Anglican origins, claims, theology.

[MoreCoffee]

Don't pout or try to divert. We can discuss Anglicanism on a thread that is about Anglicanism. This one is not.

Okay, we can discuss Anglicanism. Started by Henry VIII when he wanted a second wife and his obsequious bishops aided him. The second wife didn't work out as he wanted. There followed another four wives.

 

[MennoSota]

 

[MoreCoffee]

There's a rhyme for the wives ... Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced beheaded, survived.

 

[Albion]

Okay, we can discuss Anglicanism. Started by Henry VIII when he wanted a second wife and his obsequious bishops aided him. The second wife didn't work out as he wanted. There followed another four wives.

OK. Let's start.

The church was not started by Henry VIII. It dates from probably the first century, possibly the second. Even your own church stated in four Medieval church councils that it was the oldest church in the Gentile world.

And here is an interesting observation that I don't hear people make very often...Henry is nothing in Anglican thinking. That's not at all like Luther is to Lutherans, Calvin to the Reformed, Joseph Smith to Mormons, Ellen G. White to Adventists, John Wesley to Methodists, and a legion of canonized saints to the various Catholic churches (as we see in the posts of yourself and Arsenios).






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[MennoSota]

OK. Let's start.

The church was not started by Henry VIII. It dates from probably the first century, possibly the second. Even your own church stated in four Medieval church councils that it was the oldest church in the Gentile world.

And here is an interesting observation that I don't hear people make very often...Henry is nothing in Anglican thinking. That's not at all like Luther is to Lutherans, Calvin to the Reformed, Joseph Smith to Mormons, Ellen G. White to Adventists, John Wesley to Methodists, and a legion of canonized saints to the various Catholic churches (as we see in the posts of yourself and Arsenios).






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The Church of England started in the 1st century? Documentation?
Or...are they off-shoots of the original church...the Baptists...

 

[Albion]

The Church of England started in the 1st century? Documentation?

Wow. The Venerable Bede wrote on it, the Catholic Church attested to it as was noted already. History records British bishops as delegates to the Council of Arles in the early 4th century. Magna Carta makes mention of it. Even the London Olympics of a few years ago had a reenactment of the bringing of the faith to Western Britain as part of the Opening Ceremonies.

 

[MennoSota]

Wow. The Venerable Bede wrote on it, the Catholic Church attested to it as was noted already. History records British bishops as delegates to the Council of Arles in the early 4th century. Magna Carta makes mention of it. Even the London Olympics of a few years ago had a reenactment of the bringing of the faith to Western Britain as part of the Opening Ceremonies.

There were churches in England. They had Elders. That doesn't make them the denomination called the Anglican Church. The Anglos didn't settle in Britain until the 5th Century.

 

[Albion]

There were churches in England. They had Elders. That doesn't make them the denomination called the Anglican Church. The *Anglos didn't settle in Britain until the 5th Century.

Oh my. You must have missed a lot of history along the way. Just read and learn now, then.

And by the way, this thread is not a discussion of the Anabaptist movement or its particular version of history.



*"Anglos" ROFLOL

 

[MennoSota]

Oh my. You must have missed a lot of history along the way. Just read and learn now, then.

And by the way, this thread is not a discussion of the Anabaptist movement or its particular version of history.



*"Anglos" ROFLOL

You don't answer and don't provide any documentation. Perhaps you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Josiah]

Some points....


1. The English Reformation began for non-theological reasons and thus was very different than that of the "Evangelicals" (Lutherans and Reformed).


2. King Henry VIII was HISTORICALLY correct on one issue: Since the beginning of the first denomination, the Roman Church, in 311 (created of, for and by the Roman Empire), denominations have largely been TIED to the national civil state, often headed by such. Folks forget, the Roman Church was not only begun by Rome but every one of the true Ecumenical Councils was called by the Caesar and chaired by the Caesar. Once the Western Empire "fell" there was a LONG "war" for secular power between kings and bishops - and at times, they were "in bed." The bishop of the city of Rome's rule over lands other than the Pope's lands historically could be seen as problematic. This was an age of Church-State. Henry just "called" the pope on it. I don't agree with it, but he DID have a historic point.


