Addictions

[Frankj]

And I've seen numerous cases of people that have detoxed and later on relapsed. You can't be honest and state you know of no such thing.

But now I know where you are going with this. No, I am not demon possessed. Oppressed, of course, what Christian isn't?

Where does demon possession come into it?

To quote Walt Kelly, or Pogo, I have met the enemy and he is me.

If you are possessed of a demon, that demon that possesses you is yourself.

If you never put the blame for your problems outside of yourself you can solve them, it you put them outside of yourself you cannot.

It's called personal responsibility, you have to own your own problems before you can solve them.

 

[MrE]

Where does demon possession come into it?

To quote Walt Kelly, or Pogo, I have met the enemy and he is me.

If you are possessed of a demon, that demon that possesses you is yourself.

If you never put the blame for your problems outside of yourself you can solve them, it you put them outside of yourself you cannot.

It's called personal responsibility, you have to own your own problems before you can solve them.

Frankj-- clearly, you are not helping.

 

[Can't think of a name]

I've heard that before, but also positive experiences-- and there are many testimonies of successful escape from the clutches of addiction through programs including, or like-- AA. What they call "a higher power" -we identify as God and know as our Father. My point is that it is important and a benefit to have folks alongside you. One thing that they all have in common, is a story of sobriety that is inexorably linked to struggle in a life-long sense. The pull toward the bottle remains years beyond 'having quit' drink. This is a fact, and I suppose a consequence- that you will have to accomodate.

It might help also to substitute something, an activity for example, for alcohol. Trade booze for exercise-- the benefits are enormous, and beyond measure is the reality that when you exercise and become more physically fit, your body and mind will work with you to reject the negative effects of alcohol. You won't want to drink and trade those fitness benefits for the detrimental harm and illness of booze.

Thank you.

 

[Can't think of a name]

Where does demon possession come into it?

To quote Walt Kelly, or Pogo, I have met the enemy and he is me.

If you are possessed of a demon, that demon that possesses you is yourself.

If you never put the blame for your problems outside of yourself you can solve them, it you put them outside of yourself you cannot.

It's called personal responsibility, you have to own your own problems before you can solve them.

Nope, wrong again!

Not what I said or meant. But you know that already.

 

[Frankj]

Frankj-- clearly, you are not helping.

That's your judgment of me.

 

[Can't think of a name]

That's your judgment of me.

I think you brought it on yourself. Clearly you misunderstand plain English.

 

[MrE]

That's your judgment of me.

You say it like it's a bad thing. I offer you---- a mirror.


Back to the conversation at hand--- This thread is terrific, and just the kind of interaction I hope for in these Forum settings. I was saddened to think that you @Can't think of a name were about to depart within the first day or two of arrival. I tire quickly of the placid conversations that often occur on "Christian" sites, full of platitudes and attitudes, of perhaps well-meaning souls, with hollow answers that rarely satisfy honest and true seekers.

 

[Can't think of a name]

You say it like it's a bad thing. I offer you---- a mirror.


Back to the conversation at hand--- This thread is terrific, and just the kind of interaction I hope for in these Forum settings. I was saddened to think that you @Can't think of a name were about to depart within the first day or two of arrival. I tire quickly of the placid conversations that often occur on "Christian" sites, full of platitudes and attitudes, of perhaps well-meaning souls, with hollow answers that rarely satisfy honest and true seekers.

I found this website at the time I joined about 2 weeks ago or so. I just searched on Google "Christian forum" and saw this one pop up in the search results and I had never seen it before. I don't know why Google didn't show it before but I have been on a couple of Christian forums in the last 10 years. There never seemed to be many out there.

I don't go into forums looking for cheap jokes and boring chit chat. I come to learn, ask questions, and find company that I can hopefully sustain. I want to talk about serious and important things, mostly about God. I like humour and it has its place but the general tenor of my being is more towards the serious side because I am sick of this evil world and I just want to be with God. The peace that passes understanding that I experienced when God saved me was so absolutely beautiful and tranquil and perfect, why would I not want more of that? I want it permanently. All the time. I want it to be tangible and not just in the background in general. I do not understand how someone can claim to be a born again Christian in truth and denounce personal testimonies based on subjective experiences of God that even tally between different people. I don't go in for experiences that are weird and charismatic and bizarre like some psychadelic dream or something, I go for the real ones that tally amongst believers all. These can be easily identified if you have read much literature on religious experience. But the Christians that denigrate experience do not seem to have all their marbles in place in my OPINION. What is the point of God existing if God is not attainable to human perception as an experience? How can that satisfy a person that really sincerely and truly wants to know if God exists?

