Can babies be conscious of their baptism?

[Albion]

No one is righteous apart from Christ. We ALL need to be covered under His righteousness...even infants.

That's very true. All men are born in sin (and so are apart from Christ); it's not just a matter of what we do.

 

[Albion]

This is simply a parent making a vow.

No, it's not. That is only one part of what baptizing an infant does or means.

 

[Andrew]

No one is righteous apart from Christ. We ALL need to be covered under His righteousness...even infants.

I don't have kids but if I did what could stop me from baptising my own child?

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[Albion]

I don't have kids but if I did what could stop me from baptising my own child?

Technically, nothing. However, it is a communal event and that is why it's normally done before the whole congregation. Plus you'd have to know enough to do it correctly. And of course, the child would have nothing to show anyone or point to as evidence of having been baptized if he/she went to join a church, etc.

But in emergencies--in hospitals, for example--nurses and others do perform baptisms and the churches accept them as valid even though a minister didn't do them.

 

[Lamb]

This is simply a parent making a vow. Water is unnecessary for such a vow.
The problem is...that is not what is taught in the concept of baptismal regeneration.
The concept is:
1) Infant baptism saves the child.
2) Confirmation solidifies the baptism as a means of grace being given by God.
It's a circular argument that ultimately begs the question.
What can be ascertained is that grace is not involved in the ceremonies.

A parent making a vow...yes, God the Father making a vow that He will deliver upon His promises He makes in baptism. In Baptism HE gives the child faith. In baptism He washes away sin and clothes that babe in the righteousness of Christ. In baptism HE gives the gift of the Holy Spirit. Isn't that an amazing parent to demand nothing of the child?

 

[Lamb]

I don't have kids but if I did what could stop me from baptising my own child?

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Some parents do in the case of an emergency. Parents trust that God who has given promises about baptism will not be a liar!

Mostly, if the child is healthy, parents will wait to have a baptism done in front of a congregation because as the body of Christ it's about community and not individuals.

 

[Andrew]

Technically, nothing. However, it is a communal event and that is why it's normally done before the whole congregation. Plus you'd have to know enough to do it correctly. And of course, the child would have nothing to show anyone or point to as evidence of having been baptized if he/she went to join a church, etc.

But in emergencies--in hospitals, for example--nurses and others do perform baptisms and the churches accept them as valid even though a minister didn't do them.

I was searching the net and there is a term "child dedication" do you know what it is?
Anyway, there is no age accountability to baptism that I am aware of so... a debate about it is a mystery to me. I say infant baptism edifies the parent but it is also helpful for the infant for future reference, baptism is required and im not arguing that, I don't see much of a will of the individual but of the parents will which is Gods will... now im going in circles...
God wills it so be it for he wishes all be saved... lol I am beside myself for the moment.

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[Lamb]

I was searching the net and there is a term "child dedication" do you know what it is?
Anyway, there is no age accountability to baptism that I am aware of so... a debate about it is a mystery to me. I say infant baptism edifies the parent but it is also helpful for the infant for future reference, baptism is required and im not arguing that, I don't see much of a will of the individual but of the parents will which is Gods will... now im going in circles...
God wills it so be it for he wishes all be saved... lol I am beside myself for the moment.

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Your initial post that I had copied from the other thread addressed the consciousness of the baby...as if it was dependent somehow on the infant accomplishing something before God can do something in baptism. That's not true.

Everyone is in need of the Savior. The Jews were all about community and not individualism as you see today in the churches! When they were told to repent and "be baptized" which is a passive term meaning something happens to us...they were concerned for their children. So the verse continues in Acts 2:39 "This promise is for you and your children."

 

[MennoSota]

No, it's not. That is only one part of what baptizing an infant does or means.

I just quoted your own words...

 

[MennoSota]

A parent making a vow...yes, God the Father making a vow that He will deliver upon His promises He makes in baptism. In Baptism HE gives the child faith. In baptism He washes away sin and clothes that babe in the righteousness of Christ. In baptism HE gives the gift of the Holy Spirit. Isn't that an amazing parent to demand nothing of the child?

Quote the passage where God says he will give a child the gift of faith if parents baptize their infants.
Where is the vow that God makes to these parents so that he becomes obligated?

 

[Lamb]

Quote the passage where God says he will give a child the gift of faith if parents baptize their infants.
Where is the vow that God makes to these parents so that he becomes obligated?

Acts 2:38-39 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

In baptism we receive the Holy Spirit...can you receive Him without being given faith to receive? The promise is there in baptism because of the Holy Spirit being given. It's a promise God makes and isn't a liar.

 

[Lamb]

Do you think God demanded that babies needed understanding before being passed over because of the blood of the lamb on Passover?

 

[MennoSota]

Acts 2:38-39 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

In baptism we receive the Holy Spirit...can you receive Him without being given faith to receive? The promise is there in baptism because of the Holy Spirit being given. It's a promise God makes and isn't a liar.

Hmmm...I suppose you think the context of Acts 2 fits your supposition...otherwise you wouldn't have quoted it.
I suggest that you have misused these verses entirely and thus created a false prooftext.
In this case the context bears out the fact that your argument is false.
Do you have any other verses that actually teach baptismal regeneration of infants?

 

[MennoSota]

Do you think God demanded that babies needed understanding before being passed over because of the blood of the lamb on Passover?

It's an irrelevant question regarding infant baptism as there is no correlation.
God made a direct command to Israel while they were slaves in Egypt as He brought judgment upon Egypt.
Where does God make a direct command to the Church to baptize their infant children as He brings destruction on non-Christians who hold us in slavery?
You're grasping at straws.

