Addictions

[Can't think of a name]

I don't know how to be more direct. I'm asking if this is your opinion or if there are actual scriptures saying this supporting it that make it something more than just a personal opinion.

I don't discount opinions, but I like to know how someone arrived at them so I can consider it in that light.

I said a lot of things. Could you be more specific?

 

[Can't think of a name]

I posted it because God is the one who baptized you (yes, it includes water and His word) and when you suggest that you don't see Him working within you, you can be assured that because of your baptism, that He is.

I'm not talking about salvation though. Haven't I already made it clear that God saved me? I am talking about there being no ongoing expeiences. I'm not suffering from a lack of assurance about salvation. Why do Christians always make everything about salvation?

 

[Frankj]

I don't know how to be more direct. I'm asking if this is your opinion or if there are actual scriptures saying this supporting it that make it something more than just a personal opinion.

I don't discount opinions, but I like to know how someone arrived at them so I can consider it in that light.

The subject of your post was Regeneration and Baptism and the rest was how you viewed it. I'm referring to pretty much everything you said in your post and how you came to believe it in that manner.

 

[Can't think of a name]

The subject of your post was Regeneration and Baptism and the rest was how you viewed it. I'm referring to pretty much everything you said in your post and how you came to believe it in that manner.

If there was something you disagree with then state what it is. I really just don't know how to answer you.

 

[Frankj]

Why do Christians always make everything about salvation?

Because that is what Christianity is about?

Without salvation there is no purpose to Christianity and no reason for anyone to be Christian.

Why do you want to be one?

 

[Frankj]

If there was something you disagree with then state what it is. I really just don't know how to answer you.

I'm sure you know the story of the blind men and the elephant, I'm wondering what part of it you are touching or if you are not touching it at all while thinking you are.

 

[Can't think of a name]

Because that is what Christianity is about?

Without salvation there is no purpose to Christianity and no reason for anyone to be Christian.

Why do you want to be one?

What I meant was that Christians always make every issue about salvation when that isn't the issue.

 

[Can't think of a name]

Because that is what Christianity is about?

Without salvation there is no purpose to Christianity and no reason for anyone to be Christian.

Why do you want to be one?

A person becomes a Christian when they are saved. They don't decide to be one, do they? If they decide to be a Christian that is a conversion but not a regeneration.

But of course I have run into your kind many, many times. No matter how much a person says they are saved, they are mistaken according to people like you.

Are you saved and how do you know you are?

 

[Can't think of a name]

I'm sure you know the story of the blind men and the elephant, I'm wondering what part of it you are touching or if you are not touching it at all while thinking you are.

Your writing is cryptic. Please do go ahead and tell me what you disagree with like I have already asked you to.

 

[MrE]

A person becomes a Christian when they are saved. They don't decide to be one, do they? If they decide to be a Christian that is a conversion but not a regeneration.

But of course I have run into your kind many, many times. No matter how much a person says they are saved, they are mistaken according to people like you.

Are you saved and how do you know you are?

I can see your point. The assumption is that a struggle with alcohol must be spiritual when in fact, it could simply be a physical ailment that needs to be dealt with a person can be completely saved and completely addicted at the same time anyone who doesn’t think so has never been addicted or known somebody who is.

Scripture teaches that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

 

[Can't think of a name]

I can see your point. The assumption is that a struggle with alcohol must be spiritual when in fact, it could simply be a physical ailment that needs to be dealt with a person can be completely saved and completely addicted at the same time anyone who doesn’t think so has never been addicted or known somebody who is

Thank you for your honest and correct response. I totally agree with you. Of course there are many like Frankj who mistakenly believe that when a person is saved they are delivered from all sin. You see thousands of testimonies like that on the internet. I have cornered people like that and asked them for more specific details of their struggles with drugs or alcohol and it always, without exception, turns out that they were the ones who decided to stop using those substances and it wasn't because they were saved necessarily. Salvation does give us the desire to not want to sin and to hate sin, but that's not enough to produce an abstinence from chemically addicted and physically addicted states. Anybody that knows anything about addictions and rehabilitation knows that people who are heavily addicted need medications and very careful monitoring so that they don't have a seizure and die when they abstain.

I am prepared to admit there are cases where God will take away cravings from some people. I have also seen those testimonies. But the ones who say God delivered them when they were saved and born again almost always will admit they used their own will power to fight against the cravings etc.

 

[Frankj]

If there was something you disagree with then state what it is. I really just don't know how to answer you.

