Did Abraham conjure up his own faith...

MennoSota · Jan 4, 2019

...or did God gift him faith as a part of the covenant of promise?
Romans 4:13-25

13For*the promise to Abraham and his offspring*that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.*14For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.*15For*the law brings wrath, but*where there is no law*there is no transgression.

16That is why it depends on faith,*in order that the promise may rest on grace and*be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham,*who is the father of us all,*17as it is written,*“I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed,*who gives life to the dead and calls into existence*the things that do not exist.*18In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told,*“So shall your offspring be.”*19He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was*as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered*the barrenness*of Sarah’s womb.*20No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,*21fully convinced that*God was able to do what he had promised.*22That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.”*23But*the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone,*24but for ours also. It will be counted to us*who believe in*him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,*25who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised*for our justification.

Lamb · Jan 4, 2019

Faith is a gift from God, not something we have in ourselves to turn us to Him.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

psalms 91 · Jan 4, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Faith is a gift from God, not something we have in ourselves to turn us to Him.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Does this mean that our bad decisions that make us suffer till we get sick and tired of being sick and tired are because God didnt give us faith? I dont think so

Lamb · Jan 4, 2019

psalms 91 said:
Does this mean that our bad decisions that make us suffer till we get sick and tired of being sick and tired are because God didnt give us faith? I dont think so

I didn't say that. There's nothing in the verse that states anything about that.

psalms 91 · Jan 4, 2019

Lämmchen said:
I didn't say that. There's nothing in the verse that states anything about that.

If I cant be saved unless God gives the faith what does it say then? To me it is saying that we are all given faith and it is our rejection of that that causes our suffering until we reach a point where we accept the saviour

Albion · Jan 4, 2019

psalms 91 said:
If I cant be saved unless God gives the faith what does it say then? To me it is saying that we are all given faith and it is our rejection of that that causes our suffering until we reach a point where we accept the saviour

To me it is saying that we cannot escape the sinfulness of our nature on our own.

How anyone can read the Bible and NOT get that most basic of concepts from it is really surprising.

MennoSota · Jan 4, 2019

psalms 91 said:
If I cant be saved unless God gives the faith what does it say then? To me it is saying that we are all given faith and it is our rejection of that that causes our suffering until we reach a point where we accept the saviour

Are you saying that lack of faith causes cancer and genetic disease which brings suffering?

Arsenios · Jan 4, 2019

Ephesians 2:8
For by Grace you have been Saved, through the Faith—
and this is not from yourselves,
Of God the Gift—

This means that God gave us the Faith which Christ discipled to His Apostles...
It means that you did not generate the Grace of God, the Faith of God, nor the Salvation of God...
Salvation by God's Grace through the practice of the Faith Christ discipled is the Gift of God...

Our entry into the Faith of Christ begins with our response to the Gospel of Christ:

"Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven [Christ] is at hand!"

Your response to this call is yours alone...

And you will answer for it...

Arsenios

psalms 91 said:
Does this mean that our bad decisions that make us suffer till we get sick and tired of being sick and tired are because God didnt give us faith? I dont think so

psalms 91 · Jan 4, 2019

MennoSota said:
Are you saying that lack of faith causes cancer and genetic disease which brings suffering?

What is the root cause of suffering?

Lamb · Jan 4, 2019

psalms 91 said:
What is the root cause of suffering?

The fall.

psalms 91 · Jan 4, 2019

which is sin right

MennoSota · Jan 4, 2019

psalms 91 said:
What is the root cause of suffering?

It ain't lack of faith. I can tell you that.
Now, I get the feeling you are asking a leading question so...tell me what the root cause of suffering is.

John 9:1-3
1As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth.*2And his disciples asked him,*“Rabbi,*who sinned,*this man or*his parents, that he was born blind?”*3Jesus answered,*“It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but*that the works of God might be displayed in him.*

psalms 91 · Jan 4, 2019

sin of course

MennoSota · Jan 4, 2019

psalms 91 said:
sin of course

So...who sinned...
John 9:1-3

1As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

MoreCoffee · Jan 4, 2019

Abraham did not "conjure up" anything". Only a pagan would be thinking in terms of Abram using magic incantations to do what is normal and natural for a man created in God's image. It was, of course, part of God's gift to Abram that his human nature was capable of belief. Abram could believe the truth or believe something else. Just as Eve believed the snake who spoke lies so Abram believed God (who speaks truth) and Abram acted upon his belief and it was accounted to him as righteousness. This is a lesson taught to children so it is a surprise to find an adult asking about it. Can it be that the original poster forgot what is taught to children in Christian churches?

Abram believed God and acted upon his belief and it was accounted as righteousness and he became Abraham. God renamed him to reflect his faith and the actions that completed it. Abram became the father of Isaac and thus became Abraham which means the father of many [nations].

Of course Abram's human nature was a gift from God and his abilities - limited though they were by sin and the consequences of it - included the ability to believe what God told him if he chose to. Every good gift comes from God - the holy scriptures tell the faithful this and the faithful remember it - so Abram believed God using the grace given to him in his human nature. It is the same grace that is present in every human being even though some choose not to exercise it by believing God but rather misuse their God given graces to believe lies instead of believing the truth from God.

Lamb · Jan 4, 2019

psalms 91 said:
which is sin right

Adam's sin. I don't get sick because I committed any direct type of sin.

Andrew · Jan 4, 2019

Albion said:
To me it is saying that we cannot escape the sinfulness of our nature on our own.

How anyone can read the Bible and NOT get that most basic of concepts from it is really surprising.

An atheist once told me that it is impossible for her to sin because she simply denies the biblical concept of sin.
As if sin is a Christian belief itself...
She believes we should focus on correcting what we know and others see as bad behavior.
Now as a former atheist I may have agreed with her in the past but God was I miserable as an atheist, she was a very miserable unhappy person who decided not to be friends with me because of my Christian beliefs... she thought of them as anti liberalism and pro conservative, after she found how who I voted for she ended our friendship... I acknowledge myself as a hopeful believer rather than a curmudgeon self righteous and bitter person, Gods faith first lifts up the confessing believer and it has no effect on the non believer... In other words I can't give her the Spirit it must come from God to her.
Not sure why I chose to respond to your quote like this Albion, maybe its because with Faith we are made aware of our sin as we should be... kind of like the 12 step recovery "first you have to admit you have a problem"

psalms 91 · Jan 5, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Adam's sin. I don't get sick because I committed any direct type of sin.

some do and some is from original sin. I am quite sure that God does not want us sick

MoreCoffee · Jan 5, 2019

psalms 91 said:
some do and some is from original sin. I am quite sure that God does not want us sick

Too true. I've never ever heard of angel flu.

Lamb · Jan 5, 2019

psalms 91 said:
some do and some is from original sin. I am quite sure that God does not want us sick

It's all because of original sin. That's where we became separated from God. Jesus reconciled us but we don't know that until we are given the gift of faith. That's a gift from God.

Did Abraham conjure up his own faith...

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