Church... A word of pagan origin -

[Lamb]

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[Alithis]

[MENTION=252]amadeois[/MENTION] ,
as i was saying

as a stand alone article it is the same as the articled linked to in the op just more comprehensive .
what i like about andre's article is the gentleness with which he broaches the topic with a mind to set free those who have been laden down with a sense of guilt for not attending an organisation .

(i say that as i just wanted to clarify that while its a more comprehensive explanation of the english word church and how it is not even translated fro the original greek word but from a word that was used to usurp the original word and that the motive is shrouded in desire to 'control people " . it does not mean i agree with much else the "agresivechristianity" group may write-though i dont disagree with everything they state . - i dont beleive them to be led by the spirit of God .
but rather by an ideology .they create the very things they seek to avoid .

 

[Josiah]

Here is the correct link:

http://www.aggressivechristianity.net/articles/ecclesia.htm

IMO, we should look to the words of Scripture. What God says in His inscripturated words is what matters...... ANYONE (with a bit of internet knowledge) can post ANYTHING on the website of himself/herself. We should use Scripture as the norm, rule, source

The website you offer (which offers NOTHING by way of credentials - why we should give it any credibility) just states the OBVIOUS that everyone already knows and no one challenges but rather than leaving it there, quickly abandons Scripture and goes on and on and on and on with his own personal, individual OPINIONS with NOTHING to support such as true, all with the premise that his/her personal theories "trump" Scripture, history.... everything. He seems to appoint himself as the Corrector for God, The One Teacher for God, equal to (and seemingly above) Scripture. I think he is a perfect example of what you have warned us against.




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

[MENTION=61]Alithis[/MENTION] and [MENTION=252]amadeois[/MENTION] , If you are concerned that ecclesia ought to be translated as "assembly" rather than as "church" okay. That's one way to translate it. In English the word "church" means

• the assembly of the first born enrolled in heaven
• the body of Christ
• the assembly of professing christians in a locality
• the assembly which meets in a specific house or meeting hall or other building

meanings a, b, and c correspond to ecclesia. Meaning d corresponds to ecclesia modified by various Greek words for house, hall, or other building.

There's nothing pagan about kuriakon doma (house of the Lord) which is the source of the English word Church. The Lord spoken of is the Lord Jesus Christ. The doma [house] is the assembly of Christians. In some cases doma refers to the house, hall, or other building in which the assembly meets.

What's the point of falsely claiming that there is something pagan about the word "church"?

 

[Josiah]

[MENTION=61]Alithis[/MENTION] and [MENTION=252]amadeois[/MENTION] , If you are concerned that ecclesia ought to be translated as "assembly" rather than as "church" okay. That's one way to translate it. In English the word "church" means

• the assembly of the first born enrolled in heaven
• the body of Christ
• the assembly of professing christians in a locality
• the assembly which meets in a specific house or meeting hall or other building

meanings a, b, and c correspond to ecclesia. Meaning d corresponds to ecclesia modified by various Greek words for house, hall, or other building.

There's nothing pagan about kuriakon doma (house of the Lord) which is the source of the English word Church. The Lord spoken of is the Lord Jesus Christ. The doma [house] is the assembly of Christians. In some cases doma refers to the house, hall, or other building in which the assembly meets.

Excellent post.

What's the point of falsely claiming that there is something pagan about the word "church"?

There seems to be a refusal to say; I'm curious why the opening poster keeps evading that.


If "pagan" means non-Christian, then I suppose it could be assumed reasonably (although not proven) that the word "ecclesia" was first used by non-Christians since it is found in classical Greek which pre-dates Christ by some centuries. But then I doubt there are too many words in ANY language (including Hebrew) that an be DOCUMENTED were FIRST used by Christians. And again, so what? What if we can't document that the word was first used by some Christian person? Does that make it wrong for us to use? If so, probably every word found at this website is disallowed.


:dunno:





.

 

[amadeois]

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION]

On your posting #83 you presented your ideas on what I had presented and mentioned several things, 5 to be exact, that you should look back with an OPEN MIND - 360 degrees around- and try to understand that article. It opened up my mind more and I thank them.

Since we all LOVE Jesus, we should love ALL other humans with the same love that Jesus and God has for us, EVERYBODY under His creation.

