COMMUNION: Does "is" mean "is?" Catholic, Lutheran, Evangelical

[ImaginaryDay2]

State and church were merged as one. Today we have separation of church and state. This is easy to understand.

That makes no sense in context of my reply. Read it again

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

You were cleansed once and for all by his atonement. No need to have Christ die over and over again.

It was explained very well by Lamm that Christ does not die "over and over again", or are you just willfully not reading what's posted in the thread?

 

[MennoSota]

But he clearly changed the meal at the Last Supper. And, BTW he only was baptized once, crucified once, was resurrected once, founded his church once, and only ascended to his Father once, so the idea that he could not have instituted a new ceremony on that occasion which gives himself to his followers and also is a memorial of his death and sacrifice...is not credible.

He changed the Passover lamb to himself in the Sadir meal. He never did a miraculous changing of the bread into his uncooked flesh or the wine into his flowing blood. To consider such a thing is ludicrous.

 

[MennoSota]

Only briefly during the first days of the Reformation. In that same century, members of other Christians faiths were recognized and were prominent in society. No chopping of their heads. Sorry.

Wow, you don't know your history. Ever hear of Bloody Mary?

 

[MennoSota]

Yes but that text says His blood cleanses us. It's not once a cleansing 2000 years ago. His blood still speaks.

The Bible says it is once and for all. Past, present and future.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

He changed the Passover lamb to himself in the Sadir meal. He never did a miraculous changing of the bread into his uncooked flesh or the wine into his flowing blood. To consider such a thing is ludicrous.

"Whoever eats some bread and drinks some juice has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

Oh, wait...

 

[MennoSota]

It was explained very well by Lamm that Christ does not die "over and over again", or are you just willfully not reading what's posted in the thread?

I read it. I find it more disjointed and convoluted than the Roman teaching. No biblical merit.

 

[MennoSota]

"Whoever eats some bread and drinks some juice has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

Oh, wait...

You have just equated redemption and atonement with eating a wafer and drinking a sip of wine. Do you really think that being made alive in Christ and being adopted by God has nothing to do with salvation? You have placed your eternal salvation in your own works and then claimed that Jesus does a mystical miracle when you invoke the Eucharist.
That is an outright anathema gospel that has no place in Christianity.

 

[Albion]

I read it. I find it more disjointed and convoluted than the Roman teaching. No biblical merit.

Than WHAT Roman teaching? We were speaking of the Real Presence, not some other matter (such as the re-sacrificing of Jesus which absolutely no Protestant church believes in).

 

[Albion]

Wow, you don't know your history. Ever hear of Bloody Mary?

If you can prove that Bloody Mary was the ruler of either Sweden or Finland, Ill concede the point to you. :lick:

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

You have just equated redemption and atonement with eating a wafer and drinking a sip of wine. Do you really think that being made alive in Christ and being adopted by God has nothing to do with salvation? You have placed your eternal salvation in your own works and then claimed that Jesus does a mystical miracle when you invoke the Eucharist.
That is an outright anathema gospel that has no place in Christianity.

What I've just done is (mis)quoted scripture. I think it's in the same bible as yours. What do you make of the passage?
And I never said/thought what you've suggested I said/thought.

 

[Lamb]

I read it. I find it more disjointed and convoluted than the Roman teaching. No biblical merit.

You have made zero effort to learn what Lutherans believe and you do not even bother to read carefully any of our replies. It's very discourteous behavior. With more and more of your responses not relating to what is being stated in the thread by any of us it seems you're not wishing to discuss but rather to make a spectacle of yourself.

 

[Imalive]

The Bible says it is once and for all. Past, present and future.

No way. Thats what all those false teachers say like Joseph Prince with their false grace. You don't have to confess your sins cause it's all done away.

1 John 1:9New King James Version (NKJV)

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[MennoSota]

Than WHAT Roman teaching? We were speaking of the Real Presence, not some other matter (such as the re-sacrificing of Jesus which absolutely no Protestant church believes in).

Real presence is what Rome teaches as well.
Blame your denomination for making this more complicated than it is.

 

[Imalive]

1 Peter 1:1-2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

1 John 1:6-9
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

cleanses not cleansed
the other translation says cleanseth: present tense.

Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?

Hebrews 12:24 - And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

 

[MennoSota]

If you can prove that Bloody Mary was the ruler of either Sweden or Finland, Ill concede the point to you. :lick:

LOL, you're a funny person. I can tell you that every Finn had to be registered in the Lutheran church, regardless of whether they believed. I can tell you that the princes who followed Luther killed those who didn't become a part of the Lutheran church.
Separation of Church and State was an Anabaptist viewpoint that didn't fully find root until the United States was formed in 1787.

 

[Josiah]

Separation of Church and State

... has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with your point that we must accept and believe exactly what Scripture says but we must not accept and believe exactly what Scripture says vis-a-vis Holy Communion; it supplies NOTHING to your point that when Jesus said and Paul penned "is" they MEANT "is not" because you have so decided.



.

 

[Albion]

Real presence is what Rome teaches as well.

We all know that...unless it is agreed that Transubstantiation is a version of it that stretches the meaning of "Real Presence" improperly. Either way, this is not the issue. It's your unwillingness or inability to address the issue (Real Presence), preferring to switch off to Sacrifice or something else, that is the problem.

Blame your denomination for making this more complicated than it is.

In other words, I actually understand the issue.

But let me make this easier for you. Every time you are stumped or called out on something ridiculous and indefensible that's been posted, we can always expect to read that our denominations make us say whatever you don't like to read. So, from here on, I will simply take that reply for granted. You just type YD, meaning "your denomination" and we'll all know that you've invoked the whole schpeel. Simple and quick.

 

[MennoSota]

1 Peter 1:1-2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

1 John 1:6-9
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

cleanses not cleansed

Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?

No. It is not a physical sharing. That unity in Christ took place when God adopted us.
Peter is talking to people who are adopted, but also to those who will be adopted. Therefore the word "cleanses" is used.
God is continually sanctifying us (making us more and more in the image of Christ) he is NOT continually saving us.

 

[MennoSota]

You have made zero effort to learn what Lutherans believe and you do not even bother to read carefully any of our replies. It's very discourteous behavior. With more and more of your responses not relating to what is being stated in the thread by any of us it seems you're not wishing to discuss but rather to make a spectacle of yourself.

I cannot wrap my head around a convoluted theory, which you are proposing...this is true.