Did Christ die for them that are perishing ?

[jswauto]

Jesus sends a large group to preach the gospel!

Luke 10:

Jesus Sends Out the Seventy-Two

1After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. 2Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. 3Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. 4Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. 5And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. 6And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. 7And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 8And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: 9And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. 10But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. 12But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

Woe to the Unrepentant

(Matthew 11:20-24)



13Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. 15And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

16He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

The Seventy-Two Return with Joy

17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

 

[brightfame52]

By His Stripes they are healed/ saved !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Sure Peter is writing to believers, that needs be since without believing, their is no evidence that Christ death saved or healed you.

Stripes in this verse goes without saying means His Death it is a Synecdoche, and it effects healing or saving !

The greek word for healed here is iaomai and means:

I.
to cure, heal

II.
to make whole
A.
to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation


Here are verses as it , the word heal pertains to Salvation/ Conversion :

Matt 13:15

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Jn 12:40

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts 28:27

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The english word healed means :

to free from evil; cleanse; purify: to heal the soul.

Also the word saved here Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

The greek word here is sōzō and means:

I.to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
A.
one (from injury or peril)
i.
to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health

So Peter here in 1 Pet 2:24 is saying without question to believers, your conversion to God, your Salvation is the healing effects of His Stripes for you, or His Death for you !

Those Christ died for, His Stripes alone saved them from their sins, its penalty, its power because it effects your conversion to God, and so for this cause, the Gospel is sent to such to inform them of their Salvation, so to them it is the Gospel of their Salvation plain and simple Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The Gospel of ones Salvation is logically sent to those whom Christ's stripes healed or saved, for that is why it is the Gospel of their Salvation ! And they hear it because they have ears to hear Matt 13:15

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Paul said they heard the word of Truth Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The word heard here in Eph 1:13 is the same word for hear in Matt 13:15

But only the Healed one from Christ's Stripes 1 Pet 2:24 shall hear the Gospel of their Salvation to convert them !

1 Pet 2:24 very damaging to the antichrist lie that Christ's death/ stripes alone does not cause ones Salvation, Conversion experience ! 22

 

[jswauto]

Look, they won't give their life to Jesus and they're not getting saved!

Luke 11:

Woes to Pharisees and Experts in Law

(Matthew 23:1-36)



37And as he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat. 38And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner. 39And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. 40Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? 41But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

42But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 43Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. 44Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

45Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. 46And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. 47Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. 48Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. 49Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. 52Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

 

[jswauto]

I give my life to you Lord Jesus!

Luke 12:

Fearing God Alone

(Matthew 10:26-31)



4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. 6Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? 7But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

 

[jswauto]

Turn to the Lord Jesus and be saved!

Luke 13:

A Call to Repentance

(Joel 1:13-20; Amos 5:4-15; Zephaniah 2:1-3)



1There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[jswauto]

Turn to Jesus and escape the fires of hell!

Luke 13:

The Narrow Gate

(Matthew 7:13-14)



22And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

 

[jswauto]

Please send someone to save my family from these fires of hell!

Luke 16:

The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

(John 5:39-47)



19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[brightfame52]

With His Stripes ye are healed !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

This scripture, perhaps more than any other, does inform us of the effects of the Death of Christ alone , for all whom He died, Tasted Death for Heb 2:9 for that is what stripes stand for, His Death, and by that the Inspired Apostle wrote " Ye are Healed " , which in its complete sense means " Ye were saved" ! The word healed here iaomai means:

I.
to cure, heal

II.
to make whole
A.
to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

To Bring about something means:

to produce as an effect; bring about; accomplish; make happen

So its plainly being stated by Inspiration that Christ's Stripes, meaning His Death produced, and effected your Salvation, made you whole !

This cannot be denied without grave and serious consequences ! 22

 

[brightfame52]

With His Stripes ye are healed !2

The healing that is effected of 1 Pet 2:24 has its impetus in the forgiveness of sins, The Psalmist wrote Ps 103:3

3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

Healing follows Forgiveness of sins for it is a Major Benefit of having Christ die for you, its congruous.

Now the healing which accompanies the forgiveness heals our backsliding, or our departure/s from God as stated here Hosea 14: 2-4

2 Take with you words, and turn to the Lord: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

3 Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy.

4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

That word for heal is rapha' = I.to heal, make healthful

Its to heal their backsliding, the word meshubah and means:

faithless, turning back, apostasy

Remember Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Well He heals that going astray, that turning to our own way and again it is declared Vs 5

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

It comes because, He was wounded for Our Transgression, because Our Iniquity was laid upon Him, that produces a healing from faithlessness or unbelief ! Unbelief caused the departure from God Heb 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Thats what Adam and Eve did in the garden because of the serpent !