I believe that everybody that considers himself a Christian should do this. We should even love our enemies and they will be disarmed with our love.

What happens when our beliefs that have been around for over 2,000 years are threatened by new ideas?

We immediately fight back, close our eyes and recoil into a safe place. Why? Whenever we are comfronted with a new idea that we are not familiar with, we become afraid of the unknown and dismiss it as false.

It seems that we do not want to be threatened with these new ideas and concepts. We are acting like the frog that was very happy inside the pot. It started to get warmer and warmer and then it boiled and he was dead.

Is Christianity becoming a frog or toad that is seating very comfortably inside churches seating in our pews and worshipping our God on SUNDAYS?

Here is where I will remind you that the scriptures say that Jesus was resurrected on a day of rest and NOT Sunday.

The church has been doing since over 2,000 years but now things are changing because knowledge is increasing about our scriptures.

If you want to know more about why is not Sunday, visit 3 other threads about The Arguments for Sunday, The Hoax of the Three Days and Three Nights and another one of similar name.

All the discussion were backed up by the scriptures and by the original word of Jesus, but too many people don't want to believe what He said. Very good information that was presented by lovers of the word and we don't have any credentials.

That is one sample that Christianity was wrong for over 2,000 years, there are many other areas that need to be changed. As somebody said it here or on another thread and I have seen it myself, translations from the original languages have been manipulated so as to derail Jesus original intention, His intention of what His church should be.

A loving church like He loves us all.

So my advice is that we should not act like an exclusive organization and not listen to others on what they might say.

We want to be sure that what they say is the TRUTH, so do certain things to check those ideas against the scriptures, the originals because the new ones have been tinted with the Devil's ideas.

DON'T WE WANT TO BE CORRECT?

Act like Jesus and listen.

What to do:

1. Listen
2. Be a Berean
3. Ask God to give you His "WISDOM" so you can understand and COMPREHEND what is being discussed.

FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS.

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[Lamb]

If those "new ideas" you are so happy to toss around are not backed by scripture or warned against by scripture then Christian beware! Don't you agree? Or does it not matter to you? There is a reason some ideas are around for 2,000 years, because they are biblically correct.

It really seems this might just be a game of semantics here.

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION]

On your posting #83 you presented your ideas on what I had presented and mentioned several things, 5 to be exact, that you should look back with an OPEN MIND - 360 degrees around- and try to understand that article. It opened up my mind more and I thank them.

Since we all LOVE Jesus, we should love ALL other humans with the same love that Jesus and God has for us, EVERYBODY under His creation.

I believe that everybody that considers himself a Christian should do this. We should even love our enemies and they will be disarmed with our love.

What happens when our beliefs that have been around for over 2,000 years are threatened by new ideas?

We immediately fight back, close our eyes and recoil into a safe place. Why? Whenever we are comfronted with a new idea that we are not familiar with, we become afraid of the unknown and dismiss it as false.

It seems that we do not want to be threatened with these new ideas and concepts. We are acting like the frog that was very happy inside the pot. It started to get warmer and warmer and then it boiled and he was dead.

Is Christianity becoming a frog or toad that is seating very comfortably inside churches seating in our pews and worshipping our God on SUNDAYS?

Here is where I will remind you that the scriptures say that Jesus was resurrected on a day of rest and NOT Sunday.

The church has been doing since over 2,000 years but now things are changing because knowledge is increasing about our scriptures.

If you want to know more about why is not Sunday, visit 3 other threads about The Arguments for Sunday, The Hoax of the Three Days and Three Nights and another one of similar name.

All the discussion were backed up by the scriptures and by the original word of Jesus, but too many people don't want to believe what He said. Very good information that was presented by lovers of the word and we don't have any credentials.

That is one sample that Christianity was wrong for over 2,000 years, there are many other areas that need to be changed. As somebody said it here or on another thread and I have seen it myself, translations from the original languages have been manipulated so as to derail Jesus original intention, His intention of what His church should be.

A loving church like He loves us all.

So my advice is that we should not act like an exclusive organization and not listen to others on what they might say.

We want to be sure that what they say is the TRUTH, so do certain things to check those ideas against the scriptures, the originals because the new ones have been tinted with the Devil's ideas.