3. At first, the Anglican church was essential Roman Catholic in teaching, just not in power: the King ruled England (and the church in England) rather than the Pope trying to rule the church in England and England.


4. But the influence of Lutherans and even more of Calvinists became important... and en masse, English Catholics ceased being Catholic in their theology. Lead by the various kings and queens, "back and forth" between Catholic and Protestant (in a not-so-nice way)... things eventually "settled" into something quite unique with the "Thirty Nine Articles." The great majority of Anglicans (in the USA usually called Episcopalians) consider themselves PROTESTANT in teaching and theology but (Like Lutherans) often look and sound pretty Catholic (lol) - keeping a lot of Catholic customs and pieties - but it is quite "broad" and so we can find very Evangelical and "low" Anglicans on one end, and very "Anglo-Catholics" and "high" Anglicans on the other. The Anglican Communion is perhaps the most successful Protestant denomination in the ability to keep political unity amide much diversity. In both teaching and practice, Anglicanism is a unique blend of Catholic, Lutheran and Reformed....


5. Just FYI, Anglicans are the largest Protestant faith community with about 85 million members, followed by Lutherans with about 80 million.



The theology of the Anglican Communion is defined by "The Thirty Nine Articles of 1562" and is printed below in following posts.



Pax Christi



- Josiah



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[Josiah]

The "Thirty-Nine Articles of the Anglican Church"


Article I: Of Faith in the Holy Trinity

There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the Maker, and Preserver of all things both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three Persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Article II: Of the Word or Son of God, which was made very Man

The Son, which is the Word of the Father, begotten from everlasting of the Father, the very and eternal God, and of one substance with the Father, took Man's nature in the womb of the blessed Virgin, of her substance: so that two whole and perfect Natures, that is to say, the Godhead and Manhood, were joined together in one Person, never to be divided, whereof is one Christ, very God, and very Man; who truly suffered, was crucified, dead, and buried, to reconcile His Father to us, and to be a sacrifice, not only for original guilt, but also for all actual sins of men.


Article III: Of the going down of Christ into Hell

As Christ died for us, and was buried, so also is it to be believed, that he went down into Hell.


Article IV: Of the Resurrection of Christ

Christ did truly rise again from death, and took again his body, with flesh, bones, and all things appertaining to the perfection of Man's nature; wherewith he ascended into Heaven, and there sitteth, until he return to judge all Men at the last day.


Article V: Of the Holy Ghost

The Holy Ghost, proceeding from the Father and the Son, is of one substance, majesty, and glory, with the Father and the Son, very and eternal God.


Article VI: Of the Sufficiency of the holy Scriptures for salvation

Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the holy Scripture, we do understand those Canonical books of the Old and New Testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church.

Of the Names and Number of the canonical Books
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
The First Book of Samuel
The Second Book of Samuel
The First Book of Kings
The Second Book of Kings The First Book of Chronicles
The Second Book of Chronicles
The First Book of Esdras
The Second Book of Esdras
The Book of Esther
The Book of Job
The Psalms
The Proverbs
Ecclesiastes or Preacher
Cantica, or Songs of Solomon
Four Prophets the greater
Twelve Prophets the less

And the other books (as Hierome saith) the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine; such are these following:

The Third Book of Esdras
The Fourth Book of Esdras
The Book of Tobias
The Book of Judith
The rest of the Book of Esther
The Book of Wisdom
Jesus the Son of Sirach Baruch the Prophet
The Song of the Three Children
The Story of Susanna
Of Bel and the Dragon
The Prayer of Manasses
The First Book of Maccabees
The Second Book of Maccabees

All the Books of the New Testament, as they are commonly received, we do receive, and account them canonical.