Back to our text, what prededed the promise to heal the backslididng ? Look at Hos 14:2

2 Take with you words, and turn to the Lord: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Dosent that Look to this Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

And what does Christ do with them after they are laid on Him ? Ps 103:12

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

That word removed here rachaq means:

I.
to be or become far, be or become distant, be removed, go far away
A.
(Qal) to be far, be distant

B.
(Piel) to send far away, extend

C.
(Hiphil)
i.
to make or exhibit distance, be gone far

ii.
to remove, put far away



II.
(Niphal) loose

John the Baptist speaks of it here Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

The words taketh away here mean I.to raise up, elevate, lift up
A.
to raise from the ground, take up: stones

B.
to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand

And the words take away here Hos 14:2

2 Take with you words, and turn to the Lord: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Those words mean also :

to lift, carry, take

The taking away of sin and receiving us graciously speaks to the reconciliation that is effected in the Death of Christ Rom 5:10 !

All for whom Christ has died has a clean slate before God's Law and Justice, and so the vital application of the healing takes effect, which heals our backsliding in adam, or our turning to our own way Isa 53:6. This healing gives us repentance toward God and Faith in Jesus Christ.

God's anger has been turned away ! How so ? By the propitiation of Christ 1 Jn 2:2 and that brings healing 22

 

[brightfame52]

Even as Christ Loved the Church for what purpose ?

Eph 5:25,26,27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Now the Church that Christ Loved and gave Himself for, is a World of Individuals,and He had a purpose to effect in doing it, for it was not for nought or chance that He Loved them and Gave Himself , but it was for the purose of the flollowing results to be accomplished, beginning in Vs 26 with the Hina purpose clause indicator which means :

in order that, so that.

hína (a subordinating conjunction) – for the purpose that (in order that), looking to the aim (intended result) of the verbal idea. 2443 /hína ("for the purpose that") is "the semantically marked (dramatic) way of expressing purpose in Greek (as compared for example to the plain infinitive)" (G. Archer).

That purpose and result being Vs 26

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

This speaks to sanctification or being set apart, it speaks of cleansing. The word for cleanse is the greek word katharizó:

I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.

So Vs 26 plainly tells us what purpose Christ's death effects unto the Church, its sanctification and cleansing by the Blood and Word !

Now listen, if that effect does not come into realization for all the members of His Body the Church, then quite frankly, the Loving it and giving Himself for it, does fail the Divine Purpose !

 

[brightfame52]

The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin !

1 Jn 1:7

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Good News if Christ died for us, shed His Blood for us, if so, the promise is this" The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin !"

Its no ifs, buts or maybes if indeed He shed His Blood for us, even if when we walk without the knowledge of it and walk in darkness to it !

Who is the Us here that the blood of Christ cleanses from ALL SIN ?

Again, its everyone Christ shed His Blood for, it cleanses them from all sin; Its the same blessed Truth taught here Heb 1:3

3 Who[His Son] being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Now before He sat down, it is stated that He, BY HIMSELF purged our sins 22

That word purge in the original katharismos:

I.a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
A.
of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

B.
of levitical purification of women after childbirth

C.
a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

And its the same word found in 1 Jn 1:7

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Here its just in the verb form whereas above its the Noun form !

And this goes to prove, that all for whom He died, shed His Blood in behalf of, His Blood cleansed them from all sin, which legally absolved them from all sin, condemnation, guilt and penalty before God's Law and Justice, therefore by virtue of His Blood alone, they are Justified from all things, and are totally dead to the Law, by the Body of Christ, when this is True, no sin can be imputed, because the strength of sin is out of the Law 1 Cor 15:56

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

This also means that all for whom the Blood was shed must be delivered out of all kinds of death !

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's Covenant Death delivered from death !

Christ's Covenant Death, delivered all for whom He died from/out of death, hell the second death, remember the Covenant Heads words here Rev 1:18

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Also Matt 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9;23:33, hence none for whom Christ died can be cast into hell. His death for them, a Covenant death, and its the blood of the Covenant Zech 9:11

11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

The same blood as here Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament or covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Remission of sins by the Covenant blood is remission of death, for death is but the wages of sin Rom 6:23a

Christ's victorious Covenant Death and Blood hath won for all He died, the Many a abolishment of death, which should bring their immortality to light through the Gospel 2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

That word abolish means to:

I.to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
A.
to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency

B.
to deprive of force, influence, power

Death can no more reign over them Rom 5:21 and hell is but the servant of the second death Rev 20:14

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Mk 9:43

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

None for whom Christ died shall be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death, else the Covenant death of Christ and its accomplishment is a lie Zech 9:11

11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

Job 33:24

Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. 22

 

[brightfame52]

It redeemed those He died for from Unbelief !

By the Cross of Christ, all for whom He died, He redeemed them from unbelief, for unbelief is nothing but a prison for sin. God imprisoned the Elect who sinned in Adam to unbelief, that’s what is stated here Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

This word concluded in the greek is sugkleió and means:

I enclose, shut in, make subject to, to shut together, i.e. enclose

to shut up on all sides, shut up completely;τινα εἰς τινα or τί, so to deliver one up to the power of a person or thing that he is completely shut in, as it were, without means of escape:

Now by nature, because of sin, all God’s People are delivered to the power of satan and by that unbelief.For proof of this we read 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, itis hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Believe not or unbelief, they’re the same, and its satans power granted by God , to hold all men by nature in unbelief. Jesus gives one of the reasons why men do not believe and be saved here Luke 8:12

12 Those by the way side arethey that hear; then cometh the devil,and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

So unbelief is the result of Satan’s, the devils power prevailing over its victim and prisoner !

