceiling as well as the floor tiles of the monastery of St. Ignatius Loyola in Spain. Numerous paintings, statues, ornaments, and letterheads of all Catholic churches have one or more "solar wheels" depicted upon them. And the ONE WORLD CHURCH that started on June 26, 2000 uses the solar wheel as its official logo on their letterhead....

35. Pagans used the symbols of the "Unicorn, Peacock, and Phoenix" to signify some of their sun gods, and statues of a 'Madonna'..
Symbols of the "Unicorn, Peacock, and Phoenix" used to symbolize the "communion" of Christ are found carved in gold in many churches on doors or chapels as well as the small sanctuary buildings housing the Eucharist or wafer god of Rome. The statues of a "Madonna" can be found in all Pagan churches as well as the Egyptian Madonna, Isis, with her son Horus, or Hindu churches with Divaki and her son Krishna..

It just isn't a few 'rouge' sections, but the church itself.

 

[Romanos]

But you have to admit the fact that the whole system of worship, with the wood and stone idols and the rituals and sacraments etc.. are not from what Christ and the apostles gave to the early church, but are from another origin.

That does not change the fact that here at Christianity Haven, those of the Roman Catholic faith known as Catholics are considered Christian.

 

[hobie]

That does not change the fact that here at Christianity Haven, those of the Roman Catholic faith known as Catholics are considered Christian.

I don't think I would consider them anything else, but you then like any church you have to examine the origins of their doctrines.

 

[Andrew]

I don't think I would consider them anything else, but you then like any church you have to examine the origins of their doctrines.

Just curious, do you watch James Arrabito lectures? He does an interesting slide show on this subject and your points are rather verbatim from his "mark of the beast" film..

 

[hobie]

Just curious, do you watch James Arrabito lectures? He does an interesting slide show on this subject and your points are rather verbatim from his "mark of the beast" film..

No, I don't know him.

 

[atpollard]

7. The pagan festival of Easter.
The Roman Catholic church substituted the festival of Easter for the Passover.

FYI:
Eostre was an Anglo-Saxon mythical figure said to have been the goddess of the sunrise and the spring and the Teutonic goddess of the dawn. The direction of the sunrise, East, is named for her. Eastre is believed to be an ancient word for spring. The Frankish church (Germans who settled in Rome during the fifth century), used the word alba, which means white (the color of the robes worn during the resurrection festival) to describe their celebration of Christ's resurrection. Alba (Latin) also meant sunrise. So when the name of the festival was translated into German, the sunrise meaning, ostern, was selected, likely in error. One theory is that Ostern (related to Eostre = east and Eastre = spring) is the origin of the word Easter.

While pagans celebrated the rites of spring, the Jews celebrated Passover, the anniversary of the day God delivered them out of Egyptian bondage. Pesach is the Hebrew word for Passover. Its position in the Jewish calendar coincidentally corresponds to the beginning of Spring.

 

[Romanos]

This was the "Roman" church, and force its way into the St Thomas Christians, the new world, and into China and Japan, etc. There was nothing 'rouge' about it. Here are more Pagan doctrines, graven images, festivals and ceremonies coming into the early church. This is a list of the pagan doctrines it brought or allowed to come in in this comparison:

1. The Midsummer festival of the Pagan was held on June 24 of each year.
The Nativity of St. John is held every year on June 24 by Rome.

2. The assumption of Semiramus who became the mother godess of all Pagans.
The assumption of Mary, who became worshipped as the mother of God rather than just a good woman.

3. The mother goddess was given the title, and worshipped as the Queen of Heaven. Jer. 7:18
The Virgin Mary is given the title, and worshipped as the Queen of Heaven by Rome.

4.The "Queen of Heaven" is wrath subduer of the Pagan god.
Mary, "Queen of Heaven" subdues the wrath of Christ and His Father against sinners.

5. Cakes decorated to the goddess with a "+" drawn on it. Jer. 44:17,19
Hot cross buns are baked for Mary in most Roman Catholic churches

6. 40 days fasting before Easter for Tammuz, Ezek. 8:14
The fast of 40 days (Lent) before Easter is doctrine with no scripture to support it.

