What is considered women teaching? Is posting studies taboo to you?

MoreCoffee

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I think that either side of the argument reflects on the person's stance to law and grace.

But do you mean "refute" or "contradict" - what Paul's comment about women being silent in church may mean is worth discussion but my question was only about what you meant in your post when you used the word "refutes".
 

Cassia

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But do you mean "refute" or "contradict" - what Paul's comment about women being silent in church may mean is worth discussion but my question was only about what you meant in your post when you used the word "refutes".
I stand by what I said on both counts. Imo the law stance has been refuted. And the verse that people quote Paul on is rabitical LAW.
 

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Can you answer the Op question then rather than bringing it offtopic please?

Okay, you asked if your home studies should be posted in women's forums only.

No, you post in this forum and nobody objects because you're a women. People may disagree with your posts but that would be because of some aspect of the post's content and not because it was written by a woman.

Nevertheless Paul does say that women ought to be silent in church and that may have implications for women teaching men in general when it is taken in conjunction with Paul's prohibition on women having authority over men. I know that some denominations forbid women to teach in any setting where men are present and that might include internet web forums. I don't agree with the denominations that take a stance like that.
 
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Cassia

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Yes, Paul probably means that women ought not disrupt corporate worship but that would be true of men also if his intention were only to write against disturbing orderly worship but since he singles out women for this rebuke it may have more meaning than your post suggests.
Or it could mean that culterally for the first time being allowed in in a new way they were told to stop interupting and ask their husbands who had been coached already.
 

Cassia

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Okay, you asked is your home studies should be posted in women's forums only.

No, you post in this forum and nobody objects because you're a women. People may disagree with your posts but that would be because of sme aspect of the post's content and not because it was written by a woman.

Nevertheless Paul does say that women ought to be silent in church and that may have implications for women teaching men in general when it is taken in conjunction with Paul's prohibition on women having authority over men. I know that some denominations forbid women to teach in any setting where men are present an that might include internet web forums. I don't agree with the denominations that take a stance like that.
Men who believe that would be responsible not to read from women's posts wouldn't you think?
 

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I stand by what I said on both counts. Imo the law stance has been refuted. And the verse that people quote Paul on is rabitical LAW.

The context for Paul's comment about women being silent in church is
What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting by, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues; but all things should be done decently and in order.
1 Corinthians 14:26-40
Paul attributes the prohibition on women speaking in church to the Lord [Jesus Christ].
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.
1 Timothy 2:1-15
The silence includes women being silent as far as teaching men is concerned. What one is to make of Paul's appeal to the angels I do not know. Many people read the passages that I've quoted and come to all sorts of interesting opinions about the intended meaning and what is applicable to christian women today. The opinions differ widely. It's an interesting matter for discussion. I am not inclined to think that women are to be ignored or silenced but many disagree with me on that.
 

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Men who believe that would be responsible not to read from women's posts wouldn't you think?

Maybe, I do not think that women ought to be silenced on general forums where a man may be reading so I have not devoted a lot of prayer and thought to the matter other than giving it some scant attention when somebody brings it up.
 

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Or it could mean that culterally for the first time being allowed in in a new way they were told to stop interupting and ask their husbands who had been coached already.

Many husbands would not have been coached about the meaning before hand. That is true today. I think it was probably true in first and second century Christianity too.
 

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I stand by what I said on both counts. Imo the law stance has been refuted. And the verse that people quote Paul on is rabitical LAW.

Paul does make a passing reference to the law in 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 but I am not sure that his reference is more than passing and means any more than that "even the law says that [women ought to be silent]" I cannot think of specific old testament passages saying women are to be silent. Maybe the law Paul is referring to is "rabbinical" as you suggest (more correctly in the first century it would be Pharisaical rather than Rabbinical) or it may be some ruling or other that was practised in synagogues of his day.
 

Cassia

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Many husbands would not have been coached about the meaning before hand. That is true today. I think it was probably true in first and second century Christianity too.
Actually the other example from Peter given as to silence has to with unbelieving husbands and women to act by example in silence. The reason there being Jesus' own example of silence before the courts.
 

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Actually the other example from Peter given as to silence has to with unbelieving husbands and women to act by example in silence. The reason there being Jesus' own example of silence before the courts.

1 Timothy 2:1-15 is Paul. But I think Peter says something about women
Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands, so that some, though they do not obey the word, may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, when they see your reverent and chaste behavior. Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing, but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. So once the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves and were submissive to their husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are now her children if you do right and let nothing terrify you.
1 Peter 3:1-6
But he does not mention silence.
 

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1 Timothy 2:1-15 is Paul. But I think Peter says something about women
Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands, so that some, though they do not obey the word, may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, when they see your reverent and chaste behavior. Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing, but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. So once the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves and were submissive to their husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are now her children if you do right and let nothing terrify you.
1 Peter 3:1-6
But he does not mention silence.
Hmn I don't know what verse I was thinking of then unless it was to do with servants which is the real reason behind many not wanting immancipation. Peter was the biggest proponent of a race of kings and priests not a lot of Lord's in there but One.

