Catholic Eucharistic Miracles

[Faith]

Hi. I was so unprepared for that answer that I had to think on it for awhile before deciding on my reaction!

I'm thinking you might benefit from and also be more at ease with some of the issues we've been discussing if you were to have it as a goal to become knowledgeable concerning the Lutheran doctrines, especially because you already are equipped with the Catholic ones.

Doctrine is more important to Lutherans than is the case with some other Christian groups, and yet there are also serious disagreements between the various Lutheran branches--ELCA, LCMS, WELS, and so on. On the matter of age of the Earth, for example.

I’m LCMS. I often read a LCMS Q & A.

I’ve discussed this with my pastor many times and after trying to reassure me more than a few times he consulted someone who I guess helps and advises pastors. Long story short, he said as LCMS, it’s ok for me to believe in an old earth.

 

[Lamb]

I don’t know enough about Lutheranism to say but I do know they believe the universe is 6,000 to 10,000 years old and I don’t. Then again, Saturn turns out to be much younger than originally thought so, according to some websites (Christian ones) it could be as young as the Bible says.

That is such a trivial thing though! I'd be looking more into what Lutherans and Catholics believe about salvation and then compare to what the bible teaches. That is more important.

 

[Josiah]

I don’t know enough about Lutheranism to say but I do know they believe the universe is 6,000 to 10,000 years old and I don’t. Then again, Saturn turns out to be much younger than originally thought so, according to some websites (Christian ones) it could be as young as the Bible says.

Again, Lutheranism has no dogma on the age of the planet Earth. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

It IS true that many Lutherans have an opinion. And that seems to include you and it's likely this includes your pastor. And it may be that the opinion of your pastor and yourself are not identical. Happens.

I find it very unlikely that you will be denied membership based on your opinion in this regard. And also that you would be excommunicated because of it. The MOST I can image resulting is that IF you teach Sunday School or perhaps Youth Group, you may be requested to not teach as fact that the planet we live on is 4.5 billion years old, you may be asked to simply not voice an opinion on that. Perhaps. Maybe. Probably not.

Friend, no matter what parish you worship with, I guarantee you that some people there will disagree with you and each other on things. Unless you join a church with only one member: you. IMO, if the disagreement is on mandated dogma - that can be a "deal breaker" because you MAY be denied formal membership although welcome to worship there, but it's not dogma (as this subject is not in Lutheranism) then it falls into that area where differences are allowed.

he said as LCMS, it’s ok for me to believe in an old earth.

Which is why I struggle to understand why this is such a big issue you have... why you keep bringing it up. Your own LCMS pastor has told you, it's okay, it's alright, it's not a problem, it's permitted for you to hold to an "old earth" opinion.



.

 

[Albion]

That is such a trivial thing though! I'd be looking more into what Lutherans and Catholics believe about salvation and then compare to what the bible teaches. That is more important.

Indeed it is. It's true that the LCMS officially believes that every last item of doctrine must be affirmed. The smaller ones are supposed to be judged against Scripture just as the bigger ones are. So, when the days of creation as described in Genesis are addressed, this is what happens.

It's also correct to note, though, that not every member or even every pastor thinks it right to be a purist about this.

 

[Faith]

That is such a trivial thing though! I'd be looking more into what Lutherans and Catholics believe about salvation and then compare to what the bible teaches. That is more important.

Going back to the Eucharist, I do THINK I feel the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist during Adoration. It might just be something from what I’ve been taught, combined with what I’ve learned in Catholic forums.

 

[Lamb]

Going back to the Eucharist, I do THINK I feel the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist during Adoration. It might just be something from what I’ve been taught, combined with what I’ve learned in Catholic forums.

Why do you think you need to "feel" Him for His Presence to be true?

 

[Faith]

Why do you think you need to "feel" Him for His Presence to be true?

I don’t know. I guess it’s just based on what I’ve learned over the years as a Catholic?

 

[Lamb]

I don’t know. I guess it’s just based on what I’ve learned over the years as a Catholic?

Our feelings are tainted by sin, so it's best to trust in God's Word as opposed to our feelings. Jesus said This IS my body. This IS my blood. That's how we know He's there.

 

[Faith]

Our feelings are tainted by sin, so it's best to trust in God's Word as opposed to our feelings. Jesus said This IS my body. This IS my blood. That's how we know He's there.

Yes, but then why isn’t he in the Monstrance during Adoration? Or are you saying that He is?

 

[Lamb]

Yes, but then why isn’t he in the Monstrance during Adoration? Or are you saying that He is?