Article VII: Of the Old Testament

The Old Testament is not contrary to the New: for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to Mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and Man, being both God and Man. Wherefore there are not to be heard, which feign that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the Law given from God by Moses, as touching Ceremonies and Rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the Civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet, notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral.


Article VIII: Of the Three Creeds

The Three Creeds, Nicene Creed, Athanasius's Creed, and that which is commonly called the Apostles' Creed, ought thoroughly to be received and believed: for they may be proved by most certain warrants of holy Scripture.


Article IX: Of Original or Birth-Sin

Original Sin standeth not in the following of Adam, (as the Pelagians do vainly talk), but it is the fault and corruption of the Nature of every man, that naturally is ingendered of the offspring of Adam; whereby man is very far gone from original righteousness, and is of his own nature inclined to evil, so that the flesh lusteth always contrary to the spirit; and therefore in every person born into this world, it deserveth God's wrath and damnation. And this infection of nature doth remain, yea, in them that are regenerated; whereby the lust of the flesh, called in Greek, phronema sarkos, which some do expound the wisdom, some sensuality, some the affection, some the desire, of the flesh, is not subject to the Law of God. And although there is no condemnation for them that believe and are baptized, yet the Apostle doth confess, that concupiscence and lust hath of itself the nature of sin.
Article X: Of Free-Will

The condition of Man after the fall of Adam is such, that he cannot turn and prepare himself, by his own natural strength and good works, to faith, and calling upon God: Wherefore we have no power to do good works pleasant and acceptable to God, without the grace of God by Christ preventing us, that we may have a good will, and working with us, when we have that good will.
Article XI: Of the Justification of Man

We are accounted righteous before God, only for the merit of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith, and not for our own works or deservings: Wherefore, that we are justified by Faith only is a most wholesome Doctrine, and very full of comfort, as more largely is expressed in the Homily of Justification.
Article XII: Of Good Works

Albeit that Good Works, which are the fruits of Faith, and follow after Justification, cannot put away our sins, and endure the severity of God's Judgement; yet are they pleasing and acceptable to God in Christ, and do spring out necessarily of a true and lively Faith; insomuch that by them a lively Faith may be as evidently known as a tree discerned by the fruit.


Continues in next post...


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[Josiah]

... continued from above...


Article X: Of Free-Will

The condition of Man after the fall of Adam is such, that he cannot turn and prepare himself, by his own natural strength and good works, to faith, and calling upon God: Wherefore we have no power to do good works pleasant and acceptable to God, without the grace of God by Christ preventing us, that we may have a good will, and working with us, when we have that good will.


Article XI: Of the Justification of Man

We are accounted righteous before God, only for the merit of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith, and not for our own works or deservings: Wherefore, that we are justified by Faith only is a most wholesome Doctrine, and very full of comfort, as more largely is expressed in the Homily of Justification.


Article XII: Of Good Works

Albeit that Good Works, which are the fruits of Faith, and follow after Justification, cannot put away our sins, and endure the severity of God's Judgement; yet are they pleasing and acceptable to God in Christ, and do spring out necessarily of a true and lively Faith; insomuch that by them a lively Faith may be as evidently known as a tree discerned by the fruit.

Article XIII: Of Works before Justification

Works done before the grace of Christ, and the Inspiration of his Spirit, are not pleasant to God, forasmuch as they spring not of faith in Jesus Christ, neither do they make men meet to receive grace, or (as the School-authors say) deserve grace of congruity: yea, rather, for that they are not done as God hath willed and commanded them to be done, we doubt not but they have the nature of sin.


Article XIV: Of Works of Supererogation

Voluntary Works besides, over, and above, God's Commandments, which they call Works of Supererogation, cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety: for by them men do declare, that they do not only render unto God as much as they are bound to do, but that they do more for his sake, than of bounden duty is required: whereas Christ saith plainly, When ye have done all that are commanded to you, say, We are unprofitable servants.


