What is considered women teaching? Is posting studies taboo to you?

[MoreCoffee]

My signature states what I think of Paul's teachings and those who read to understand them. But proper interpretation needs more than one witness to prove true. "women should keep silent as the law says" does not have a corresponding OT reference to attribute it to, plain and simple.

The law reference could be to Genesis 3:16.

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
Genesis 3:16​

In the wisdom literature of the old testament a silent wife is regarded as a blessing.

A silent wife is a gift of the Lord, and there is nothing so precious as a disciplined soul. A modest wife adds charm to charm, and no balance can weigh the value of a chaste soul. Like the sun rising in the heights of the Lord, so is the beauty of a good wife in her well-ordered home. Like the shining lamp on the holy lampstand, so is a beautiful face on a stately figure. Like pillars of gold on a base of silver, so are beautiful feet with a steadfast heart.
Sirach 26:14-18​

Paul, however, does not rely on the law as justification for what he wrote. He says it is a command from the Lord.

If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:37
​

 

[Cassia]

The law reference could be to Genesis 3:16.

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
Genesis 3:16​

In the wisdom literature of the old testament a silent wife is regarded as a blessing.

A silent wife is a gift of the Lord, and there is nothing so precious as a disciplined soul. A modest wife adds charm to charm, and no balance can weigh the value of a chaste soul. Like the sun rising in the heights of the Lord, so is the beauty of a good wife in her well-ordered home. Like the shining lamp on the holy lampstand, so is a beautiful face on a stately figure. Like pillars of gold on a base of silver, so are beautiful feet with a steadfast heart.
Sirach 26:14-18​

Paul, however, does not rely on the law as justification for what he wrote. He says it is a command from the Lord.

If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:37
​

Oh for crying out loud. Is that what the catholics teach as truth? That doesn't say anything about keeping silent. But you can have it your way and I'll just shut up. I think a stravinski statement a plies quite well.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Oh for crying out loud. Is that what the catholics teach as truth? That doesn't say anything about keeping silent. But you can have it your way and I'll just shut up. I think a stravinski statement a plies quite well. Fu

No it's not Catholic teaching, it is what is in the bible. I told you what I think of this matter a few dozen posts ago. The bible says what it says, however, regardless of what I think is true.

I do not think that women ought to be silenced on general forums where a man may be reading so I have not devoted a lot of prayer and thought to the matter other than giving it some scant attention when somebody brings it up.

 

[Josiah]

1. I have no issue whatsoever with women "teaching" - whether in Sunday School, in adult Bible studies, by singing in the choir or reading the lections, and of course in schools and colleges. IMO, the biblical point about "keeping silent" refers to preaching (and even that I'm not 100% sure about.... Jewish and perhaps early Christian worship included a "Q&A" after the sermon that could get quite "lively" - it may be THAT is what Paul is suggesting women not participate in). CH is not a worship service so I have no issue.


2. I don't regard ANYTHING as a "woman's" topic. I can't think of ANYTHING a woman might be taught that a man should not also be taught.



Pax Christi



- Josiah

 

[JRT]

I regard the extreme patriarchy that is displayed in the Bible as the product of cultural attitudes and not anything that is God-ordained. My belief is that any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.

 

[Cassia]

I regard the extreme patriarchy that is displayed in the Bible as the product of cultural attitudes and not anything that is God-ordained. My belief is that any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.

Thank you. It's good to see that the truth prevails in some circles.

 

[atpollard]

Thank you. It's good to see that the truth prevails in some circles.

Respectfully, that is not TRUTH. It fails to comprehend the reality that God created men and women different with different roles and different expectations. It denies that Scripture means much of what it says, and it assumes that people are somehow fundamentally different and superior to those presented in scripture. None of which is actually TRUTH.

It is correct that women are not chattel. Scripture, and especially the God who breathed scripture has ALWAYS championed that position. However, there is a modern implied viewpoint that men and women are identical and interchangeable, and this is both not Biblical and not true.

 

[Cassia]

Respectfully, that is not TRUTH. It fails to comprehend the reality that God created men and women different with different roles and different expectations. It denies that Scripture means much of what it says, and it assumes that people are somehow fundamentally different and superior to those presented in scripture. None of which is actually TRUTH.