DON'T WE WANT TO BE CORRECT?

Act like Jesus and listen.

What to do:

1. Listen
2. Be a Berean
3. Ask God to give you His "WISDOM" so you can understand and COMPREHEND what is being discussed.

FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

 

[amadeois]

@Lammchen

One question, the same one I asked Josiah and he did not want to commit:

Is Sunday the day that Jesus was resurrected?

Just answer Yes or No.

Very simple.

I'm not trying to going against Christianity but to SHOW you errors that are happening since the time of our fathers.

I love the WORD OF GOD and I want to be correct.

But if you and others are afraid of the waves that are coming, like it happened to the apostles in the boat, I believe Christians are taking the wrong approach.

As I said it before, act like Jesus with love. He listened, passed and then gave them an answer and clarified them with the truth, His truth.

ARE WE AFRAID TO DISCOVER THE ONLY TRUTH?

YES or NO.

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[amadeois]

I meant paused.

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[Josiah]

Try not to hijack your own thread, friend.

 

[amadeois]

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION]

I am not hijacking any threads. You should have said my podtings. I did not start this thread, Alithis did.
You are the one using those words. NOT ME.

I do not want to put anybody down, you will do it yourself with your own actions.

I see that you feel threatened by my postings. Are you keeping your eyes closed because these ideas are different?

I checked on the Internet a writing about what day was Jesus resurrected from the tomb.

This person wrote a long and well presented paper and presented and backed up with passages from the "scriptures", "our scriptures." The things she wrote are not in agreement to what discussed in the 3 threads I mentioned before.

Everybody can believe their own thing. Jesus did not force anybody to follow or believe Him. He did it in a very loving way and still many people don't believe and have changed the meaning of His words.

I STAND CLARIFIED.



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[Josiah]

amadeois -

This thread is about the modern English word "church." It's not about any biblical prohibition on public worship during any specific day of the week. If you want to discuss the whole "Seventh Day" thing, my suggestion - start a thread on that rather than attempting to hijack other ones.

See posts 83 and 85. No, I don't feel "threatened" by your posts, only bewildered. If you think words of pagan origin may not be used - fine; just document that every word you use was first used by a Christian.

You referenced an entirely uncredited website, perhaps with the belief that if somethings on the 'net it therefore is equal or superior to Scripture in truthfulness and authority. I looked at the site.... see what I previously wrote about it. I said nothing about being "threatened" by it.... just wholly unimpressed.

On a personal note, I request that you stop "mentioning" me... it's just clogging up my email and notifications. I come here OFTEN and I'm aware of all posts in threads that I've posted in. Just a friendly, polite REQUEST.


Now, back to the subject of the thread.




.

 

[amadeois]

[MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION]

I believe you do not want to understand my message but that is fine. Is your decision.

So, peace be with you brother.

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[amadeois]

Thank you for allowing me to post here.

I understand what is happening here and that some people feel disturbed by my postings. So be it.

I will refrain from disturbing the peace.

May God bless us all to understand His word.

FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS.


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[Lamb]

Let's get back to the topic now please?

 

[Josiah]

[MENTION=252]amadeois[/MENTION]

amadeois -

This thread is about the modern English word "church." It's not about any biblical prohibition on public worship during any specific day of the week. If you want to discuss the whole "Seventh Day" thing, my suggestion - start a thread on that rather than attempting to hijack other ones.

See posts 83 and 85. No, I don't feel "threatened" by your posts, only bewildered. If you think words of pagan origin may not be used - fine; just document that every word you use was first used by a Christian.

You referenced an entirely uncredited website, perhaps with the belief that if somethings on the 'net it therefore is equal or superior to Scripture in truthfulness and authority. I looked at the site.... see what I previously wrote about it. I said nothing about being "threatened" by it.... just wholly unimpressed.


On a personal note, I request that you stop "mentioning" me... it's just clogging up my email and notifications. I come here OFTEN and I'm aware of all posts in threads that I've posted in. Just a friendly, polite REQUEST.



Now, back to the subject of the thread.


.

I understand what is happening here

I doubt it.

some people feel disturbed by my postings.

None that I know of. Bewildered perhaps, disturbed - not in the least.