7. The pagan festival of Easter.
The Roman Catholic church substituted the festival of Easter for the Passover.

8. The resurrection of Tammuz on Easter, and the procession of graven images during Easter holy week
All Roman Catholic churches parade partake in processions of graven images of Jesus, Mary, and Peter, and of the saints during Easter week

9. Veneration of graven images of Baal, Ishtar, Tammuz and lesser gods in the heavens
All Roman Catholic churches venerate graven images of Jesus, Mary, Peter, and of the "lesser" saints in the heavens.

10. The belief of the constant immortality of the soul, and burning place of eternal torment.
Rome teaches the belief of immortality of the soul and a burning place of eternal torment.

11. Pagans believed in the doctrine of purgatory.
Papal Rome teaches the doctrine of purgatory.

12. The belief of the dead visiting the living on a certain day each year. A feast is then held for all the dead on first day of November.(Called all souls day).
Papal Rome teaches they must hold a festival for the dead on all souls day held Nov. 2, and all saints day held Nov. 1 of each year.

13. Burning candles to the gods Jer 11:17; Ezek 8:11.
Papal Rome, has the people burn candles in their "masses".

14. Chants and repetitive prayers. Beaded prayer chains.
Papal Rome uses chants and the beaded prayer chains.(Rome calls the chant "Gregorian chant" and the beaded chained "Rosary").

15. Pagans wear amulets and idols to scare away evil spirits.
Roman Catholicism teaches the wearing of crucifixes and medals as a method of protection.

16. Pagan's would paint the child Tammuz and his mother Semiramus with the glory of the Sun around their heads.
Rome paints the child Jesus and his mother Mary with halos of the Sun around their heads.

19. Pagan's performed infant baptism, and the sprinkling of holy water.
Papal Rome practices infant baptism, as well as the sprinkling of holy water.

20. Pagans taught Necromancy (Talking to the dead).
Papal Rome teaches Mysticism (Novenas/prayers to the dead).

21. The first day of the week kept sacred to honor the sun god Mithra. The name of the day was changed to "SUN"day .
Papal Rome admitted they changed the Sabbath from day 7 to day one in honor of "SUN"day.

22. The title Pontifex Maximus was given to the chief head of the pagan Babylonian system of idolatry.
The title Pontifex Maximus is the main title of the Popes of Rome.

23. Pagan gods (Janus and Cybele) were believed to be holders of the keys to Heaven and Hell.
The pope claims to have the keys of Peter or Heaven and Hell within his clutches.

24. The Pagan high priest king is believed to be the incarnate of the Sun god.
The Pope proclaims to be Jesus Christ in the flesh on Earth......


32. The Solar wheel is a symbol for Baal and was given reverence by the Pagans of old. This wheel can be found carved into ancient as well as modern Buddhist temples and carved into ancient ornamental form representing Osiris.
St Peter's square has largest solar wheel on the planet. ALL Catholic churches have numerous solar wheels in stain glass windows as well as many other areas of the church. Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris sports a very huge one on it's face. There is a great one in ceiling as well as the floor tiles of the monastery of St. Ignatius Loyola in Spain. Numerous paintings, statues, ornaments, and letterheads of all Catholic churches have one or more "solar wheels" depicted upon them. And the ONE WORLD CHURCH that started on June 26, 2000 uses the solar wheel as its official logo on their letterhead....

35. Pagans used the symbols of the "Unicorn, Peacock, and Phoenix" to signify some of their sun gods, and statues of a 'Madonna'..
Symbols of the "Unicorn, Peacock, and Phoenix" used to symbolize the "communion" of Christ are found carved in gold in many churches on doors or chapels as well as the small sanctuary buildings housing the Eucharist or wafer god of Rome. The statues of a "Madonna" can be found in all Pagan churches as well as the Egyptian Madonna, Isis, with her son Horus, or Hindu churches with Divaki and her son Krishna..

It just isn't a few 'rouge' sections, but the church itself.

This post serves nothing more than to tear down Catholics and try to pronounce them as pagans.

 

[Andrew]

Romanos is right, if you wish to discuss one of these things you can do so in individual threads but this is a bombardment holistically against the entire Catholic denomination and threads like these will never end well. Even subjects within this thread are typically doomed to get closed down eventually so please remember that we are all Christian first and try to be as fruitful as possible.