 

[MrE]

Let's continue to flesh this out. Using a real and raw example from scripture, there was a woman about to be stoned by the mob, having been caught in the act of adultery. It's that story where the age-old principle of 'let him who is without sin, cast the first stone' originates. I alluded to it earlier.

Jesus steps in between her and the crowd and quite literally becomes her salvation. In that moment, she is saved. After shaming her would-be-killers, Jesus asks-- "Where are your accusers?" They melted away. "Neither do I condemn you" says he..... 'Go and sin no more."

Missing from the text, is the following----

"And they all lived happily ever after."

Neither does it say-- "The following week, she was back in bed with the very same man." We simply don't know the circumstances-- after she was saved, do we? But Christians are likely to entirely assume that she magically never sinned again. That all of her economic, and emotional or experiential circumstances, that brought her into the arms of an illicit affair, were instantly resolved at the moment Jesus "saved her."

Unlikely.

He loves us in, and through, and despite our circumstances.

 

[BruceLeiter]

I believe I was saved or born again due to an experience I had around 11 years ago. It came while I was reading the Bible. I have been a different person since that time. But one thing didn't change. I had problems with alcohol for 15 years before that due to having bad anxiety and a past of mental problems brought on by smoking marijuana. The marijuana caused panic attacks and I turned to drink at the advice of my Dad who I was living with then as a way of relief from the fear. It worked temporarily but I would wake up the next day and the fear was still strong. After some time of drinking at night like this the fear grew worse during the days so that I was experiencing more panic episodes more regularly. It culminated in an attack so bad I'm lucky to be alive today. I was given Valium at that time which lasted 2 weeks. When it ran out I was told to take medication which would take 2 more weeks to start working. I continued to drink and settled on the medication eventually. But the habit of drinking continued.

The day I was saved I was very excited because of 2 things. One, I knew for certain that God existed. And two, I knew that I wasn't God. I was so excited I continued to drink as before. I also continued to read the Bible and pray. But I have never been able to stop drinking. I have gone to God in silent prayer and prayer during the day while active, I have read the Bible numerous times by now, and I have begged and pleaded with God to take away the craving for alcohol. But nothing has changed.

I do not experience God in any way. The only time I did was when I was saved. There's the desire to read the Bible all the time, there is a background general sense of peace in my life at all times, I want to talk about God all the time and be with other Christians, etc, but no matter what I do, how hard I pray, how much of the Bible I read, there is just a big fat nothing going on. I have prayed only for God's presence, and for freedom from alcohol and absolutely nothing else (except to ask for salvation for my family). I have never had any of my prayers answered. Ever. And I don't know why. The Bible is said to cause sanctification. I can testify that that has not happened to me. I am still always the same as I was the day I was saved. There has been no response to prayers, no response to Bible reading. Just absolutely nothing at all. Why do I bother to continue? There is nothing else. I have nothing to live for either due to my current life circumstances. I am constantly in pain, constantly have a headache, constantly paranoid, constantly irritated with this world, drinking myself to death slowly and it is all hopeless and I don't know why God will not help me.

@Can't think of a name, I can identify with you in a couple ways. I experienced seven years of major depression, six of which were while I was a pastor, with two bad anxiety attacks near the end of my depression.

1. I can't emphasize this enough. God gave me psychological help to get me in touch with my anger and anxiety that were hidden in my unconscious mind. It took mental hospital professional people to help me uncover those emotions that I had buried until depression brought me down. That Christian hospital is Pine Rest Christian Mental Health on 68th Street in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I recommend it highly.

2. At the same time I was at the hospital, God taught me directly from his Word a pattern of praying that is not in the western culture, lamenting. More than half of the Psalms are at least partly lament, that is, complaining focused on the Psalmist's, usually David's, complaints in faith, not like the Israelites' unbelieving complaining in the desert but more like Moses', David's, Job's, and Habakkuk's questioning of God. It involves laying out to God your genuine emotions and seeking his gift of the real, lasting peace of Philippians 4:6-7.

3. At the end of my 8 1/2 months of lamenting 3 or 4 times a week, God gave me that peace, which has lasted almost 4 decades now, as long as I continue my focus on him. Once in a while, the stress level has built up so that I feel some of the depression symptoms, I ask God what I'm getting depressed about (he is now my Shrink), I persist in lamenting again, and he gives me his lasting peace and relief from the symptoms again.

4. If you know the circumstances about which you are anxious, you can begin lamenting now, but if you don't, get God's help through people. You might have to go to a few psychiatrists; I had two of them, who didn't help me, before I ended up in that wonderful hospital, where they use the team approach, which is the best way. However, you might be able to ask for the team that uses specifically-Christian approaches (they helped me a lot), because many of them think that it's enough for the therapists to only be Christians.

