Communion of the Body of Christ

[Particular]

You have a hard time with words, don't you? No. NO ONE HERE has stated that the teaching of Real Presence is that anything changes into anything.
.

I understand, which is why none of you actually believe in real presence. Real doesn't mean real.

I have already stated that Jesus promises to really be present with us, regardless of whether we are partaking of communion or not. So the spiritual real presence is accepted by all Christians.
But, you are advocating for a mystery and calling it real presence. I reject your view as not real presence at all, but some nebulous belief that says real, but doesn't actually mean real.
Continue to post if you wish. I don't agree with your position and don't acknowledge it as real presence.

 

[Lamb]

I understand, which is why none of you actually believe in real presence. Real doesn't mean real.

I have already stated that Jesus promises to really be present with us, regardless of whether we are partaking of communion or not. So the spiritual real presence is accepted by all Christians.
But, you are advocating for a mystery and calling it real presence. I reject your view as not real presence at all, but some nebulous belief that says real, but doesn't actually mean real.
Continue to post if you wish. I don't agree with your position and don't acknowledge it as real presence.

We've heard this on repeat for many pages now. If you have nothing new to say to support what you believe then maybe it's time you bow out of the discussion since it hasn't been improved by your continued repeat of this type of post.

 

[Particular]

We've heard this on repeat for many pages now. If you have nothing new to say to support what you believe then maybe it's time you bow out of the discussion since it hasn't been improved by your continued repeat of this type of post.

I can say the same thing back to you.
Since no Lutheran can explain how real presence isn't actually real presence, but still can be coined real presence anyway, it seems that you have nothing new to add and it's time for you to bow out of the discussion.
I have given people ample time to show exactly how real presence doesn't actually mean real presence, but still can be called real presence anyway.
Truth is Martin Luther and Melanchthon created their unique version of real presence in the mid-1500s, most likely after Zwingli, so the Lutheran version is likely younger than Zwingli's so called version (I have no idea what Zwingli taught so Josiah's comments about Zwingli mean nothing to me.)

 

[Lamb]

I can say the same thing back to you.
Since no Lutheran can explain how real presence isn't actually real presence, but still can be coined real presence anyway, it seems that you have nothing new to add and it's time for you to bow out of the discussion.
I have given people ample time to show exactly how real presence doesn't actually mean real presence, but still can be called real presence anyway.
Truth is Martin Luther and Melanchthon created their unique version of real presence in the mid-1500s, most likely after Zwingli, so the Lutheran version is likely younger than Zwingli's so called version (I have no idea what Zwingli taught so Josiah's comments about Zwingli mean nothing to me.)

So you're done finally? I know you like to have the last word but c'mon. Time's up.

 

[Particular]

So you're done finally? I know you like to have the last word but c'mon. Time's up.

Close the thread if you wish.
You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. Positions have been provided. We all know where everyone stands and have made our decisions. Tell the mods to close this thread. I'm fine with that if you are.

 

[Lamb]

Close the thread if you wish.
You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. Positions have been provided. We all know where everyone stands and have made our decisions. Tell the mods to close this thread. I'm fine with that if you are.

No, you can just stop replying with the repetitive stuff.

Perhaps someone else would like to jump in on the conversation?

 

[Particular]

No, you can just stop replying with the repetitive stuff.

Perhaps someone else would like to jump in on the conversation?

I believe we can reply as we wish. If I feel I need to repeat then I believe I shall repeat. You do not have to respond. You have that option.

 

[Josiah]

no Lutheran can explain how real presence isn't actually real presence

Read post 380. It has been explained over and over and over - in words any 8 year old is able to fully understand. Over and over again. It is clear you don't read what is posted to you.... or simply have a serious problem with reading. This has gotten beyond absurd.

I realize you know nothing about Real Presence or Transubstantiation or Zwingli's symbolic view. Nor do you care. But the reality that you don't know is not because you've not been told but because you don't care ... or simply have a problem with reading.

You have been requested many times to support your view... and all you can say is "it's OBVIOUS" without ANY evidence of that and to echo the silly ignorance of pagan, unbelieving haters of Christ.

And every time you've been asked to do anything, anything that might help you grow in your understanding you just refuse.

We've TRIED. We've been more than patient and respectful. We've made great effort and spent much time on you. Because we DO care.

You have revealed we've wasted our time, effort and care. At least in regard to you.

It's noted and will be remembered.





.

 

[Particular]

Read post 380. It has been explained over and over and over - in words any 8 year old is able to fully understand. Over and over again. It is clear you don't read what is posted to you.... or simply have a serious problem with reading. This has gotten beyond absurd.

I realize you know nothing about Real Presence or Transubstantiation or Zwingli's symbolic view. Nor do you care. But the reality that you don't know is not because you've not been told but because you don't care ... or simply have a problem with reading.