Article XV: Of Christ alone without Sin

Christ in the truth of our nature was made like unto us in all things, sin only except, from which he was clearly void, both in his flesh, and in his spirit. He came to be the Lamb without spot, who, by sacrifice of himself once made, should take away the sins of the world, and sin, as Saint John saith, was not in him. But all we the rest, although baptized, and born again in Christ, yet offend in many things; and if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Article XVI: Of Sin after Baptism

Not every deadly sin willingly commited after Baptism is sin against the Holy Ghost, and unpardonable. Wherefore the grant of repentance is not to be denied to such as fall into sin after Baptism. After we have received the Holy Ghost, we may depart from grace given, and fall into sin, and by the grace of God we may arise again, and amend our lives. And therefore they are to be condemned, which say, thay can no more sin as long as they live here, or deny the place of forgiveness to such as truly repent.


Article XVII: Of Predestination and Election

Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity.

As the godly consideration of Predestination, and our Election in Christ, is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons, and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh, and their earthly members, and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: So, for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God's Predestination, is a most dangerous downfal, whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation, or into wretchlessness of most unclean living, no less perilous than desperation.

Furthermore, we must receive God's promises in such wise, as they be generally set forth to us in holy Scripture: and, in our doings, that Will of God is to be followed, which we have expressly declared unto us in the Word of God.


Article XVIII: Of obtaining eternal Salvation only by the Name of Christ

They also are to be had accursed that presume to say, That every man shall be saved by the Law or Sect which he professeth, so that he be diligent to frame his life according to that Law, and the light of Nature. For holy Scripture doth set out unto us only the Name of Jesus Christ, whereby men must be saved.


Article XIX: Of the Church

The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful men, in the which the pure Word of God is preached, and the Sacraments be duly ministered according to Christ's ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same.

As the Church of Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch have erred: so also the Church of Rome hath erred, not only in their living and manner of Ceremonies, but also in matters of Faith.


Article XX: Of the Authority of the Church

The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: And yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain anything contrary to God's Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of Salvation.


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[Josiah]

continued from above...


Article XXI: Of the Authority of General Councils

General Councils may not be gathered together without the commandment and will of Princes. And when they be gathered together, (forasmuch as they be an assembly of men, whereof all be not governed with the Spirit and Word of God,) they may err, and sometimes have erred, even in things pertaining unto God. Wherefore things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor authority, unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy Scripture.


Article XXII: Of Purgatory

The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping, and Adoration as well of Images as of Reliques, and also invocation of Saints, is a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.


Article XXIII: Of Ministering in the Congregation

It is not lawful for any man to take upon him the office of publick preaching, or ministering the Sacraments in the Congregation, before he be lawfully called, and sent to execute the same. And those we ought to judge lawfully called and sent, which be chosen and called to this work by men who have publick authority given unto them in the Congregation, to call and send Ministers into the Lord's vineyard.


Article XXIV: Of speaking in the Congregation in such a tongue as the people understandeth

It is a thing plainly repugnant to the Word of God, and the custom of the Primitive Church, to have publick Prayer in the Church, or to minister the Sacraments in a tongue not understanded of the people.


Article XXV: Of the Sacraments

Sacraments ordained of Christ be not only badges or tokens of Christian men's profession, but rather they be certain sure witnesses, and effectual signs of grace, and God's good will towards us, by the which he doth work invisibly in us, and doth not only quicken, but also strengthen and confirm our Faith in him.

There are two Sacraments ordained of Christ our Lord in the Gospel, that is to say, Baptism, and the Supper of the Lord.

Those five commonly called Sacraments, that is to say, Confirmation, Penance, Orders, Matrimony, and extreme Unction, are not to be counted for Sacraments of the Gospel, being such as have grown partly of the corrupt following of the Apostles, partly are states of life allowed in the Scriptures; but yet have not like nature of Sacraments with Baptism, and the Lord's Supper, for that they have not any visible sign or ceremony ordained of God.