 

[George]

I don't think I would consider them anything else, but you then like any church you have to examine the origins of their doctrines.

Is it wrong that they took them and Christianized them?

 

[Lamb]

Is it wrong that they took them and Christianized them?

No. It's not wrong and it doesn't mean that they're still Pagan.

 

[Arsenios]

What a fine word is poppycock.

Poppycock either comes from a Dutch dialect word for “soft poop,” or from the old Dutch expression zo fijn als gemalen poppekak—literally “as fine as powdered doll’s excrement.”

http://mentalfloss.com/article/64162/12-old-timey-ways-saying-nonsense

For once I defer to your vastly superior expertise, Menno!


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Read your history and compare it to scripture, it came after the Roman Empire, it came from within the church, and it changed much of what came from Christ and the Apostles to its own "tradition". Now if you look, the title Pontifex Maximus can be traced way back, all the way back to Babylon. The ancient Babylon Kings served as both king and priest of the pagan Babylonian Mystery religion. As priests, they bore the title "Pontifex Maximus" or "Supreme Pontiff," meaning "supreme pathfinder" or "bridge maker," representing "the path or connection between this life and the next" When Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, the Babylonian pagan religion was maintained, but after a revolt of the priesthood, the priests of Babylon were driven out of Medo-Persia, and established themselves at Pergamum, taking with them their titles and vestures. They continued their reign there as priest-kings of Babylonian paganism.

The pontiff king of Pergamum Attalus III, bequeathed his title to the emperor of Rome in 133 BC and the kingdom of Pergamum merged with the Roman Empire along with what the Bible calls Satan throne and idol worship and its title "Pontifex Maximus".

Revelation 2:12-14King James Version (KJV)
12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Julius Caesar himself held the title, but in the fourth century AD, emperor Gratian refused the title, and in the year 431 AD, the title was taken over by Damascus, bishop of Rome. By this time, the Roman bishops had advanced in political power, and so Bishop Damasus was elected Pontifex Maximus, becoming basically the holder of the office of the pagan Babylonian priest. The bishop converted the pagan temples of Rome into Christian churches and introduced the worship of pagan Babylon with its rites and rituals and pagan sacraments. History has what is considered the "overnight" conversion of pagan Romans to Christianity, which in actuality, the Roman pagans did not convert to Christianity, but rather the Christians allowed it to take over. The bishop Damasus exercised his authority as head of' Babylonian paganism' in Rome, and replaced all the Christian elders with pagan priests and continued what the Romans had done before Christianity, the practice of the pagan Babylonian Mystery religion and it began to spread to all areas of the old Roman Empire.

The present-day college of cardinals with the Pope at the head is identical to the college of pontiffs from Babylon and Ancient pagan Rome with the Pontifex Maximus at the head.

The keys that the Pope wears around his neck are not the keys of Peter. Rather, they date back from Babylonian times, when it was supposed that this representative of God had the power to unlock heaven or hell. All the pomp and ceremony that existed in ancient Babylon was now practiced as Roman Catholic Christianity.

We find much of what happened in a statement about the Pope’s position as the pagan priest who is the Pontifex Maximus:

"The Emperor is no more...but the Pontifex Maximus abides; he is now the Vicar of Christ, offering the old civilisation to the tribes of the North. He converts them to his creed, and they serve him as Father and Judge supreme" William Barry's 'The Papal Monarchy'.

Seems like the priests of Babylon continue in this new guise..

Poppycock, Hogwash, and Phooey!

There is a certain guttural satisfaction in such pronouncements, I say!


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Here is from Edward Gibbons on the pagan religion in Rome.

