What is considered women teaching? Is posting studies taboo to you?

IACOBVS

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I posted this on 'the other' forum and so far have only gotten one reply. I thought I might get more participation here.

I do a lot of home studies ... daily in fact. And I`m excited about some of the things I`m learning. So I share many of them. But I find that participation on forums brings negative feedback. (not about the content of the posts) I`m not a pastor just a Christian. In your opinion should these studies be published in women`s forums only

In my opinion, you can post such things anywhere a man is allowed to post them. I believe that St. Paul was speaking into the culture of the day when he said all of the things which today sound extremely misogynistic. It would have been scandalous for a woman to speak in a public gathering in first century Greco-Roman culture. One needs to read the Bible with culture in mind. So post as God leads you ... as long as I agree with it. :p
 

hedrick

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The verse of Paul that refers to silence is also not a quote from old testament but is from rabitical law. Even Paul says "as the law says" That from the apostle so dead set against law.

Interpretation of these 2 verses is currently very contentious. I've been assuming largely based on 35 that there was a specific problem in Corinth that he was dealing with.

But commentaries are all over the map on this. A number currently think 34-35 is a non-Pauline insertion. Some think he was quoting people he disagrees with, and 36 is his rather sarcastic answer. One I looked at had a pretty weird interpretation that I'm never going to be able to explain here. 36-37 and the connection with 34-35 is even harder to make sense of. It doesn't look like the issue is women who want to be treated the same as men, but someone who is trying to lord it over others.

But one way or the other, 1 Cor 11:5 makes it clear that not all speech by women is prohibited, which is why only a contextual interpretation of some sort makes sense.
 
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MoreCoffee

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In my opinion, you can post such things anywhere a man is allowed to post them. I believe that St. Paul was speaking into the culture of the day when he said all of the things which today sound extremely misogynistic. It would have been scandalous for a woman to speak in a public gathering in first century Greco-Roman culture. One needs to read the Bible with culture in mind. So post as God leads you ... as long as I agree with it. :p

Cleopatra did a lot of talking in public
 

Cassia

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In my opinion, you can post such things anywhere a man is allowed to post them. I believe that St. Paul was speaking into the culture of the day when he said all of the things which today sound extremely misogynistic. It would have been scandalous for a woman to speak in a public gathering in first century Greco-Roman culture. One needs to read the Bible with culture in mind. So post as God leads you ... as long as I agree with it. :p
lol thank you for your generosity
 

Cassia

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Interpretation of these 2 verses is currently very contentious. I've been assuming largely based on 35 that there was a specific problem in Corinth that he was dealing with.

But commentaries are all over the map on this. A number currently think 34-35 is a non-Pauline insertion. Some think he was quoting people he disagrees with, and 36 is his rather sarcastic answer. One I looked at had a pretty weird interpretation that I'm never going to be able to explain here. 36-37 and the connection with 34-35 is even harder to make sense of. It doesn't look like the issue is women who want to be treated the same as men, but someone who is trying to lord it over others.

But one way or the other, 1 Cor 11:5 makes it clear that not all speech by women is prohibited, which is why only a contextual interpretation of some sort makes sense.
I'm a firm believer in God being in control of His own book and my reasoning for that is that of His ability apart from humans to have complete control over the ark in the hands of the Philistines. As far as the scripture to accompany Paul's comment being lacking except from the Tulmud and the fact that he called it law are enough for me to call it heresay in Christianity.
 

atpollard

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I don't think that as many now-adays do judging from the studies men have done that refute most if not all of the arguments against it.

Respectfully, there are many things that the Bible forbids and condemns that many in the church don't have a problem with today.
Acceptance by the majority never served the nation of Israel well as a yardstick for God changing his opinions, either.

My advice: Stick to what the Bible actually says.
 

atpollard

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The context for Paul's comment about women being silent in church is
What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting by, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues; but all things should be done decently and in order.
1 Corinthians 14:26-40
Paul attributes the prohibition on women speaking in church to the Lord [Jesus Christ].
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.
1 Timothy 2:1-15
The silence includes women being silent as far as teaching men is concerned. What one is to make of Paul's appeal to the angels I do not know. Many people read the passages that I've quoted and come to all sorts of interesting opinions about the intended meaning and what is applicable to christian women today. The opinions differ widely. It's an interesting matter for discussion. I am not inclined to think that women are to be ignored or silenced but many disagree with me on that.

Yay, actual scripture on a subject! :)
 

Cassia

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Respectfully, there are many things that the Bible forbids and condemns that many in the church don't have a problem with today.
Acceptance by the majority never served the nation of Israel well as a yardstick for God changing his opinions, either.

My advice: Stick to what the Bible actually says.
Thank you. That's what we're trying to do in this thread. Especially in the light of law and grace.
 