The Sacraments were not ordained of Christ to be gazed upon, or to be carried about, but that we should duly use them. And in such only as worthily receive the same have they a wholesome effect or operation: but they that receive them unworthily purchase to themselves damnation, as Saint Paul saith.


Article XXVI: Of the Unworthiness of the Ministers, which hinders not the effect of the Sacrament

Although in the visible Church the evil be ever mingled with the good, and sometimes the evil have chief authority in the Ministration of the Word and Sacraments, yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name, but in Christ's, and do minister by his commission and authority, we may use their Ministry, both in hearing the Word of God, and in the receiving of the Sacraments. Neither is the effect of Christ's ordinance taken away by their wickedness, nor the grace of God's gifts diminished from such as by faith and rightly do receive the Sacraments ministered unto them; which be effectual, because of Christ's institution and promise, although they be ministered by evil men.

Nevertheless it appertaineth to the discipline of the Church, that inquiry be made of evil Ministers, and that they be accused by those that have knowledge of their offences; and finally being found guilty, by just judgement be deposed.

Article XXVII: Of Baptism

Baptism is not only a sign of profession, and mark of difference, whereby Christian men are discerned from others that be not christened, but is also a sign of Regeneration or new Birth, whereby, as by an instrument, they that receive Baptism rightly are grafted into the Church; the promises of the forgiveness of sin, and of our adoption to be the sons of God by the Holy Ghost, are visibly signed and sealed; Faith is confirmed, and Grace increased by virtue of prayer unto God. The Baptism of young Children is in any wise to be retained in the Church, as most agreeable with the institution of Christ.


Article XXVIII: Of the Lord's Supper

The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another; but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.

Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.

The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper is Faith.

The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper was not by Christ's ordinance reserved, carried about, lifted up, or worshipped.


Article XXIX: Of the Wicked which do not eat the Body of Christ in the use of the Lord's Supper

The Wicked, and such as be void of a lively faith, although they do carnally and visibly press with their teeth (as Saint Augustine saith) the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ, yet in no wise are they partakers of Christ: but rather, to their condemnation, do eat and drink the sign or Sacrament of so great a thing.


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[Josiah]

continued from above...


Article XXX: Of both kinds

The Cup of the Lord is not to be denied to the Lay-people; for both the parts of the Lord's Sacrament, by Christ's ordinance and commandment, ought to be ministered to all Christian men alike.


Article XXXI: Of the one Oblation of Christ finished upon the Cross

The Offering of Christ once made is that perfect redemption, propitiation, and satisfaction, for all the sins of the whole world, both original and actual; and there is none other satisfaction for sin, but that alone. Wherefore the sacrifices of Masses, in the which it was commonly said, that the Priest did offer Christ for the quick and the dead, to have remission of pain or guilt, were blasphemous fables, and dangerous deceits.


Article XXXII: Of the Marriage of Priests

Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, are not commanded by God's Law, either to vow the estate of single life, or to abstain from marriage: therefore it is lawful for them, as for all other Christian men, to marry at their own discretion, as they shall judge the same to serve better to godliness.


Article XXXIII: Of Excommunicated Persons, how they are to be avoided

That person which by open denunciation of the Church is rightly cut off from the unity of the Church, and excummunicated, ought to be taken of the whole multitude of the faithful, as an Heathen and Publican, until he be openly reconciled by penance, and received into the Church by a Judge that hath authority thereunto.


Article XXXIV: Of the Traditions of the Church

It is not necessary that Traditions and Ceremonies be in all places one, and utterly like; for at all times they have been divers, and may be changed according to the diversities of countries, times, and men's manners, so that nothing be ordained against God's Word. Whosoever through his private judgement, willingly and purposely, doth openly break the traditions and ceremonies of the Church, which be not repugnant to the Word of God, and be ordained and approved by common authority, ought to be rebuked openly, (that others may fear to do the like,) as he that offendeth against the common order of the Church, and hurteth the authority of the Magistrate, and woundeth the consciences of the weak brethren.