18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

19 For this is thankworthy: if a man, because of his conscience toward God, endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

20 For what glory is it if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? But if when ye do well and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21 For even unto this were ye called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps,

The expression in 1-6 suggest 'as long as the believing wives are doing good they need not be afraid with any sudden terror on account which unbelieving husbands may exact on them" The subject is still unbelieving husbands and not believing husbands. As an example of Sarah is used for the analogy in Galations 4 of GRACE. Those of the promise are not of Hagar which Abraham obeyed Sarah in sending away.
 

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The expression in 1-6 suggest 'as long as the believing wives are doing good they need not be afraid with any sudden terror on account which unbelieving husbands may exact on them" The subject is still unbelieving husbands and not believing husbands. As an example of Sarah is used for the analogy in Galations 4 of GRACE. Those of the promise are not of Hagar which Abraham obeyed Sarah in sending away.

I took the passage from Peter to be advocating behaviour and example based evangelism within marriage. His advice seems to be "win your husbands for the gospel by living the gospel in humble obedience and gentleness rather than by teaching or arguing as if argument and instruction will win them to the gospel of Jesus Christ". I think his reasoning is based on what Jesus himself did. He taught by example first and when the disciples became curious about what he did or what he'd said in a parable then Jesus explained why he did or said that thing that got them interested. It's winning people with honey instead of correcting them with vinegar.
 

NewCreation435

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I posted this on 'the other' forum and so far have only gotten one reply. I thought I might get more participation here.

I do a lot of home studies ... daily in fact. And I`m excited about some of the things I`m learning. So I share many of them. But I find that participation on forums brings negative feedback. (not about the content of the posts) I`m not a pastor just a Christian. In your opinion should these studies be published in women`s forums only

I don't think it matters. If a person sees it on a forum and chooses to use it that is their choice.
 

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I posted this on 'the other' forum and so far have only gotten one reply. I thought I might get more participation here.

I do a lot of home studies ... daily in fact. And I`m excited about some of the things I`m learning. So I share many of them. But I find that participation on forums brings negative feedback. (not about the content of the posts) I`m not a pastor just a Christian. In your opinion should these studies be published in women`s forums only

First and most important I appreciate your input here and at that other place LOL! I can tell you put in a lot of time studying the topics and your replies are always relevant.

I think we have to be careful how we interpret scripture and put those things into practice. We here in the U.S. are highly influenced by our left, right; good, bad; black and white thinking that so prevails in both our politics and is effecting our churches perspectives. When I first became a fervent follower of Christ it was within conservative American Evangelicalism which always left me with the taste of legalism in my mouth. After being an Orthodox catechumen for a while it really freed me up from that paradigm and I not only feel I'm closer to the mindset of early Christianity I am much happier for it.

That being said I do feel having male clergy is both more Biblical and historically accurate but I would be careful to draw out limiting women within the church any further then that. And I especially don't have a problem discussing biblical topics with women particularly here in a forum setting.
 

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How can one explain Priscilla and her husband explaining the correct meaning of baptism to Apollos in regards to women and teaching according to the bible, in other words, are there less restrictions than men try to put upon the female gender?
 

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How can one explain Priscilla and her husband explaining the correct meaning of baptism to Apollos in regards to women and teaching according to the bible, in other words, are there less restrictions than men try to put upon the female gender?

There may be less restrictions in holy scripture than one finds in specific denominations.
 

Cassia

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First and most important I appreciate your input here and at that other place LOL! I can tell you put in a lot of time studying the topics and your replies are always relevant.

I think we have to be careful how we interpret scripture and put those things into practice. We here in the U.S. are highly influenced by our left, right; good, bad; black and white thinking that so prevails in both our politics and is effecting our churches perspectives. When I first became a fervent follower of Christ it was within conservative American Evangelicalism which always left me with the taste of legalism in my mouth. After being an Orthodox catechumen for a while it really freed me up from that paradigm and I not only feel I'm closer to the mindset of early Christianity I am much happier for it.

That being said I do feel having male clergy is both more Biblical and historically accurate but I would be careful to draw out limiting women within the church any further then that. And I especially don't have a problem discussing biblical topics with women particularly here in a forum setting.
First and foremost for me is that I have stated that I'm not a preacher but I'm very happy when someone notices the effort especially when it is to discuss the Word of God itself whether on the thread or elsewhere. Putting the Word of God into practise can't be a bad thing when your God is Christ. It's not possible for anyone to write anything but in the way that they see it unless they are puppeting someone else. I haven't returned to the 'other' thread yet so don't know how that's progressing :p.

