Can you claim the lord Jesus has set you free from sin.. if sin still masters you ?

[Alithis]

Can you claim the lord jesus has set you free from sin.. if sin still masters you ?..

i'd say you can claim you know about him coming to do so, but knowing and believing are two different things .

many attend church because they know about God but the lord Jesus says" only those who obey him ..love him " .

 

[Lamb]

We are saved by grace through faith. Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith and which means we are always a work in progress until die or He returns on Judgment Day. Since we live in sinful human bodies we will still sin and have our own battles that God is helping us to work through.

 

[psalms 91]

Very true

 

[MoreCoffee]

When you stop sinning then you can truthfully claim to have stopped.

 

[Josiah]

Just because sin is no longer our MASTER doesn't mean that ergo the Bible is wrong when it states that all of us sin.

 

[psalms 91]

If someone is honest with themselves it is easy to see that we still sin

 

[Stravinsk]

Can you claim the lord jesus has set you free from sin.. if sin still masters you ?..

i'd say you can claim you know about him coming to do so, but knowing and believing are two different things .

many attend church because they know about God but the lord Jesus says" only those who obey him ..love him " .

I feel this is yet another of your competitive ways to make a distinction between yourself and everyone else insofar as your Christianity, your Spirituality, or whatever you would call it, goes. Some have it worse than others, but to my reckoning it is one of the most ugly things I regularly see in some Christians.

In answer to your question, no. But the question needs to be specific rather than general. If there is an area of one's life where one is knowingly sinning, it is duplicitous to claim to be "set free" from it, while still doing it. But this is between the person and God. The proud hypocrites go around making judgements that they have no business making with respect to individuals and their relationship with, love or lack of it, obedience or lack of it - to - God. The only person who is a Righteous Judge and sees the whole picture of a person's life IS God - not you, not me, and not anyone else.

 

[Alithis]

I feel this is yet another of your competitive ways to make a distinction between yourself and everyone else insofar as your Christianity, your Spirituality, or whatever you would call it, goes. Some have it worse than others, but to my reckoning it is one of the most ugly things I regularly see in some Christians.

In answer to your question, no. But the question needs to be specific rather than general. If there is an area of one's life where one is knowingly sinning, it is duplicitous to claim to be "set free" from it, while still doing it. But this is between the person and God. The proud hypocrites go around making judgements that they have no business making with respect to individuals and their relationship with, love or lack of it, obedience or lack of it - to - God. The only person who is a Righteous Judge and sees the whole picture of a person's life IS God - not you, not me, and not anyone else.

of course it is an uncomfortable topic ..but answer the question..
you wil note thus far no one has answered the actual question.. ..

also no one has even attempted to define the question before avoiding it .

try to remove the personal jibes , and look at the question objectively -i say this to all others as you Stravinsk have at least done that .

(to others i say ) Because i have not asked .. do christians some times mess up and sin ... That is NOT the question ,but it is what people have automatically assumed it to be and leapt in defense of .. ? hmm what is it they are defending exactly are we ever called to defend some perverse "right " to sin .. no we are called to confess.. admit and turn away from it ,cease depart ,not return ,not go back not look back not back slide . these things of course we know .

So , back to the actual Question asked

Can you claim the lord Jesus has set you free from sin.. if sin still masters you ?

if you have two in front of you and ones says go and pick up that small white stone and bring it to me .. and the other says no go and pick up that other stone and bring it to me ..
the one you obey is the one you allow to be your master by your act of obedience ...

the lord jesus said "if you love me you wil keep what the devil or your flesh command you ... ?????????? lol NOPE ..he said if you love me you will keep "my" commands .

for repeating this to the edification of all (for sin destroys and righteousness)is nothing to do wit spiritual superiority but truth .

it challenges the status quo in our lives , goads the conscience .but the conscience can only be goaded by truth when there is something adverse to the truth in us to be goaded by it .