Every particular or national Church hath authority to ordain, change, and abolish, ceremonies or rites of the Church ordained only by man's authority, so that all things be done to edifying.


Article XXXV: Of Homilies

The second Book of Homilies, the several titles whereof we have joined under this Article, doth contain a godly and wholesome Doctrine, and necessary for these times, as doth the former Book of Homilies, which were set forth in the time of Edward the Sixth; and therefore we judge them to be read in Churches by the Ministers, diligently and distinctly, that they may be understanded of the people.

Of the Names of the Homilies

Of the right Use of the Church.
Against peril of Idolatry.
Of the repairing and keeping clean of Churches.
Of good Works: first of Fasting.
Against Gluttony and Drunkenness.
Against Excess of Apparel.
Of Prayer.
Of the Place and Time of Prayer.
That Common Prayers and Sacraments ought to be ministered in a known tongue.
Of the reverent estimation of God's Word.
Of Alms-doing.
Of the Nativity of Christ.
Of the Passion of Christ.
Of the Resurrection of Christ.
Of the worthy receiving of the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ.
Of the Gifts of the Holy Ghost.
For the Rogation-days.
Of the State of Matrimony.
Of Repentance.
Against Idleness.
Against Rebellion.

Article XXXVI: Of Consecration of Bishops and Ministers

The Book of Consecration of Archbishops and Bishops, and Ordering of Priests and Deacons, lately set forth in the time of Edward the Sixth, and confirmed at the same time by authority of Parliament, doth contain all things necessary to such Consecration and Ordering: neither hath it any thing, that of itself is superstitious or ungodly. And therefore whosoever are consecrated or ordered according to the Rites of that Book, since the second year of the forenamed King Edward unto this time, or hereafter shall be consecrated or ordered according to the same Rites; we decree all such to be rightly, orderly, and lawfully consecrated or ordered.


Article XXXVII: Of the Civil Magistrates

The Queen's Majesty hath the chief power in this Realm of England, and other her Dominions, unto whom the chief Government of all Estates of this Realm, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Civil, in all causes doth appertain, and is not, nor ought to be, subject to any foreign Jurisdiction.

Where we attribute to the Queen's Majesty the chief government, by which Titles we understand the minds of some slanderous folks to be offended; we give not to our Princes the ministering either of God's Word, or of the Sacraments, the which thing the Injunctions also lately set forth by Elizabeth our Queen doth most plainly testify; but only that prerogative, which we see to have been given always to all godly Princes in holy Scriptures by God himself; that is, that they should rule all estates and degrees committed to their charge by God, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Temporal, and restrain with the civil sword the stubborn and evildoers.

The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of England.

The Laws of the Realm may punish Christian men with death, for heinous and grievous offences.

It is lawful for Christian men, at the commandment of the Magistrate, to wear weapons, and serve in the wars.


Article XXXVIII: Of Christian men's Goods, which are not common

The Riches and Goods of Christians are not common, as touching the right, title, and possession of the same, as certain Anabaptists do falsely boast. Notwithstanding, every man ought, of such things as he possesseth, liberally to give alms to the poor, according to his ability.


Article XXXIX: Of a Christian man's Oath

As we confess that vain and rash Swearing is forbidden Christian men by our Lord Jesus Christ, and James his Apostle, so we judge, that Christian Religion doth not prohibit, but that a man may swear when the Magistrate requireth, in a cause of faith and charity, so it be done according to the Prophet's teaching, in justice, judgement, and truth.


Here ends the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England ("Anglican" "Episcopal")



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[Josiah]

Regarding the 39 Articals above....