Asking you to further explain what you have said so that I can consider what you believe is not disagreeing with anything, it is asking why you believe what you are saying you believe.

 

[MrE]

In a practical sense— do you have help? Have you sought the support of experts, groups like AA, a sponsor, counselor, physician, medicine or therapy, to assist?

It isn’t a battle you should fight alone.

 

[Can't think of a name]

Asking you to further explain what you have said so that I can consider what you believe is not disagreeing with anything, it is asking why you believe what you are saying you believe.

THat's just plain WEIRD. I believe what I wrote. I wrote it. I believe it. What do you actually want to know? Am I supposed to disagree with something I said already? If you can't be specific after all the previous posts I can't help you out. If you want to play word games with me it isn't going to work for very longer.

 

[Frankj]

I can see your point. The assumption is that a struggle with alcohol must be spiritual when in fact, it could simply be a physical ailment that needs to be dealt with a person can be completely saved and completely addicted at the same time anyone who doesn’t think so has never been addicted or known somebody who is.

Scripture teaches that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

If that is the case, a simple detoxification to break the addiction is all that is needed.

I've seen than numerous times when someone has become addicted in a hospital then treated for that addiction and detoxed then go on with their life addiction free with no problem after leaving the hospital.

I doubt that is what most alcoholics, smokers and other drug addicts are dealing with.

 

[Can't think of a name]

In a practical sense— do you have help? Have you sought the support of experts, groups like AA, a sponsor, counselor, physician, medicine or therapy, to assist?

It isn’t a battle you should fight alone.

Yes I have sought help in the past many times over and currently I am seeing someone who works for a company that deals with addicts. I went to AA a long time before I was saved but it creeped me out. Not surprisingly I don't agree with their spiritual approach as it doesn't conform to Christianity. But I did talk to a guy in AA not too long ago nevertheless.

 

[Can't think of a name]

If that is the case, a simple detoxification to break the addiction is all that is needed.

I've seen than numerous times when someone has become addicted in a hospital then treated for that addiction and detoxed then go on with their life addiction free with no problem after leaving the hospital.

I doubt that is what most alcoholics, smokers and other drug addicts are dealing with.

And I've seen numerous cases of people that have detoxed and later on relapsed. You can't be honest and state you know of no such thing.

But now I know where you are going with this. No, I am not demon possessed. Oppressed, of course, what Christian isn't?

 

[Frankj]

THat's just plain WEIRD. I believe what I wrote. I wrote it. I believe it. What do you actually want to know? Am I supposed to disagree with something I said already? If you can't be specific after all the previous posts I can't help you out. If you want to play word games with me it isn't going to work for very longer.

When someone can't explain why they believe what they believe I generally think that they don't really know why they believe that way, whether it is their own thinking or someone else's that they have unknowingly adopted for reasons of their own.

When you want change in your life keep in mind that the only thing you can actually change is yourself. Nothing will change until you change and everything changes when you do.

Wish you well, may your day be blessed.

 

[Can't think of a name]

When someone can't explain why they believe what they believe I generally think that they don't really know why they believe that way, whether it is their own thinking or someone else's that they have unknowingly adopted for reasons of their own.

When you want change in your life keep in mind that the only thing you can actually change is yourself. Nothing will change until you change and everything changes when you do.

Wish you well, may your day be blessed.

I still do not know what you are talking about. What exactly was I unable to explain about what I believe? I don't disagree with myself on a regular basis! You didn't give even a hint of recognition as to what exactly it is I am supposed to explain!

 

[MrE]

Yes I have sought help in the past many times over and currently I am seeing someone who works for a company that deals with addicts. I went to AA a long time before I was saved but it creeped me out. Not surprisingly I don't agree with their spiritual approach as it doesn't conform to Christianity. But I did talk to a guy in AA not too long ago nevertheless.

I've heard that before, but also positive experiences-- and there are many testimonies of successful escape from the clutches of addiction through programs including, or like-- AA. What they call "a higher power" -we identify as God and know as our Father. My point is that it is important and a benefit to have folks alongside you. One thing that they all have in common, is a story of sobriety that is inexorably linked to struggle in a life-long sense. The pull toward the bottle remains years beyond 'having quit' drink. This is a fact, and I suppose a consequence- that you will have to accomodate.

It might help also to substitute something, an activity for example, for alcohol. Trade booze for exercise-- the benefits are enormous, and beyond measure is the reality that when you exercise and become more physically fit, your body and mind will work with you to reject the negative effects of alcohol. You won't want to drink and trade those fitness benefits for the detrimental harm and illness of booze.