You are now on my daily prayer list. I will pray that God will relieve you of your addiction and anxieties. All my Christian love, Bruce Leiter.

 

[Can't think of a name]

@Can't think of a name, I can identify with you in a couple ways. I experienced seven years of major depression, six of which were while I was a pastor, with two bad anxiety attacks near the end of my depression.

1. I can't emphasize this enough. God gave me psychological help to get me in touch with my anger and anxiety that were hidden in my unconscious mind. It took mental hospital professional people to help me uncover those emotions that I had buried until depression brought me down. That Christian hospital is Pine Rest Christian Mental Health on 68th Street in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I recommend it highly.

2. At the same time I was at the hospital, God taught me directly from his Word a pattern of praying that is not in the western culture, lamenting. More than half of the Psalms are at least partly lament, that is, complaining focused on the Psalmist's, usually David's, complaints in faith, not like the Israelites' unbelieving complaining in the desert but more like Moses', David's, Job's, and Habakkuk's questioning of God. It involves laying out to God your genuine emotions and seeking his gift of the real, lasting peace of Philippians 4:6-7.

3. At the end of my 8 1/2 months of lamenting 3 or 4 times a week, God gave me that peace, which has lasted almost 4 decades now, as long as I continue my focus on him. Once in a while, the stress level has built up so that I feel some of the depression symptoms, I ask God what I'm getting depressed about (he is now my Shrink), I persist in lamenting again, and he gives me his lasting peace and relief from the symptoms again.

4. If you know the circumstances about which you are anxious, you can begin lamenting now, but if you don't, get God's help through people. You might have to go to a few psychiatrists; I had two of them, who didn't help me, before I ended up in that wonderful hospital, where they use the team approach, which is the best way. However, you might be able to ask for the team that uses specifically-Christian approaches (they helped me a lot), because many of them think that it's enough for the therapists to only be Christians.

You are now on my daily prayer list. I will pray that God will relieve you of your addiction and anxieties. All my Christian love, Bruce Leiter.

Thank you for sharing all this. I appreciate your insights and help. I do have a stable peace in my life or should I say "mind" that is always there in the background, which is the peace that passes understanding turned down to about 0.5 % when it should be a tangible 10 % (think of a guitar amp).

 

[Lamb]

I'm not talking about salvation though. Haven't I already made it clear that God saved me? I am talking about there being no ongoing expeiences. I'm not suffering from a lack of assurance about salvation. Why do Christians always make everything about salvation?

In baptism you received the gift of the Holy Spirit and He isn't just there for you to have salvation, but He also works within you to sanctify you. Those are the changes you're seeking in your life.

 

[Can't think of a name]

In baptism you received the gift of the Holy Spirit and He isn't just there for you to have salvation, but He also works within you to sanctify you. Those are the changes you're seeking in your life.

And how does one appropriate this sanctification? I read the Bible and I pray. It doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Lamb]

And how does one appropriate this sanctification? I read the Bible and I pray. It doesn't seem to be working.

God's word is feeding you, you can be sure of that. And you can be sure that the Holy Spirit is at work within you even though you don't see the results yet.

 

[Can't think of a name]

God's word is feeding you, you can be sure of that. And you can be sure that the Holy Spirit is at work within you even though you don't see the results yet.

I have seen results in some areas for many years. But it isn't much if anything and certainly not enough to stop me from drinking. Yes of course I am doing this to myself but It is too powerful for me to overcome by myself in my own power and I am not getting help enough from God.

 

[Lamb]

I have seen results in some areas for many years. But it isn't much if anything and certainly not enough to stop me from drinking. Yes of course I am doing this to myself but It is too powerful for me to overcome by myself in my own power and I am not getting help enough from God.

It sounds like you're blaming God a bit too much even though you do admit that you're doing it to yourself. Admitting some fault is something that begins the baby steps to recovery. Recovery can be a lifelong deal, not just cold turkey for many people. That can sound overwhelming.

 

[Can't think of a name]

It sounds like you're blaming God a bit too much even though you do admit that you're doing it to yourself. Admitting some fault is something that begins the baby steps to recovery. Recovery can be a lifelong deal, not just cold turkey for many people. That can sound overwhelming.

I'm not blaming God per se. It's just that no matter how much or how hard I pray there is no response.

 

[Vanguard]

I've been dealing with this for 26 years nearly 12 of which I have been saved. What am I supposed to have learnt by now?

Patience.

 

[Can't think of a name]

Patience.

Even God's patience wears out eventually. I am not learning anything by waiting so long and in the meantime I am heading towards death as life is so short. I have plenty of patience. If I didn't I wouldn't still be here.

 

[Frankj]

I'm not blaming God per se. It's just that no matter how much or how hard I pray there is no response.

Two boats and a helicopter.