 

[Andrew]

Your initial post that I had copied from the other thread addressed the consciousness of the baby...as if it was dependent somehow on the infant accomplishing something before God can do something in baptism. That's not true.

Everyone is in need of the Savior. The Jews were all about community and not individualism as you see today in the churches! When they were told to repent and "be baptized" which is a passive term meaning something happens to us...they were concerned for their children. So the verse continues in Acts 2:39 "This promise is for you and your children."

When the apostles said to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ it was urgent because they were already adults, so for anyone after that such as an infant it's just as urgent and meaningful. Correct?
Because I will agree with that, whether the baby is aware or not doesn't really change the fact, it WILL eventually bring them to Christ as being initiated (so to speak) into the Body of Christ... it's not something one will be unaware of as they grow and mature and come to terms with.
And if one wasn't baptised as a child but has been called to God it is just as urgent, and if one wishes to be baptised as an adult because another scripture supports baptism in the name of Jesus and feels this is more correct they can do that also, Pentecostals do this and I pray it's not because of Oneness officially but because such as in my case I simply lost touch and wanted a rememberable experience as an adult... so being baptised again in Jesus name actually improved my relationship. As symbolic as it was it manifested real results in my personal attitude and pursuit of clean living, not that I wasnt already saved by the infant baptism, but it was like a remembrance of the first baptism... make sense? I hope so lol. Im with you tho on the infant baptism in the end, its urgent to get baptised and whether or not you remember it as a child (you dont) you will know of it later on, kind of like birth, i dont remember it but I was told that I was born once ☺ and then again (this one I remember)
This thread was directed towards an opinion I had and still do, I do not believe that a baby knows what the heck was going on when it was being baptised lol

 

[atpollard]

Childhood amnesia, also called infantile amnesia, is the inability of adults to retrieve episodic memories (memories of situations or events) before the age of 2–4 years, as well as the period before age 10 of which adults retain fewer memories than might otherwise be expected given the passage of time. The development of a cognitive self is also thought by some to have an effect on encoding and storing early memories.

Personally, I think that it would be nice for the child to remember his baptism as an adult.

 

[Albion]

This is why the older churches have Confirmation. It is a renewal of the Baptismal vows that were made in the person's name by sponsors, an opportunity to affirm them personally as an older person, to receive another gift of grace, and (although the person is already considered to be a member of Christs church in a spiritual sense) to be welcomed--by the bishop personally--as a full member of the visible church and the local congregation.

 

[Andrew]

This is why the traditionalist churches have Confirmation. It is a renewal of the Baptismal vows that were made in the person's name by sponsors, an opportunity to affirm them personally, to receive another gift of grace, and although the person is already considered to be a member of Christs church in a spiritual sense, it is when he is made, by the bishop in person, a regular member of the visible church and the local congregation.

I was confirmed but I didn't feel the experience, it wasn't much of a marker for me nor was the infant birth. I was a devil of a kid and my parents and also the priest had a hell of a time pushing me through the process lol but in retrospect I very much appreciate it. Nothing makes sense until it does make sense, it makes sense now but it was confusing then, make sense?
If the Apostles said it was urgent then it's urgent, better sooner than later and Albion you already know the fit I will throw if someone tells me that deceased non baptised children are in hell... may God extend his grace and mercy because I do not believe that because they weren't sprinkled on the head with water that the line was drawn.
I say that the non baptised child that Jesus sat down in the midst of the congregation was accepted as worthy in the eyes of the Lord as Jesus himself implied.


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[Albion]

I was searching the net and there is a term "child dedication" do you know what it is?

In some churches which do not baptize infants (such as the Baptists ), a practice has developed by which the baby and parents have a ceremony in the church in which the child is consecrated to God with some language to that effect. It is similar in appearance to a baptism except, obviously, no actual baptizing. I dont know when it originated.

Anyway, there is no age accountability to baptism that I am aware of so... a debate about it is a mystery to me.

Well, there certainly is, and we read posts here all the time talking about it. It is not a specific age like 6 or 15 or anything firm, but if those churches that say that an infant cannot be baptized because the child cannot comprehend enough to make a personal commitment to Christ, they make a mockery of their own theory when they turn around and baptize 8 or 9 year olds--which many, if not all, of those churches do--because no kid of that age comprehends faith, grace, morals, etc. like an adult can. For them, it is a matter of saying the words and knowing that Jesus loves us, etc. but nothing that would qualify as a conversion experience.

 

[Andrew]

In some churches which do not baptize infants (such as the Baptists ), a practice has developed by which the baby and parents have a ceremony in the church in which the child is consecrated to God with some language to that effect. It is similar in appearance to a baptism except, obviously, no actual baptizing. I dont know when it originated.



Well, there certainly is, and we read posts here all the time talking about it. It is not a specific age like 6 or 15 or anything firm, but if those churches that say that an infant cannot be baptized because the child cannot comprehend enough to make a personal commitment to Christ, they make a mockery of their own theory when they turn around and baptize 8 or 9 year olds--which many, if not all, of those churches do--because no kid of that age comprehends faith, grace, morals, etc. like an adult can. For them, it is a matter of saying the words and knowing that Jesus loves us, etc. but nothing that would qualify as a conversion experience.

I still stand by my belief that children are worthy like Jesus said, maybe baptism was made for adults such as when John baptised Jesus (both aged at around 30)

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