Cassia

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...
I believe Numbers 6:2 is talking about a vow or dedication to the Lord, I don't see where the verse is pointing to female priests/priestess or that Galatians 3:28 is either in the NT.
... But when it came time to speak the words of absolution it made me pause coming from a female and wondered was it efficacious coming from a female being that Christ wasn't shown to give the Keys to the kingdom of heaven to a female ?
Tigger in what way do you think that Numbers 6:2 and Galatians 3:28 show God's restrictions on females from the priesthood? And let's face it the keys were not given to any gentile at that point.
 
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Tigger

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Tiger in what way do you think that Numbers 6:2 and Galatians 3:28 show God's restrictions on females from the priesthood? And let's face it the keys were not given to any gentile at that point.

What they have in common is that they are all chosen leaders that are male that were given the keys, like I said none of them were female. You would think that if the keys were for females half of the chosen twelve would of been female but we don't even see one.
 

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The context for Paul's comment about women being silent in church is
What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting by, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues; but all things should be done decently and in order.
1 Corinthians 14:26-40
Paul attributes the prohibition on women speaking in church to the Lord [Jesus Christ].
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.
1 Timothy 2:1-15
The silence includes women being silent as far as teaching men is concerned. What one is to make of Paul's appeal to the angels I do not know. Many people read the passages that I've quoted and come to all sorts of interesting opinions about the intended meaning and what is applicable to christian women today. The opinions differ widely. It's an interesting matter for discussion. I am not inclined to think that women are to be ignored or silenced but many disagree with me on that..

Yay, actual scripture on a subject! :)

What part of silence of women scripture do you thing was not covered in the thread to the point of refuting that it is in fact real scripture or not just a comment of rabinical law on Paul's thoughts?
 

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What they have in common is that they are all chosen leaders that are male that were given the keys, like I said none of them were female. You would think that if the keys were for females half of the chosen twelve would of been female but we don't even see one.
They were all Jews too so why are gentile males included? And just Peter was given the keys so why say all 12 were? Jesus had lots of female disciples but the men were placed as the 12 of Jacob to sit in judgement of the 12 tribes. Why would that exclude anyone? Job's daughters were given an inheritance changing the only thing that Job did different after his encounter with God. Deborah was a leader but you have excluded women from leadership. Why? I could go on for quite awhile...
 

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What part of silence of women scripture do you thing was not covered in the thread to the point of refuting that it is in fact real scripture or not just a comment of rabinical law on Paul's thoughts?

1 Corinthians 14:26-40 explicitly attributes Paul's command for women to keep silent in church to the Lord. It is not rabbinical. It is Christian.
 

Cassia

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1 Corinthians 14:26-40 explicitly attributes Paul's command for women to keep silent in church to the Lord. It is not rabbinical. It is Christian.
Really? what part of everyone do you see as being male only?
26 How is it then, brethren? When ye come together every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
 

MoreCoffee

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Really? what part of everyone do you see as being male only?
26 How is it then, brethren? When ye come together every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

What I see is what 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 says. You see it too. What more need be said? What you make of it is up to you. I do not have a dog in the race.
 

Cassia

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What I see is what 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 says. You see it too. What more need be said? What you make of it is up to you. I do not have a dog in the race.
Being male makes you not a dog. Well Phoneceans here we come.
He came unto His own and they did not receive Him so He turned to the gentiles. If you place Paul's words quoting himself as facts then that is just weird.
 

MoreCoffee

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Being male makes you not a dog. Well Phoneceans here we come.
He came unto His own and they did not receive Him so He turned to the gentiles. If you place Paul's words quoting himself as facts then that is just weird.

It's a common belief among Christians that Paul's letters are holy scripture. They have authority for people who believe that they are inspired by God and without error.
 

Cassia

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It's a common belief among Christians that Paul's letters are holy scripture. They have authority for people who believe that they are inspired by God and without error.
My signature states what I think of Paul's teachings and those who read to understand them. But proper interpretation needs more than one witness to prove true. "women should keep silent as the law says" does not have a corresponding OT reference to attribute it to, plain and simple.
 

Tigger

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They were all Jews too so why are gentile males included? And just Peter was given the keys so why say all 12 were? Jesus had lots of female disciples but the men were placed as the 12 of Jacob to sit in judgement of the 12 tribes. Why would that exclude anyone? Job's daughters were given an inheritance changing the only thing that Job did different after his encounter with God. Deborah was a leader but you have excluded women from leadership. Why? I could go on for quite awhile...

Jesus made it clear that He came for Isreal first and then the gentiles. Christianity is built upon Judaism and it still took Him three years to disciple the twelve who were Jews, it most likely would of taken longer for gentiles who were coming out of paganism to get up to speed for leadship positions. And all twelve tribes of Isreal were headed up by his sons and not daughters. And Deborah was not a rabbi (clergy) again is the specific point I am making. Jesus also sets the standard as He is the head over the church as a husband is over the wife and the reasoning points all the way back to the garden od Eden with Adam and Eve.
 
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