 

[Alithis]

the lord Jesus came for the very purpose to set us free from the power of sin .. so if we remain mastered by sin and subservient to it
can we truly say we are "free" ?,, as one has spoken honestly and said .. NO we cannot say that - and i agree .

the problem that arises on this topic is some people's perception of what is sin . and that varies crazily and i notice ,often in a manner that displays many suffer from a false self condemnation .
and it obscures the topic terribly .
so let's get that out of the way shall we .

we are not speaking of every evil thought or inclination that may drift through heart and mind -yes it is from the hearts intent that the action of "a sin" comes . but if there is no intent of the heart to carry out said thought or unsolicited inclination then both are rejected and we move on, we have not "sinned" . we have been aware of the difference and of the thought or inclination introduced by whatever channel .. devil or flesh . and it is at this point that the accuser leaps in and says ahh you had that evil thought ..and he attempts to condemn.. this is false accusation .no one need accept that lie .
For if you are in Christ jesus and by his spirit in you ,you are made alive unto God by His ever living spirit .so that you have been enabled to walk in obedience to his life giving spirit .
when we listen to and obey him we do not sin indeed when doing so we CANNOT sin .it is impossible to obey sin when in the very act of obeying the holy Spirit . so when the devil or the flesh arises in us some unsolicited evil thought or inclination , we simply reject it ( casting down every thought and imagination and bring it into subjection to the lordship of the holy Spirit within us ..and that is as easy to do s it is to love whom we love .(we all know when your in love it is no effort at all to please the one we love . lol young men will run 10 miles to see a young lady for 5 minutes .then walk back ten miles longing to do so again ) such though and inclination are in the body of flesh but we have been set free from its "power"over us .
thus the thought or inclination no mater how wicked it seems ,is neither sin nor becomes sin and we cannot be condemned by it . for there is no condemnation to those who are IN christ jesus ..(to be in means to be abiding inside his presence who (if we have the Holy Spirit ) is inside us and being obedient to him is never sin. so by rejecting the evil thought or inclination we are being obedient to him and thus ..not sinning . so people need to stop listening to the false accusations of the adversary in that matter .

let me word picture it another way also - a man -an advocate of evil - comes and offers you a some stolen products .. a fantastic deal it seems .. but reject him saying that is wrong .. i refuse to partake .., then a police officer comes up and say "what's going on here ", then lo and behold the devil pops out of the bushes and says to the policeman.. i saw it ..he was conspiring with this man to buy his stolen goods he is evil for speaking with this man throw him in jail .. you see? the accusation is false . it was not your intent to seek out that man nor speak to him.. he came at you unsolicited . you have done no wrong but only acted in righteousness when you perceived the offered deed to be evil and you rejected it .. - it is often at this point that people feel bad as if they sinner becaseu the offer to do so came to them and they let the adversary condemn them about something they neither instigated initiated nor entertained or acted upon..
this is what people often erroneously think "sin " to be, but it is not so ambiguous as that ..it is a typical act of the enemy to make things complicated and confusing like that . - [I may address this aspect more later ]

but sin is when, either the person so desires to do it that they of thier own volition instigate thought on the mater and then both seek to and do act it out .. it began in the heart as master of the heart and came forth into action .. or because the desire to do so is in the heart ,they take hold of every thought and inclination to do so and build upon it to act it out . then- they have sinned .
the unsaved person is enslaved to these desires being dead in spirit but alive in flesh only and thus mastered by flesh and sin... though they may have desire to cease they find they can only cease for a season before it takes them again.it is almost like a rebellion againt there master sin when they atempt to avoid it ,but find themslevs ultimatly unable to do so for a prolonged time -it is this enslaved state of the heart that the lord Jesus has dealt with upon the cross .

neither thought sin nor unsolicited inclination of sin has any power to force that thought or inclination into action once a person has been set free from its power by the blood of the lord Jesus shed upon the cross. and so it is only when we receive that thought or inclination in ,and do not reject it but act upon it in opposition to the holy Spirit that we sin..

So having dealt with the topic a little of what sin is ..( and dispelling some common error in the thoughts of what it is .). we can now go back to the question .

Can you claim the Lord Jesus has set you free from sin , if sin still masters you ?

 

[Alithis]

We are saved by grace through faith. Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith and which means we are always a work in progress until die or He returns on Judgment Day. Since we live in sinful human bodies we will still sin and have our own battles that God is helping us to work through.

so would you then conclude he failed upon the cross and is unable to set us free from the power of sin ..condemning us to a life where we have no choice but to ultimately fall to it ?

the perfecter of our faith is the perfecter of our faith a different topic - but faith is ever being perfected so that we have full faith in what he has accomplished for us and walk accordingly ,that is. walk in the freedom he has gained for us .

 

[Stravinsk]

of course it is an uncomfortable topic ..but answer the question..
you wil note thus far no one has answered the actual question.. ..

also no one has even attempted to define the question before avoiding it .

try to remove the personal jibes , and look at the question objectively -i say this to all others as you Stravinsk have at least done that .