The mindset of early Christianity included women as teachers in their own homes (again I'm not claiming to be anything but a Christian, never have) with the change to hierarchy coming in with Rome and the shift to the form of Roman council. Therefore I can't agree with the Biblical aspect but only with that of the historical. If I have to be careful handling the meat of the word and regress to the milk then I'm probably in the wrong place to start with. Meaning I would not draw a line at limiting women within the church at all. That I don't see as biblical for too many reasons. That being said I don't have a problem discussing biblical topics with men either unless it's to be treated as someone unable to handle the word of God because of gender and the disrespect that goes with that.

If someone does not believe that women should be ordained they should look at Numbers 6:2 and see that God has ordained men and women to come to Him, in a vow of santification, for a while or a lifetime. God is not gender objective. There are very many more examples too. And of Jesus sending women to tell the believers such and such. But it's not for me to change anyone's mind.

It does get monotomous after awhile tho but truthfully it's not nearly as bad as it was 15 yrs ago and maybe someday when men see and not fall back to old ways it will change.
 

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How can one explain Priscilla and her husband explaining the correct meaning of baptism to Apollos in regards to women and teaching according to the bible, in other words, are there less restrictions than men try to put upon the female gender?

First and foremost for me is that I have stated that I'm not a preacher but I'm very happy when someone notices the effort especially when it is to discuss the Word of God itself whether on the thread or elsewhere. Putting the Word of God into practise can't be a bad thing when your God is Christ. It's not possible for anyone to write anything but in the way that they see it unless they are puppeting someone else. I haven't returned to the 'other' thread yet so don't know how that's progressing :p.

The mindset of early Christianity included women as teachers in their own homes (again I'm not claiming to be anything but a Christian, never have) with the change to hierarchy coming in with Rome and the shift to the form of Roman council. Therefore I can't agree with the Biblical aspect but only with that of the historical. If I have to be careful handling the meat of the word and regress to the milk then I'm probably in the wrong place to start with. Meaning I would not draw a line at limiting women within the church at all. That I don't see as biblical for too many reasons. That being said I don't have a problem discussing biblical topics with men either unless it's to be treated as someone unable to handle the word of God because of gender and the disrespect that goes with that.

If someone does not believe that women should be ordained they should look at Numbers 6:2 and see that God has ordained men and women to come to Him, in a vow of santification, for a while or a lifetime. God is not gender objective. There are very many more examples too. And of Jesus sending women to tell the believers such and such. But it's not for me to change anyone's mind.

It does get monotomous after awhile tho but truthfully it's not nearly as bad as it was 15 yrs ago and maybe someday when men see and not fall back to old ways it will change.

I didn't want Wilhemena left out of the discussion so I added her post as well.

I want to make sure everyone knows where I'm coming from. First I used to debate the topic 'for' female clergy and know quite well all of the arguments for it. Second I belong to a congregation who ordain female pastors and in fact ours is turning 70 and just put in her notice that she would be retiring so our congregation has chosen two pastoral candidates of which members can vote for. One is female and the other is a male candidate. And our out going female pastor did a great job I might add so this topic is very timely for me.

I believe Numbers 6:2 is talking about a vow or dedication to the Lord, I don't see where the verse is pointing to female priests/priestess or that Galatians 3:28 is either in the NT.

The funny thing is yesterday as common I attended two church services. The second one was at our Episcopal Cathedral. I like to occasionally check in there because I think they have the best liturgy in town and second I really like Fr. Tyler. But when it came time to speak the words of absolution it made me pause coming from a female and wondered was it efficacious coming from a female being that Christ wasn't shown to give the Keys to the kingdom of heaven to a female?
 

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I didn't want Wilhemena left out of the discussion so I added her post as well.

I want to make sure everyone knows where I'm coming from. First I used to debate the topic 'for' female clergy and know quite well all of the arguments for it. Second I belong to a congregation who ordain female pastors and in fact ours is turning 70 and just put in her notice that she would be retiring so our congregation has chosen two pastoral candidates of which members can vote for. One is female and the other is a male candidate. And our out going female pastor did a great job I might add so this topic is very timely for me.

I believe Numbers 6:2 is talking about a vow or dedication to the Lord, I don't see where the verse is pointing to female priests/priestess or that Galatians 3:28 is either in the NT.

The funny thing is yesterday as common I attended two church services. The second one was at our Episcopal Cathedral. I like to occasionally check in there because I think they have the best liturgy in town and second I really like Fr. Tyler. But when it came time to speak the words of absolution it made me pause coming from a female and wondered was it efficacious coming from a female being that Christ wasn't shown to give the Keys to the kingdom of heaven to a female?
I'm glad that Wilhemena has joined in too because any one that knows me knows that debating is not my forte nor what I enjoy or feel called to do. Feeling a call from the outside is much different than one from the inside. All I hear from direction now is let it play thru.
That is how outside pressure works on a person that they doubt the very things that they are doing. I know that well, but conviction overrides that.
My thought on priesthood is
1) there is only one high priest
2) we are a kingdom of the same
 
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