You have been requested many times to support your view... and all you can say is "it's OBVIOUS" without ANY evidence of that and to echo the silly ignorance of pagan, unbelieving haters of Christ.

And every time you've been asked to do anything, anything that might help you grow in your understanding you just refuse.

I've TRIED. We've more than patient and respectful. We've made great effort and spent much time on you. Because we DO care.

You have revealed we've wasted our time, effort and care. At least in regard to you.

It's noted and will be remembered.





.

Read all my posts to see why I reject your theories. This isn't hard, yet you keep at it.

 

[Arsenios]

If you wish to dump it into the mystery bin, go ahead,
but that doesn't address real presence.

Mystery is the ONLY thing that addresses the fact that

The Blessed and Broken Bread IS His Body...

And the Blessed Wine IS His Blood...

"We hold the Mystery of the Faith in a pure conscience..."

Paul's own words...

You don't believe Christ, so I doubt you will believe Paul either...

The Faith of Christ is the ONLY way to apprehend the Mystery of that Faith...

Which is Christ IN you...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Real presence is very clear.

No it isn't...

The bread really becomes Jesus human flesh.

No it doesn't...

The wine really becomes Jesus human blood.

No it doesn't...

Hence the term: real presence.

No it isn't...

Why people try to twist it into something else where real isn't really real is what is not clear.

You are the only one doing so...


Arsenios

 

[Particular]

It is the ONLY thing that addresses the fact that

The Blessed and Broken Bread IS His Body...

And the Blessed Wine IS His Blood...

"We hold the Mystery of the Faith in a pure conscience..."

Paul's own words...

You don't believe Christ, so I doubt you will believe Paul either...

The Faith of Christ is the ONLY way to apprehend the Mystery of that Faith...

Which is Christ IN you...


Arsenios

Arsenios, what you say here is your church speak.
I take these words of yours to say you eat the real flesh and drink the real blood of Jesus.

The Blessed and Broken Bread IS His Body...
And the Blessed Wine IS His Blood...

Either that or Jesus flesh was made of bread and wine flowed through his veins.
Those are the literal meanings of "is."

 

[Arsenios]

Our tenacious young friend has overlooked the fact that when
Jesus said "Take... Eat... This My Body IS..."
He was doing so with His Own unbroken flesh,
stating it is broken when it is not yet broken...
That consecrated Bread IS His Body -
The Bread is...
Not His meat...
But the Consecrated and Broken Bread itself...
And THAT is a Mystery without any question whatsoever...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Arsenios, what you say here is your church speak.

You are speaking of your own church-speak and of yourself...

I cannot speak for you or you for me...

I take these words of yours to say you eat the real flesh and drink the real blood of Jesus.

Of course you do -

Carnal thinking here is the limit of your understanding...

Either that or Jesus flesh was made of bread and wine flowed through his veins.

That is carnal and fallen human reasoning...

Spiritual things are discerned spiritually...

Those are the literal meanings of "is."

For your mind and its understanding, my young friend, you are correct...

God bless you in your way...


geo

 

[RichWh1]

The body of Christ is the totality of all believers. That is The Body!

 

[Lamb]

The body of Christ is the totality of all believers. That is The Body!

If that was what was referred to in 1 Corinthians 11 then why the severe warnings?

 

[Particular]

You are speaking of your own church-speak and of yourself...

I cannot speak for you or you for me...



Of course you do -

Carnal thinking here is the limit of your understanding...



That is carnal and fallen human reasoning...

Spiritual things are discerned spiritually...



For your mind and its understanding, my young friend, you are correct...

God bless you in your way...


geo

You are wrong in your judgment of me.
Second, you have a false understanding of Jesus words to his disciples.
It is not my intent to move you off the stumbling block of your traditions.

 

[George]

I don’t get why it’s hard to understand real presence. Not being able to believe it almost makes it sound like you deny what Christ can do and where He can be.

 

[Particular]

It's not hard to understand.
Christ is really present with us, always. No need for a wafer or wine.
However, if we wish to remember Christ's atoning sacrifice, we can symbolically remember by eating a piece of bread and drinking a cup of wine/juice to remember as a community of believers.
What doesn't happen is some mystical granting of extra grace and forgiveness just because we eat the bread and drink the wine.
I don't know why it's so hard to accept remembering Christ's atonement in communion.

 

[RichWh1]

If that was what was referred to in 1 Corinthians 11 then why the severe warnings?

In 1 Corinthians 11 Paul wrote that we are to proclaim the Lord’s death, not re-enact that death. The gravity of taking the bread and wine is that Jesus’ blood was poured out for us and we need to be aware of the body that was broken.
Awareness of the body is realizing what had been done for us.