(to others i say ) Because i have not asked .. do christians some times mess up and sin ... That is NOT the question ,but it is what people have automatically assumed it to be and leapt in defense of .. ? hmm what is it they are defending exactly are we ever called to defend some perverse "right " to sin .. no we are called to confess.. admit and turn away from it ,cease depart ,not return ,not go back not look back not back slide . these things of course we know .

So , back to the actualy Question asked

Can you claim the lord Jesus has set you free from sin.. if sin still masters you ?

if you have two in front of you and ones says go and pick up that small white stone and bring it to me .. and the other says no go and pick up that other stone and bring it to me ..
the one you obey is the one you allow to be your master by you act of obedience ...

the lord jesus said "if you love me you wil keep what the devil or your flesh command you ... ?????????? lol NOPE ..he said if you love me you will keep "my" commands .

for repeating this to the edification of all (for sin destroys and righteousness)is nothing to do wit spiritual superiority but truth .

it challenges the status quo in our lives , goads the conscience .but the conscience can only be goaded by truth when there is something adverse to the truth in us to be goaded by it .

I answered the question plainly. It's in my quote. The answer is "no". But the question is too general. People are set free from sin when they repent and turn from it. That requires it being brought to conscious attention and addressed. It is not as if someone accepts Messiah then *poof* - they are set free from, and never sin in their life again - in any area.

 

[Lamb]

so would you then conclude he failed upon the cross and is unable to set us free from the power of sin ..condemning us to a life where we have no choice but to ultimately fall to it ?

the perfecter of our faith is the perfecter of our faith a different topic - but faith is ever being perfected so that we have full faith in what he has accomplished for us and walk accordingly ,that is. walk in the freedom he has gained for us .

The cross is not a failure because I am redeemed. I have His righteousness placed upon me. That's pure freedom.

 

[psalms 91]

so would you then conclude he failed upon the cross and is unable to set us free from the power of sin ..condemning us to a life where we have no choice but to ultimately fall to it ?

the perfecter of our faith is the perfecter of our faith a different topic - but faith is ever being perfected so that we have full faith in what he has accomplished for us and walk accordingly ,that is. walk in the freedom he has gained for us .

Very true but what does it say about those who say they dont sin? Progressive sanctification means we keep moving towards Christ but we never actually quit sinning. We all sin and anyone who says he doesnt is a liar, that according to the word. I also believe 1 john 1:9-10 which is part of what Christ paid for

 

[Alithis]

I answered the question plainly. It's in my quote. The answer is "no". But the question is too general. People are set free from sin when they repent and turn from it. That requires it being brought to conscious attention and addressed. It is not as if someone accepts Messiah then *poof* - they are set free from, and never sin in their life again - in any area.

yes - i acknowledged your reply and gave further definition of the question in my reply to you .. have a closer read .

 

[Alithis]

Very true but what does it say about those who say they dont sin? Progressive sanctification means we keep moving towards Christ but we never actually quit sinning. We all sin and anyone who says he doesnt is a liar, that according to the word. I also believe 1 john 1:9-10 which is part of what Christ paid for

it says what it says .. those who say they don't sin lie ...

and then it says those who continue in the practice of sin .. do not know God nor have seen him .
so if we apply only the verses in singular non contextual form.. we hit a brick wall of apparent contradiction .

we know that can't be the case . so both statements are correct .
so we go back and consider who it is doing the living .. we of our selves and our own natures will sin -we cannot cease to sin
the lord jesus and the nature of his spirit and being is the nature of righteousness and as such he cannot cease from righteousness.

therefore if we are buried with him into his death.. and raised again unto his resurrection and recive the promised Holy Spirit, he lives in us by his spirit and we are made alive in him freed from one master in order to obey the new - we lay down the old man in death and we die every day and live IN the new life of the holy Spirit .. his nature ruling us cannot cease from righteousness ..
as long as we obey the holy Spirit .. it is impossible for us to tak a though or inclination opposed to him and tur it into an action .. we cannot accidently grasp hold of a thought or inclination and then turn it into an action of sin while at the same time obey the holy Spirit and it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to sin thus it is impossible to sin while obeying the holy Spirit .

and since he has set us free from the power of sin.. it has NO POWER over us ..it cannot force us to do that which we will not to do .and we "will" to not do it, because we are so enamored to him who set us free that we desire to please him in our love for him . so if we purposely go and do that which we know displeases him(we speak of unambiguous sin) we are saying to him by our action.. i do not love you enough to obey you ..i will do what "I" will do .. not what you will have me do .

our actions betray the true nature of our heart .

it really is that simple .. it really is NOT complicated .. the victory the lord JEsus won has freed us to choose whom we serve and love compels us to obey GOD .. and that is why he has said .. those who love me will do what i say (keep my commandments and his commands are everything he taught us . and he passes this on saying to the deciples make more deciples and teach them also to OBEY everything i have taught you ... )

we are NEVER to justify sin but work out our salavation .. know if we continue in it we wil perish by its fruits .
repentance is not a singular event it is a contiued oath of the road to salvation the lord jesus has set our feet upon .. a path we are to walk every day .to DIE DAILY to self .