"From the age of Numa to the reign of Gratian, the Romans preserved the regular succession of the several colleges of the sacerdotal order. ^3 Fifteen Pontiffs exercised their supreme jurisdiction over all things, and persons, that were consecrated to the service of the gods; and the various questions which perpetually arose in a loose and traditionary system, were submitted to the judgment of their holy tribunal Fifteen grave and learned Augurs observed the face of the heavens, and prescribed the actions of heroes, according to the flight of birds. Fifteen keepers of the Sibylline books (their name of Quindecemvirs was derived from their number) occasionally consulted the history of future, and, as it should seem, of contingent, events. Six Vestals devoted their virginity to the guard of the sacred fire, and of the unknown pledges of the duration of Rome; which no mortal had been suffered to behold with impunity. ^4 Seven Epulos prepared the table of the gods, conducted the solemn procession, and regulated the ceremonies of the annual festival. The three Flamens of Jupiter, of Mars, and of Quirinus, were considered as the peculiar ministers of the three most powerful deities, who watched over the fate of Rome and of the universe. The King of the Sacrifices represented the person of Numa, and of his successors, in the religious functions, which could be performed only by royal hands. The confraternities of the Salians, the Lupercals, &c., practised such rites as might extort a smile of contempt from every reasonable man, with a lively confidence of recommending themselves to the favor of the immortal gods. The authority, which the Roman priests had formerly obtained in the counsels of the republic, was gradually abolished by the establishment of monarchy, and the removal of the seat of empire. But the dignity of their sacred character was still protected by the laws, and manners of their country; and they still continued, more especially the college of pontiffs, to exercise in the capital, and sometimes in the provinces, the rights of their ecclesiastical and civil jurisdiction. Their robes of purple, chariotz of state, and sumptuous entertainments, attracted the admiration of the people; and they received, from the consecrated lands, and the public revenue, an ample stipend, which liberally supported the splendor of the priesthood, and all the expenses of the religious worship of the state. As the service of the altar was not incompatible with the command of armies, the Romans, after their consulships and triumphs, aspired to the place of pontiff, or of augur; the seats of Cicero ^5 and Pompey were filled, in the fourth century, by the most illustrious members of the senate; and the dignity of their birth reflected additional splendor on their sacerdotal character. The fifteen priests, who composed the college of pontiffs, enjoyed a more distinguished rank as the companions of their sovereign; and the Christian emperors condescended to accept the robe and ensigns, which were appropriated to the office of supreme pontiff. But when Gratian ascended the throne, more scrupulous or more enlightened, he sternly rejected those profane symbols; ^6 applied to the service of the state, or of the church, the revenues of the priests and vestals; abolished their honors and immunities; and dissolved the ancient fabric of Roman superstition, which was supported by the opinions and habits of eleven hundred years. Paganism was still the constitutional religion of the senate. The hall, or temple, in which they assembled, was adorned by the statue and altar of Victory; ^7 a majestic female standing on a globe, with flowing garments, expanded wings, and a crown of laurel in her outstretched hand. ^8 The senators were sworn on the altar of the goddess to observe the laws of the emperor and of the empire: and a solemn offering of wine and incense was the ordinary prelude of their public deliberations. The removal of this ancient monument was the only injury which Constantius had offered to the superstition of the Romans. The altar of Victory was again restored by Julian, tolerated by Valentinian, and once more banished from the senate by the zeal of Gratian. ^10 But the emperor yet spared the statues of the gods which were exposed to the public veneration: four hundred and twenty-four temples, or chapels, still remained to satisfy the devotion of the people; and in every quarter of Rome the delicacy of the Christians was offended by the fumes of idolatrous sacrifice. "

And yet the statues were turned into 'saints', and the rites and sacraments, and the pagan orders basically renamed and along with the 'vestal virgins' continue to this day, still with the 'supreme pontiff'.

Ah Yes, the pious and holy Edward Gibbons hisshelf!

A true man of God in every respect...

Why, his very shadow passing over them cured the sick, right?

P-H-F I say!


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

History shows that the Pontifex Maximus was the guardian of the Vestal virgins. The Roman Catholic Church has simply named them Nuns instead. Most historians will agree that the idea for the powers of the pope with the College of Cardinals came from the Pagan College of Pontiffs with its Sovereign Pontiff which had no doubt been in Rome from the earliest times, and must have been framed on the order of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. It's also obvious to any historian that while the Catholics have called themselves Christians, they more closely resemble the ancient pagans both in customs and names.

Pope Gregory I (601 AD) said in so many words literally, "We must compromise with the pagans in order to further Christianity."

Poppycock, Hogwash and Phooey, I say!


Arsenios