But yes, it IS important to address the topic; if you don't know what it is a good hint is to read the title and (if necessary) the opening post.


You are new here.... none of us know you.... it is entirely possible you are simply struggling to communicate in a way that is effective and embraced here. I see that Staff has cut you a LOT of slack, and I rejoice in that. Rather than you feeling frustrated and blaming everyone but you, I repeat my earlier suggestion: PM Lammchen or Tango or George or Mark. If you don't know how, let me know and I'll help you. You will find them extremely kind, embracing and helpful. I sense you have things of value to say... you are just struggling to get them understood. These staff members can be of enormous help to you; I assure you they WANT to be.




Pax Christi



- Josiah

 

[amadeois]

Amen.

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[Alithis]

[MENTION=61]Alithis[/MENTION] and [MENTION=252]amadeois[/MENTION] , If you are concerned that ecclesia ought to be translated as "assembly" rather than as "church" okay. That's one way to translate it. In English the word "church" means

• the assembly of the first born enrolled in heaven
• the body of Christ
• the assembly of professing christians in a locality
• the assembly which meets in a specific house or meeting hall or other building

meanings a, b, and c correspond to ecclesia. Meaning d corresponds to ecclesia modified by various Greek words for house, hall, or other building.

There's nothing pagan about kuriakon doma (house of the Lord) which is the source of the English word Church. The Lord spoken of is the Lord Jesus Christ. The doma [house] is the assembly of Christians. In some cases doma refers to the house, hall, or other building in which the assembly meets.

What's the point of falsely claiming that there is something pagan about the word "church"?

ok so i see you simply wish to ignore the historical point -gee no surprise .

they removed the original word from the text ,, then they inserted another greek word ,then they translated "that" word into english and it has different meaning,differing connotation ,differing emphases

why did they do that ?

 

[Alithis]

IMO, we should look to the words of Scripture. What God says in His inscripturated words is what matters...... ANYONE (with a bit of internet knowledge) can post ANYTHING on the website of himself/herself. We should use Scripture as the norm, rule, source

The website you offer (which offers NOTHING by way of credentials - why we should give it any credibility) just states the OBVIOUS that everyone already knows and no one challenges but rather than leaving it there, quickly abandons Scripture and goes on and on and on and on with his own personal, individual OPINIONS with NOTHING to support such as true, all with the premise that his/her personal theories "trump" Scripture, history.... everything. He seems to appoint himself as the Corrector for God, The One Teacher for God, equal to (and seemingly above) Scripture. I think he is a perfect example of what you have warned us against.




.

he was not offering "the web site ' he was offering the single article i beleive .

the single article about the word "church", its origin and meaning is of interest .
the link to the article in the my OP is not so comprehensive but the same information. the guy writing the article is a christian historian of church history . its just some facts about what word is used where and why .

and it makes a lot of sense in light of the controlling manner of the churched system today -the leadership has been usurped.that system is not led of the Holy Spirit it is led of menkind

 

[Alithis]

Excellent post.







There seems to be a refusal to say; I'm curious why the opening poster keeps evading that.


If "pagan" means non-Christian, then I suppose it could be assumed reasonably (although not proven) that the word "ecclesia" was first used by non-Christians since it is found in classical Greek which pre-dates Christ by some centuries. But then I doubt there are too many words in ANY language (including Hebrew) that an be DOCUMENTED were FIRST used by Christians. And again, so what? What if we can't document that the word was first used by some Christian person? Does that make it wrong for us to use? If so, probably every word found at this website is disallowed.


:dunno:





.

gee i did not reply because i'm on the other side if the world and went to bed lol . -you make hasty assumptions .. lets be straight .. you dont like me .you dont like what i preach .and almost all your interactions with me come from that stance . you dont look at things objectively .- if you did then your only response to the article ,which i think you commented of without first reading it , would need to be none other than .."oh thats interesting . "

the origin of the word which we now pronounce as "church" is not translated from the word that is in the original text of the scriptures ... they removed the original word ..inserted a different greek word and then translated 'that " word .. its pretty simple to see that this was a dishonest thing to do .. as it is done in dishonesty would you say that it was lead of the holy Spirit to do so ...? you cannot as that would be to say the holy Spirit leads men to be dishonest .. and that is impossible