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    What is the main reason why the Apocrypha doesn’t belong in the Bible?

    Forgive my ignorance, but which specific prophecy in Daniel cannot be understood without reading what in Maccabees?
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    What is the main reason why the Apocrypha doesn’t belong in the Bible?

    Let me clarify, since I seem to have failed to communicate. Point #1: The 66 books in the Protestant bible and the Septuagint vs Masoretic texts. I have read the KJV bible a little (but did not prefer the archaic grammar). I have read the RSV, the NIV, the NASB and the NLT translations a great...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    Respectfully, you have missed the point. There is already another topic dedicated to the question of the status of the books beyond the 66 universally agreed upon by Christiandom and THIS is not that topic. This is a topic specifically to critically examine any merit or theological...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    “ for the majesty of thy glory cannot be borne, and thine angry threatening toward sinners is importable” [Deuteronomy 5:24-26 NASB] 24 "You said, 'Behold, the LORD our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we have seen today that...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    “ whom all men fear, and tremble before thy power” [Exo 9:30 NASB] 30 "But as for you and your servants, I know that you do not yet fear the LORD God." ALL men do not fear the LORD, but I suspect that all men tremble before His power. (We will chalk this up to hyperbole rather than a...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    “ who hast made heaven and earth, with all the ornament thereof; who hast bound the sea by the word of thy commandment; who hast shut up the deep, and sealed it by thy terrible and glorious name” [2Ch 2:12 NASB] 12 Then Huram continued, "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who has made...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    “O Lord, Almighty God of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and of their righteous seed“ [Exodus 3:15 NASB] God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent...
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    What is the main reason why the Apocrypha doesn’t belong in the Bible?

    You are quite emphatic in your anti-Masoretic Old Testament, and I am about 70% sure that some of your facts are wrong in their details and 90% sure that your facts are wrong in their conspiracy theory tone. Modern translations into English are based on BOTH the Septuagint and Masoretic PLUS...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    “O Lord, Almighty God of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and of their righteous seed;” Does this seem to anyone else to run contrary to the message of Scripture? Who is the “righteous seed”? Was it EVER the children of Adam? Was it ever the chosen nation? As far back as Adam and...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    That is exactly how I read that part as well. Like when God declared Job a righteous man, he didn’t mean that Job was sinless and Paul was mistaken in the book of Romans (which quoted the OT about the sinfulness of men). I agree Manasseh was speaking from humility offering a ‘relative’...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    I am a former atheist, so Luther doesn’t get a free pass from me either (nor would Calvin or Augustine or Spurgeon or Wesley). They all get their statements held up to the test of Scripture. “ Manasseh is praying for forgiveness and mercy not only for his current world but of his soul just...
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    The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

    Andrew Andrew wrote: “The Prayer of Manasseh is a very short read and it really catches the heart of a true repenting believer who is at his lowest, this prayer relates to us all who are humble and fear God knowing that we are chief of sinners and ask for forgiveness.. This prayer is what...
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    What is the main reason why the Apocrypha doesn’t belong in the Bible?

    Not in Hebrew (like the REAL scripture containing Chronicles). During the Babylonian exile, most Jews lost the ability to read and write in Hebrew and Aramaic became the common language for spoken and written communication. With the later rise of Alexander the Great and the Roman Empire, Greek...
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    Does GOD Contradict HIMSELF or Do We Misunderstand HIS WORD ?

    What is "believe" ... [Romans 1:18-23 NLT] But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth...
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    What is the main reason why the Apocrypha doesn’t belong in the Bible?

    Just setting the record straight. Andrew stated: YOU provided the dates, not me. Arthur even clarified: ... Yet here we are in the very scholarly debate that I wanted no part of: Since you insist ... why are there NO Hebrew fragments from the Prayer of Manasseh among the THOUSANDS of...
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    What is the main reason why the Apocrypha doesn’t belong in the Bible?

    I wonder if you can even see how problematic what you wrote is. Let’s just take everything you said about Manasseh, the writing of the Prayer of Manasseh and the translation and compilation of the Septuagint as fact (to avoid scholarly debate). You have just refuted the historicity of...
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    What is the main reason why the Apocrypha doesn’t belong in the Bible?

    Andrew Well, that was certainly a clear enough statement of your position on the Apocrypha (some additional books at any rate) being God inspired “Old Testament” (Law) Scripture. Just for the record, I respectfully disagree with your conclusions. I once read “The Prayer of Jabez”, a small...
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    Were there 70 or 75 people in Jacob’s family?

    There were more than 75 people in Jacob's extended family. [Genesis 46:26 NASB] All the persons belonging to Jacob, who came to Egypt, his direct descendants, not including the wives of Jacob's sons, [were] sixty-six persons in all, Only the direct decedents of Jacob Excluding the wives of...
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    What is the main reason why the Apocrypha doesn’t belong in the Bible?

    I will be happy to get to any specific questions, including the one posted about Clement of Rome if you think that is important, however having read this topic there has been far too much talking PAST each other. I wish to avoid that pit by getting some basics clear at the beginning ... like...
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    Does GOD Contradict HIMSELF or Do We Misunderstand HIS WORD ?

    OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) is not identical to Perseverance of the Saints (from the Doctrines of Grace and the Synod of Dort). The Saints (those “elect” who were FOREKNOWN and PREDESTINED and CALLED by God) will Persevere (be JUSTIFIED and GLORIFIED by God). (Romans 8:28-30) Those not drawn...
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