They are considered "living" and so interpretations/applications vary. They SOUND more Calvinist than Anglicanism actually is (simply because of where Anglicanism was in it's birthing process in 1562). But they do reveal the 'blend" that it is... and do show the obvious Protestant characteristic.




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[MoreCoffee]

It is interesting to see Albion's take on what the "Church of England" is and when he alleged it came into being.

MennoSota doesn't accept Albion's view.

Josiah doesn't accept Albion's view either.

I think Albion is playing with words. There was a church in England fairly early. It was Catholic and "Roman" but it had influences from the Irish after the Roman Empire fell and it developed its own liturgical tradition which was different from the liturgical forms in use in mainland western Europe. Later the English liturgy was brought into a degree of conformity with the Liturgy as it existed in parts of France and other places in Europe. All of these things happened while the English Church was Catholic and "Roman".

 

[Albion]

It is interesting to see Albion's take on what the "Church of England" is and when he alleged it came into being.

MennoSota doesn't accept Albion's view.

Josiah doesn't accept Albion's view either.

I think Albion is playing with words. There was a church in England fairly early. It was Catholic and "Roman" but it had influences from the Irish after the Roman Empire fell and it developed its own liturgical tradition which was different from the liturgical forms in use in mainland western Europe. Later the English liturgy was brought into a degree of conformity with the Liturgy as it existed in parts of France and other places in Europe. All of these things happened while the English Church was Catholic and "Roman".

And I am the only Anglican here. How interesting it is that you think everyone else would know more about the church than the Anglican.

None of your account is accurate, nor are you any better informed than Mennosota who thinks the Anglican church came from the "Anglos" who invaded the British Isles and, I guess, drove out all the Hispanic residents! However, yours is the standard Romish line, so of course you accept it uncritically, not unlike your acceptance of its claim that the Eastern Orthodox separated from the Church of Rome rather than the other way around. Gotta keep up that "one true church" that has "never changed a doctrine" stuff, no matter what.

The church in Britain was not planted by missionaries from Rome and, according to historians, functioned well for its first centuries while having no knowledge of the doings of the Roman church. It is a fact of history that when Augustine was later sent there by the Pope in order to convert the inhabitants to Christianity, he was greeted by representatives of the British church the Pope thought did not exist.

For most of its history, the church was independent, a fact that is referred to in the first article of the Magna Carta. In the 13th century, however, the church accepted Papal oversight, but then under Henry reasserted its historic status as an autocephalous national church. Henry nevertheless remained a Catholic for the rest of his life and was never declared a heretic by the Papal church.


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[MennoSota]

It is interesting to see Albion's take on what the "Church of England" is and when he alleged it came into being.

MennoSota doesn't accept Albion's view.

Josiah doesn't accept Albion's view either.

I think Albion is playing with words. There was a church in England fairly early. It was Catholic and "Roman" but it had influences from the Irish after the Roman Empire fell and it developed its own liturgical tradition which was different from the liturgical forms in use in mainland western Europe. Later the English liturgy was brought into a degree of conformity with the Liturgy as it existed in parts of France and other places in Europe. All of these things happened while the English Church was Catholic and "Roman".

You should notice in that dialogue that the church at Rome is seen as a State run church established after 300 CE. Before that it was merely another church, like Ephesus, Antioch, Thessalonika, Corinth, etc...

 

[MoreCoffee]

You should notice in that dialogue that the church at Rome is seen as a State run church established after 300 CE. Before that it was merely another church, like Ephesus, Antioch, Thessalonika, Corinth, etc...

The church in Rome is still "merely another [local] church" similar to Ephesus, Antioch, Jerusalem, Corinth, and Thessalonika. Rome is just a city. It has no special supernatural exceptionalism.

 

[MennoSota]

The church in Rome is still "merely another [local] church" similar to Ephesus, Antioch, Jerusalem, Corinth, and Thessalonika. Rome is just a city. It has no special supernatural exceptionalism.

So you aren't a Roman Catholic, but you are a part of the Vatican denomination?