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Such are the pitfalls for those who hold to universal atonement. Just another good reason to abandon that error. 😅

Sorry for the double posting, everyone. I'm trying to figure this forum out, and I also see that I can't delete a post once it's posted. Anyhow...while I probably am not responding to individual snippets correctly (per Lamb's instructions to me privately), nonetheless I think I have found a...

. Yes, but only sheep CAN have faith. And Jesus laid down his life only for those who CAN have faith, i.e. his sheep. The only way anyone could "easily see it as implying He did die for all" is by using the method of eisgesis to interept the text. And scripture forbids us to add to God's...

quote]Doran said: (Mat 25:31-46) . Yes, but only sheep CAN have faith. And Jesus laid down his life only for those who CAN have faith, i.e. his sheep. The only way anyone could "easily see it as implying He did die for all" is by using the method of eisgesis to interpret the text. And...

Yes, but only sheep CAN have faith. And Jesus laid down his life only for those who CAN have faith, i.e. his sheep. The only way anyone could "easily see it as implying He did die for all" is by using the method of eisgesis to interpret the text. And scripture explicitly forbids us to add to...

Yes, but sheep and goats are contrasted. And since John 10 says that Jesus lays down for his sheep, then the logical inference is that the goats are excluded, most especially since the goats CANNOT come to faith. Only God's sheep are given the gift of faith.

"Universalists" was just shorthand for advocates for unlimited atonement. Besides, you do have a lot in common with real universalists who are more consistent than the folks here. At least they believe that since Christ atoned for all men's sins, then all men are saved. So...there is that. :)

Predestination, sir. If God has not predestined a person in eternity to be saved, then that person will never be saved (Rom 8:29-30). Also, God is very obviously a covenant God who sovereignly chooses with whom he will enter into a personal covenant relationship. The two biggest covenants in...

Gents, this forum format is driving me nuts. This is one of the most difficult formats I've had to navigate through in replying to messages. So, unless someone can graciously give me some pointers, I must bow out. Navigating this format in terms of replies is far too time consuming. I find...

No, I'll settle for proof texts. And your point? Mine is that you universalists need to reconcile the "many" passages with the "all" passages. Are you going to tell us that Many = All?

Not at all. God loves those who are in Christ. And all saints have been in Christ before the foundation of the world. Contemplate Rom 8:39. Note carefully WHERE the love of God for the saints is! It's "in Christ Jesus our Lord" The implications to this text are staggering. This means God...

Right! The sheep had faith because they were of God's pasture. They were Christ's sheep! They believed BECAUSE they were sheep.

Well, we get explicit "instructions" (teachings) from scripture, don't we? Jesus said he laid down his life for the sheep. That pretty specific, isn't it? Yet, many will say that since Jesus DIDN'T say that he didn't lay down his life also for the goats, then we're free to be instructed...

None of those passage prove that Christ died for all in the quantitative sense, i.e. without exception. But if we interpret those passages as meaning that he died for all in the qualitative sense (i.e. all men without distinction such as Jews and Gentiles) then this interpretation accords with...

The moral to the story is that a common retort to an argument is that, "well, scripture does not say". For example, scripture doesn't say specifically that Jesus didn't lay down his life for the goats as well as the sheep. But this is a fallacious argument since scripture also doesn't say that...

Very well said! Israel was a type of Christ by contrast! Jesus perfectly fulfilled the covenant mission that the nation of Israel was tasked with. Since the Church is the Body of Christ, she can now be called the Israel of God.

Here's the problem in a nutshell, (which I actually pointed out in my 735): It's the problem of the MANY, which is explicitly stated in several passages, and your presupposition that certain terms or phrases in the bible always mean "ALL" in the quantitative sense and in no other sense. This is...

I have to make this very short. Gotta run soon. UNKNOWN to whom? God? Really? Rom 8:29-30 29 For those whom he FOREKNEW he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also...

Let's see if we can connect a few dots to what Peter said in Act 10:35, which again reads: "but [God] accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right." What we should not overlook in this passage is that Peter is actually making a moral/spiritual commentary about the kind of man...

Saints, I have maintained from the beginning that there is indeed a sense in which Christ died for "the whole world". It's not in the quantitative sense (i.e. without exception), as some here believe, but rather in the qualitative sense, that is to say that Christ died for all men without...