 

[Alithis]

The cross is not a failure because I am redeemed. I have His righteousness placed upon me. That's pure freedom.

freedom implies one was bound up without will to do anything but that imposed by the one whom had you bound
freedom then, means the one to whom you were held captive can no longer impose any actions upon you.

so if you have this true freedom .. what is it that"some claim" compels them beyond thier control (for they imply they have no control which means continued captivity is implicit ) to go and commit sin ?

[pleas refer back to the post defining unambiguous sin (as also defined for us in the ten commandments )]

for instance .. can you see a $100 note unattended in your workplace office (you know it belongs to your work place -you know the rule in finding and reporting the find to register it )
and then "STEAL" it .. can this action be imposed upon you beyond your own will not that you have been set free from the power of sin by what the lord jesus has done on the cross for you. is there any force in the universe that can make you do this ?

the answer is two fold - ONE -if you are not truly redeemed and living in obedience to the Holy Spiirt .. ie - no longer i that lives but christ that lives in me ... then NO there is no force in the universe that can complell that action of sin -note the bolded word for emphasis - "you shall not steal" and because of the nature of christ within you (if he be in you ) the command becomes the proclamation of freedom .." you shall not steal "

before the cross it is the command stating what not to do and proving you a sinner if you do so .. after the cross it is a victorious declaration of what you will now not do ..
IN christ .. you simply shall not do that any more . you shall not steal ..becaseu you are in christ . so if you do you display you are not abiding in christ .

TWO -if you are not in christ and not saved ..yes ..any real practice of the wicked arts wil tel you they can invoke demons and actually cause a person to commit a heinous act of wickedness becaseu they are slaves to the ruler of the spirit of this world . and they wil also tell you they cant do so to an active obedient chrsitian and it makes them so very angry ..but they can have some limited effect and even terrible effect on a disobedient christian who is walking outside the covering of the Holy Spirit by thier disobedient -( its another topic, not a pleasant one though )

 

[George]

so would you then conclude he failed upon the cross and is unable to set us free from the power of sin ..condemning us to a life where we have no choice but to ultimately fall to it ?

the perfecter of our faith is the perfecter of our faith a different topic - but faith is ever being perfected so that we have full faith in what he has accomplished for us and walk accordingly ,that is. walk in the freedom he has gained for us .

Are you serious? I'm sorry but did you really just ask that? If you believe He failed on the cross then that's some scary stuff.

 

[Alithis]

Are you serious? I'm sorry but did you really just ask that? If you believe He failed on the cross then that's some scary stuff.

dont be silly george ..its a rhetorical question lol, not a statement .

its sets up the question few want to face .
if the lord jesus has , by his death on the cross and his victory over sin and death , set us free from sin and the deaths power over us .. then why are people so accepting of continued sin in their life and say .."oh well we all do it , as if there is nothing we can do about it ". as if it continues to have some power over us that we are incapable of controlling ?

please refer to the earlier post in regard to "what is sin"

 

[MoreCoffee]

dont be silly george ..its a rhetorical question lol, not a statement .

its sets up the question few want to face .
if the lord jesus has , by his death on the cross and his victory over sin and death , set us free from sin and the deaths power over us .. then why are people so accepting of continued sin in their life and say .."oh well we all do it , as if there is nothing we can do about it ". as if it continues to have some power over us that we are incapable of controlling ?

please refer to the earlier post in regard to "what is sin"

The only folk I've met who are dismissive of their own sins are the ones who loudly proclaim that once they are saved they are always saved and cannot lose their heavenly reward no matter what they think, say, or do.

 

[Lamb]

."oh well we all do it , as if there is nothing we can do about it ".\ [/I]

We do all sin still. I've seen you sin here countless amount of times on this board so not even YOU are perfect. Yet because of Christ, God sees us as perfect.

No one is saying that we don't want to live by God's law and try not to sin. We are saying that we acknowledge our sinfulness and confess them to the Lord and we are assured that we have forgiveness because of the cross.