But by the Cross, all for whom Christ died, it redeems them from Satan’s prison of unbelief 1 Pet 1:18

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers which was in unbelief;


Remember Paul said that in his former conversation as a religous Pharisee, how that he persecuted the Church of God ? He stated that he did it ignorantly in unbelief 1 Tim 1:13

13 Who was before a blasphemer,and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Remember that was his former conversation or manner of life Gal 1:13

For ye have heard of my conversationin time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

At that time he was in unbelief, but the blood of Christ redeems from that manner of life ! Now the word for redeemed in 1 Pet 1:18 is the greek word lutroó :

I release on receipt of ransom; mid: I redeem, release by paying ransom, liberate.

Those whom the blood was shed in behalf of are released, liberated from satans prison of unbelief,

So to say that one Christ died for can possibly die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24, it is to admit failure and defeat to the Redeeming Blood of Christ, it is to give the victory to the devil over Christ’s Cross, its saying that Christ’s Cross Work could not and did not save from that manner of life of unbelief and ignorance as it did Paul 1 Tim 1:13, and that is utter blasphemy and antichrist !

 

[MoreCoffee]

Christ died for all the enemies/unbelievers. Faith is the way that God lets us know about it.

Do you mean "The Faith is the way that God lets us know about it." as in the body of doctrine taught by Christ and believed by his church, or do you mean "A Christian's personal faith in Jesus is the way that God lets us know about it."? If you mean the former then yes I agree, if the latter then I am not so sure that I can agree.

I am reading your post long after it was written, and I am not sure I have a handle on the context properly because I've skipped over many many posts written since my comments in the early pages of this thread.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Bruce - if you read all of brightflame's posts, you will understand that he is proclaiming that Jesus allowed himself to be crucified as a sacrifice for SOME people, not ALL people... that God indeed hates most people, and desires their eternal destruction in hell, as salvation is only made accessible to the Elect, and them exclusively. Brightflame states that this dispensation is by His sovereign will, and actually enhances and confirms Gods holy righteousness.

If you doubt my synopsis of his posts, I suggest you take a bit of time to read them for yourself.

To me, it is an absolutely hideous doctrine, but to each their own...

The doctrine that you described is hideous.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If that's the case, then "all died" [with Him] (2Cor 5:14). And if "all" means all men w/o exception, then everyone must be saved since they died with Him, and this further means "all" will live with Him.

From a Catholic dogmatic standpoint, I affirm that Christ died for all (2 Cor 5:14), but this does not entail universal salvation. The Church teaches that while the redemption is universal in sufficiency, it is not efficacious without free cooperation (CCC 606–618; Trent, Session VI, can. 17). St. Augustine clarifies: “All died in Adam, but not all are made alive in Christ” (De Civitate Dei 13.23). Similarly, St. John Chrysostom notes that “He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves” (Hom. 11 on 2 Cor), implying a moral response, not automatic salvation. Grace is offered to all, but not all accept it (cf. CCC 1996–2001).

 

[MoreCoffee]

I recommend that you guys dont attempt to answer all that is written, but choose a segment that may peek your interest, and we can discuss that portion. Dont feel obligated to respond to the entire thing at once. Thanks

Do you intend your posts to be read or to be skimmed?

 

[Lamb]

Do you mean "The Faith is the way that God lets us know about it." as in the body of doctrine taught by Christ and believed by his church, or do you mean "A Christian's personal faith in Jesus is the way that God lets us know about it."? If you mean the former then yes I agree, if the latter then I am not so sure that I can agree.

I am reading your post long after it was written, and I am not sure I have a handle on the context properly because I've skipped over many many posts written since my comments in the early pages of this thread.

I mean that God uses His word and by grace through faith (a gift given to us by God because His word is alive and active and does not return to Him empty) we believe what is true (that Jesus died and we are forgiven).

 

[MoreCoffee]

I mean that God uses His word and by grace through faith (a gift given to us by God because His word is alive and active and does not return to Him empty) we believe what is true (that Jesus died and we are forgiven).

Would I be right in reading your reply as meaning "God uses the bible and by grace through faith (a gift given to us by God because Jesus Christ is alive and active and does not return to God emptyhanded) we believe what is true (that Jesus died and we are forgiven)."?

 

[Lamb]

Would I be right in reading your reply as meaning "God uses the bible and by grace through faith (a gift given to us by God because Jesus Christ is alive and active and does not return to God emptyhanded) we believe what is true (that Jesus died and we are forgiven)."?

Not really.

There are two ways to mean God's word...one is the scriptures and one is Jesus the Christ. When we are presented with the scriptures, the Holy Spirit works to bring men to faith by grace. Hebrews 4 discusses how God's word is alive and active by first talking about how the good news brought people to believe. The written word is not in conflict with the Savior Jesus.