It is correct that women are not chattel. Scripture, and especially the God who breathed scripture has ALWAYS championed that position. However, there is a modern implied viewpoint that men and women are identical and interchangeable, and this is both not Biblical and not true.

Respectfully I hope that we can just agree to disagree. For what it's worth it's
not worth the argument. I hope that those who feel genitically in the position to lead can do a good job of it. God bless

 

[obsolete]

The law reference could be to Genesis 3:16.

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
Genesis 3:16​

In the wisdom literature of the old testament a silent wife is regarded as a blessing.

A silent wife is a gift of the Lord, and there is nothing so precious as a disciplined soul. A modest wife adds charm to charm, and no balance can weigh the value of a chaste soul. Like the sun rising in the heights of the Lord, so is the beauty of a good wife in her well-ordered home. Like the shining lamp on the holy lampstand, so is a beautiful face on a stately figure. Like pillars of gold on a base of silver, so are beautiful feet with a steadfast heart.
Sirach 26:14-18​

Paul, however, does not rely on the law as justification for what he wrote. He says it is a command from the Lord.

If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:37
​

The law referenced is from the book of Esther

 

[MoreCoffee]

The law referenced is from the book of Esther

What is the passage reference?

 

[Josiah]

Respectfully, that is not TRUTH. It fails to comprehend the reality that God created men and women different with different roles and different expectations. It denies that Scripture means much of what it says, and it assumes that people are somehow fundamentally different and superior to those presented in scripture. None of which is actually TRUTH.

It is correct that women are not chattel. Scripture, and especially the God who breathed scripture has ALWAYS championed that position. However, there is a modern implied viewpoint that men and women are identical and interchangeable, and this is both not Biblical and not true.

Men and women ARE different. I've known that for a long time (since I was a little boy, I'm sure). And I think it's a GREAT arrangement! I rejoice that God created things that way!

 

[pinacled]

The analogies of the Bride and Bridegroom place the church in the female role. So what is said to women can be further said to the church. The example given is of marriage. What is given in shadow finds it's reality in the substance.

There was a man that once had a wife. Her house was full of the spirit of knowledge.
She was taught by her mother all manner of woven thread. And her husband shepherded(eber) all the flocks of the house, male and female were rightly divided till a certain visitor came to ask a simple request.

Abiram was quite the host, concidering

 

[pinacled]

Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

 

[pinacled]

There is one that holds the 7 stars in his Hand.
And for the Church {congregation of 10, takes on meaning. When a family lays on hands it is the blessing passed from generation to generation.
7777.
father's 7, teach their wives 7, father's teach their sons 7, mother's teach their daughter's 7.

5 men to the north and 5 men to the south.

And if they follow Torah, they should not covet.
So the 5 northern look north to their wives and children.
The 5 southern look south to their wives and children.

And the house is not divided against itself.

 

[pinacled]

And thou shalt make curtains of goats' hair to be a covering upon the tabernacle: eleven curtains shalt thou make.
8 The length of one curtain shall be thirty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and the eleven curtains shall be all of one measure.
9 And thou shalt couple five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves, and shalt double the sixth curtain in the forefront of the tabernacle.
10 And thou shalt makefifty loops on the edge of the one curtain that is outmost in the coupling, and fifty loops in the edge of the curtain which coupleth the second.
11 And thou shalt make fifty taches of brass, and put the taches into the loops, and couple the tent together, that it may be one.

12 And the remnant that remaineth of the curtains of the tent, the half curtain that remaineth, shall hang over the backside of the tabernacle.
13 And a cubit on the one side, and a cubit on the other side of that which remaineth in the length of the curtains of the tent, it shall hang over the sides of the tabernacle on this side and on that side, to cover it.

7th<444
1rst day<444(1)
<444(2)
2nd day<444(3)
<444(4)
3rd day<444(5)

half way<444(1)

4th day<444(2)
<444(3)
5th day<444(4)
<444(5)
6th day<444(6)
<444(half that is left over. The Veil between the 7th day
6th doubled being the 7th day
7th<444

7th day wrapping the front and back of the week.
24 elders to the Crown of thorns.

