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  1. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    Yes, Rufinus did
  2. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    I said that according to Rufinus the books mentioned outside the two classes are considered Apocrypha and forbidden to be read, the so called "Apocrypha" books is NOT what he is talking about since he lists several of them as being in the class of Ecclesiastical writings that also the church...
  3. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    They were never mysterious and publishing houses did include them. Because Rufinus literally tells us the traditional books handed down by the church fathers, the church fathers literally quote them as being Scripture and no early church father has been reported to have protested against...
  4. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    Seriously? Again, Rufinus gives us a list of divine scripture divided into two classes, the class of canon and the class of ecclesiastical, how did I come up with that??? I quoted Rufinus! Ask him! The "other writings" he calls Apocrypha and says that they wouldn't have been read in churches...
  5. Andrew

    "the one who stands firm to the end will be saved"...

    Lucian, do you think about God everyday?
  6. Andrew

    "the one who stands firm to the end will be saved"...

    Divine love, to and fro? Not sure what greek is used in the NT, agape?
  7. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    No Apocrypha books were ever allowed to be read in church, so for every church father that quotes from non-inspired literature AS inspired are considered heretics.. so lets first define what IS divine and what IS NOT divine.. "This then is the Holy Ghost, who in the Old Testament inspired the...
  8. Andrew

    "the one who stands firm to the end will be saved"...

    Peter fell into the water because he was "of little faith" but he didn't drown, Jesus who called him to walk on water had rescued him.. later on when Jesus asks Peter who he believes He is, Peter confesses "You are Messiah, Son of the Living God", his faith had become a firm foundation of rock...
  9. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    The Bible is record of events so in all fairness according to you no book fulfills prophecy, only the events do, and Luther had certain beliefs of some NT books that you would disagree with him on but because your 500 year old church tells you which books belong and which don't -I find that to...
  10. Andrew

    Do Mormons even read the New Testament?

    D & C?
  11. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    How does 1 Maccabees relate at all to Daniel if not PROPHECY? Come on man!
  12. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    The more correct term would be "Ecclesiasticals"
  13. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    I only refer to them as "Apocrypha" to spare you and others the confusion. Yes I can quote it and I have quoted it several times already, its also on the beggersall blog, i'll cut and paste it some other time when I have the time.
  14. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    That's very sad considering Luther himself fully accepted that 1 Maccabees fulfils the prophecy in Daniel and how 1 Maccabees is "not unworthy" to be placed among sacred scripture.
  15. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    Huh? Prophecy and fulfillment is what makes the Bible stand out over all other religious text, when Jesus prophesied the end times he makes it clear why he does so.."these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them" The Spirit of Prophecy IS...
  16. Andrew

    Do Mormons even read the New Testament?

    I own a copy of the book of Mormon but never read too much of it, I intended on using it against the elders should they come knocking on my door but according to the book there is just no way they have read the NT and still believe Joseph Smiths story.. I just now skimmed over two pages where...
  17. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    The atonement was for same one sin of each man, the sin of wearing pagan charms, you're right, in his mind if a sacrificial sin offering atones for the past sin of someone who died in that sin, only to be risen to life later on, would that offering be just as valid upon that persons resurrection...
  18. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    Running out those who defile the Temple -as Jesus did. Saving Gods people on the Sabbath -as Jesus did. Emphases on the Resurrection of the dead -as Jesus did and will do Expectations of the prophet to raise the dead -Jesus Refusing to transgress the faith under torture and death -Jesus...
  19. Andrew

    If the prophecies in Daniel 8 cannot be understood without Maccabees, then doesn’t that prove Maccabees belongs in the Bible?

    lol It literally states that this was merely an act of commemoration for the fallen men, no where does it imply that God spoke and granted them mercy upon accepting the offering! The passage is more about Judah proclaiming his belief in the promise of the resurrection and his hopes that the...
  20. Andrew

    Ecclesiasticals VS Canonical

    I forgot the introduction to Rufinus' list of Holy Scriptures (again some are called Canon and some are called ecclesiastical) [36] This then is the Holy Ghost, who in the Old Testament inspired the Law and the Prophets, in the New the Gospels and the Epistles. Whence also the Apostle says, "...
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