Could you tell me where Jesus said He would be there in the Monstrance during an Adoration? I don't see scripture saying anything about that.

 

[Faith]

Could you tell me where Jesus said He would be there in the Monstrance during an Adoration? I don't see scripture saying anything about that.

There isn‘t. And I don’t know where that belief comes from, Tradition, perhaps? All I know is that since I was little my mom used to tell me Jesus was in the tabernacle and, later, learned about Adoration and Jesus being in the Monstrance, Surely not everything to be believed would be in the Bible. Or maybe I’m wrong. I’m just trying to figure things out.

 

[Faith]

Could you tell me where Jesus said He would be there in the Monstrance during an Adoration? I don't see scripture saying anything about that.

I don’t think there’s anything in Scripture saying that His Presence leaves us after receiving Communion, either.

 

[Albion]

I don’t think there’s anything in Scripture saying that His Presence leaves us after receiving Communion, either.

That would seem to be what Lamb was saying also.

Jesus promised that he'd remain with his people and that the Holy Spirit would be sent as an ongoing guardian of the Church. In other words, God IS present with his people.

The question is whether or not this requires the capturing of a Communion host for display at a later time. You're right that there's no Scriptural basis for such a thing. There's also no argument from Tradition that can be made, and there's no logical reason for this practice either.

 

[Faith]

That would seem to be what Lamb was saying also.

Jesus promised that he'd remain with his people and that the Holy Spirit would be sent as an ongoing guardian of the Church. In other words, God IS present with his people.

The question is whether or not this requires the capturing of a Communion host for display at a later time. You're right that there's no Scriptural basis for such a thing. There's also no argument from Tradition that can be made, and there's no logical reason for this practice either.

With all due respect, if there are any Catholics reading this, they’d debate otherwise. Which is my problem, in a nutshell. One side teaches one thing, the other side teaches another and I don’t know who to believe.

 

[Albion]

With all due respect, if there are any Catholics reading this, they’d debate otherwise.

Of course they would! They'd reflect just exactly what their church has told them and not be open to any other facts or reasoning.

However, you have now been given enough feedback from your friends here, after you asked for that input, that you might not be in the same category.;

Which is my problem, in a nutshell. One side teaches one thing, the other side teaches another and I don’t know who to believe.

I guess we on this side of the debate would be interested to know how our information has impacted you, if at all. We already know that one side teaches one thing and the other side teaches another, but so far, you seem to have kept quiet about your own "take" on what we've been explaining to you.

 

[Faith]

Of course they would! They'd reflect just exactly what their church has told them and not be open to any other facts or reasoning.

However, you have now been given enough feedback from your friends here, after you asked for that input, that you might not be in the same category.;


I guess we on this side of the debate would be interested to know how our information has impacted you, if at all. We already know that one side teaches one thing and the other side teaches another, but so far, you seem to have kept quiet about your own "take" on what we've been explaining to you.

Honestly I’m not sure. I still FEEL as if Jesus is in the tabernacle and monstrance, but that’s what’s been drilled into my head for years So maybe I’m brainwashed. I do pray and read the Bible daily and while I’m in (Lutheran) church I pray and feel the Lords presence,

 

[Lees]

My 2 cents worth.

God meets us where we are at. He knows our heart. Whether we be Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, or whatever, he meets us/believers where we are at.

The first church I belonged to, I later had disageements with concerning their doctrine. But that never stopped God from accepting the worship I gave when I went to Church. It didn't stop Him giving me a sense of His presence at times at these meetings.

If I am going there to meet with God, to worship God and Jesus Christ, He knows it. And He is pleased with it. And over time, I will build and correct my theology, but I know God is always for me.

Lee

 

[RichWh1]

Could you tell me where Jesus said He would be there in the Monstrance during an Adoration? I don't see scripture saying anything about that.

The only quote I know is “Where two or more are gathered together in my name I am with you “ The presence of Jesus is where there is two praying to God in the name of Jesus


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[Lamb]

The only quote I know is “Where two or more are gathered together in my name I am with you “ The presence of Jesus is where there is two praying to God in the name of Jesus


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That's not the same as talking about the Real Presence for the sake of Holy Communion. Jesus gave them the bread to eat and said it was His body. He gave them the wine to drink and said it was His blood. There was a purpose for communion...to eat and drink.

 

[Albion]

That's not the same as talking about the Real Presence for the sake of Holy Communion.

That's right. God being always with the disciples in spirit when they gather doesn't negate the fact of Jesus having created a special means of intimacy between God and his people which is the Lord's Supper. And he is quoted in Scripture as having said as much when he instituted the sacrament we call 'the Eucharist.'