Again the Menorah

 

[pinacled]

Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.
2 The length of one curtain shall be eight and twenty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and every one of the curtains shall have one measure.
3 The five curtains shall be coupled together one to another; and other five curtains shall be coupled one to another.
4 And thou shalt make loops of blue upon the edge of the one curtain from the selvedge in the coupling; and likewise shalt thou make in the uttermost edge of another curtain, in the coupling of the second.
5 Fifty loops shalt thou make in the one curtain, and fifty loops shalt thou make in the edge of the curtain that is in the coupling of the second; that the loops may take hold one of another.
6 And thou shalt make fifty taches of gold, and couple the curtains together with the taches: and it shall be one tabernacle.


2 Lamp Stands again

15 And thou shalt make boards for the tabernacle of ****tim wood standing up.
16 Ten cubits shall be the length of a board, and a cubit and a half shall be the breadth of one board.
17 Two tenons shall there be in one board, set in order one against another: thus shalt thou make for all the boards of the tabernacle.
18 And thou shalt make the boards for the tabernacle, twenty boards on the south side southward.
19 And thou shalt make forty sockets of silver under the twenty boards; two sockets under one board for his two tenons, and two sockets under another board for his two tenons.
20 And for the second side of the tabernacle on the north side there shall be twenty boards:
21 And their forty sockets of silver; two sockets under one board, and two sockets under another board.

North 2 and 20
Lamp Stand
40 Sockets of Silver

(1)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(2)7777 <curtain
-8tenons
-4 boards
(3)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(4)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(5)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards

South 2 and 20
Lamp Stand
40 Sockets of Silver

(1)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(2)7777 <curtain
-8tenons
-4 boards
(3)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(4)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(5)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards

 

[IACOBVS]

Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.
2 The length of one curtain shall be eight and twenty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and every one of the curtains shall have one measure.
3 The five curtains shall be coupled together one to another; and other five curtains shall be coupled one to another.
4 And thou shalt make loops of blue upon the edge of the one curtain from the selvedge in the coupling; and likewise shalt thou make in the uttermost edge of another curtain, in the coupling of the second.
5 Fifty loops shalt thou make in the one curtain, and fifty loops shalt thou make in the edge of the curtain that is in the coupling of the second; that the loops may take hold one of another.
6 And thou shalt make fifty taches of gold, and couple the curtains together with the taches: and it shall be one tabernacle.


2 Lamp Stands again

15 And thou shalt make boards for the tabernacle of ****tim wood standing up.
16 Ten cubits shall be the length of a board, and a cubit and a half shall be the breadth of one board.
17 Two tenons shall there be in one board, set in order one against another: thus shalt thou make for all the boards of the tabernacle.
18 And thou shalt make the boards for the tabernacle, twenty boards on the south side southward.
19 And thou shalt make forty sockets of silver under the twenty boards; two sockets under one board for his two tenons, and two sockets under another board for his two tenons.
20 And for the second side of the tabernacle on the north side there shall be twenty boards:
21 And their forty sockets of silver; two sockets under one board, and two sockets under another board.

North 2 and 20
Lamp Stand
40 Sockets of Silver

(1)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(2)7777 <curtain
-8tenons
-4 boards
(3)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(4)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(5)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards

South 2 and 20
Lamp Stand
40 Sockets of Silver

(1)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(2)7777 <curtain
-8tenons
-4 boards
(3)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(4)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(5)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards

Oh my! I shall have to get on that right away. I've been missing out on ... I don't know what. But I'll spend a considerable amount of time in prayer, or something, about this until I know where I've fallen short ... or something.

 

[MoreCoffee]

No more men teaching other men (or women) in this thread ... all those 777777 things left my head spinning

 

[popsthebuilder]

I posted this on 'the other' forum and so far have only gotten one reply. I thought I might get more participation here.

I do a lot of home studies ... daily in fact. And I`m excited about some of the things I`m learning. So I share many of them. But I find that participation on forums brings negative feedback. (not about the content of the posts) I`m not a pastor just a Christian. In your opinion should these studies be published in women`s forums only

No.

All are equal.

All are students.

What Christian holds to themselves, the things shown them by GOD?

furthermore; what sort of Christian agrees with one's words but not because of the sex of the individual relaying the message?

Women can be manipulative, and men easily swayed by such; but if you are spreading things shown to you to be true and also aligned with scripture, then kindly disregard the spiteful contenders and keep your eyes set on GOD.

people will judge.....forgive them indiscriminately unless they preach that the Holy Spirit is evil or causes evil.

peace

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

 

[JRT]

When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every other respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.

Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.