Are We Saved by Grace or Decision?

Lamb

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I never said you create faith yourself or raise yourself, simply that He wants us to respond and some resisted Him.
Brighten posted a bunch of texts and I a few, too lazy to look em up, have to roller skate, maybe later. That's how enormously important I find this.

No one is denying that mankind has responses. The response isn't what saves though. The title of the thread asks Are we saved by grace or decision. So you agree that we're saved by grace? The response you have to that is your response but isn't the source of your salvation.
 

Lamb

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It's not me telling Him what to do, go save me, He wants me to ask and accept and ask Him to forgive my sins, repent and listen and choose for Him.
If someone's leg doesn't work He says: take your bed up and walk. There's no way they work that themselves, they obey the Word, have to, unless like in that city they didn't believe, He couldn't do a thing.


Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of you sins. He said, "It is finished."

God calls you.

God, by grace gifts you with faith.

By faith you believe it.

God is active in your salvation. He isn't sitting around in heaven waiting for someone to ask Him to intervene. There is no biblical citation whatsoever for that. But God being our redeemer has tons of scriptures.

Do you think you asked God as a nonbeliever? Not in scripture. Those who don't have faith don't seek God.

Do you think you can accept any of the Gospel as a nonbeliever? Not in scripture. Those who don't believe think the Gospel is foolisheness.

Do you think a nonbeliever can repent? Not in scripture. No one can turn to God unless the Holy Spirit enables...and that means once He intervenes that person has faith.

Do you think you can choose Him without faith? Not in scripture. John 15:16 You did not choose me but I chose you.
 

TurtleHare

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Don't be ridiculous. Why do you all use so many words to hijack what we are saying? Your quote is convoluted to confuse. And We know who authors confusion.

Yep Satan confuses men just the same as he's doing in the churches of today where man feels he has to contribute any amount to God's work so of course when a man insists he got a free gift because he's the one who accepted it you can easily see where that man is confused. Comes from satan like ya said.
 

Rens

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Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of you sins. He said, "It is finished."

God calls you.

God, by grace gifts you with faith.

By faith you believe it.

God is active in your salvation. He isn't sitting around in heaven waiting for someone to ask Him to intervene. There is no biblical citation whatsoever for that. But God being our redeemer has tons of scriptures.

Do you think you asked God as a nonbeliever? Not in scripture. Those who don't have faith don't seek God.

Do you think you can accept any of the Gospel as a nonbeliever? Not in scripture. Those who don't believe think the Gospel is foolisheness.

Do you think a nonbeliever can repent? Not in scripture. No one can turn to God unless the Holy Spirit enables...and that means once He intervenes that person has faith.

Do you think you can choose Him without faith? Not in scripture. John 15:16 You did not choose me but I chose you.

If He isn't waiting for someone to intervene why does Jesus say we must pray His Kingdom comes, why does Timothy say we must first and for all pray for all people.
If He does what He wants to do anyway noone should have to pray.

I had no saving faith when I put all those tests on Him: if this doesn't happen I don't believe in God. There's so many more people.

Once He intervenes that person has faith yes to pray that He forgives your sins and then you're saved. You get faith to do what He tells you and it's not from yourself.
I know when I was saved or not.
When you're saved you don't put God to a test cause He doesnt exist anyway.
 
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Rens

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You're not gonna tell me this girl was saved when she gave Jesus one week to prove Himself:

https://youtu.be/TJUh-Jeqfrg

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 
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Josiah

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Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of you sins. He said, "It is finished."

God calls you.

God, by grace gifts you with faith.

By faith you believe it.

God is active in your salvation. He isn't sitting around in heaven waiting for someone to ask Him to intervene. There is no biblical citation whatsoever for that. But God being our redeemer has tons of scriptures.

Do you think you asked God as a nonbeliever? Not in scripture. Those who don't have faith don't seek God.

Do you think you can accept any of the Gospel as a nonbeliever? Not in scripture. Those who don't believe think the Gospel is foolisheness.

Do you think a nonbeliever can repent? Not in scripture. No one can turn to God unless the Holy Spirit enables...and that means once He intervenes that person has faith.

Do you think you can choose Him without faith? Not in scripture. John 15:16 You did not choose me but I chose you.


TurtleHare said:
Yep Satan confuses men just the same as he's doing in the churches of today where man feels he has to contribute any amount to God's work so of course when a man insists he got a free gift because he's the one who accepted it you can easily see where that man is confused. Comes from satan like ya said.


.


Well put......


I agree the Gospel leaves us with some questions.... but no mandate that self insist that self must answer the questions of self (even if such destroys the whole point of Christianty) and that God must agree (even though it contradicts what He said). Since the Enlightenment, man has insisted there is no Mystery..... self knows everything..... the "logic" and "theories" of self trump Scripture.



Soli DEO Gloria


- Josiah
 

atpollard

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Yep Satan confuses men just the same as he's doing in the churches of today where man feels he has to contribute any amount to God's work so of course when a man insists he got a free gift because he's the one who accepted it you can easily see where that man is confused. Comes from satan like ya said.
So why isn't everyone saved? (If it is 100% based on God and 0% based on anything else.)
Doesn't God want everyone to be saved?

(It is easy to mock Arminians for rejecting Soli Deo Gloria, but are you prepared to give an answer to their hard questions.)
 

Josiah

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So why isn't everyone saved?

Is God mandated to answer every "question" of anyone? Or do questions serve as the norma normans for theology? How can God be three yet one? How can Jesus be 100% human and 100% man? Ah.... do my typing the questions prove or disprove anything whatsoever?

But I think the problem is not so much people having enormous pride and considering their own puny, fallen, limited brains as above God's written Word and revelation..... Even greater than such absurd egoism and subjecting of God to self, the greater problem is that often the "answers" self gives to the "questions" of self are regarded as normative in spite of God's words needing to be therefore deleted.

Until the 16th Century, Christian theology was called "Christian MYSTERIES." Until the Enlightenment and it's claim that the brain of self is above all (including God), when the theories of man "trumped" the revelation of God, people accepted that we have MYSTERIES - truths that simply are outside out questions, our understanding. Indeed, people once believed that Scripture was correct to state that we are STEWARDS of the MYSTERIES of God - not that it is our job to correct Scripture by our asking ourselves questions and then insisting that self is smarter than God and thus can answer it (making God agree with self).

Friend, your question might be valid. Perhaps. But it doesn't change the foundational truth of Christianity: Jesus is the Savior, it's Jesus who saves us. A puny, fallen, sinful, uber-limited, non-divine brain MIGHT theorize that God gets off seeing some eternally burn in hell or a host of other creations of a fallen, limited, sinful, puny, non-divine human brain. But that doesn't make it true.... and doesn't make the foundational point of Christianity wrong.

My now sainted grandfather used to say that confessing "I don't know" is often the wisest thing one can say. But it takes a humility that modern "Enlightened" man - so in love with human brains - finds hard to do.



Soli Deo Gloria



- Josiah
 

Lamb

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So why isn't everyone saved? (If it is 100% based on God and 0% based on anything else.)
Doesn't God want everyone to be saved?

(It is easy to mock Arminians for rejecting Soli Deo Gloria, but are you prepared to give an answer to their hard questions.)

Because men reject the Savior and forgiveness of sins. Man has the blame for his own damnation.

The bible does not say why God doesn't continue on with some of them in giving them faith again after they reject it. There are sheep he'll retrieve when they wander off, that much we know. But we also know that scriptures warn us of falling from faith or we'll be damned.
 

psalms 91

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Because men reject the Savior and forgiveness of sins. Man has the blame for his own damnation.

The bible does not say why God doesn't continue on with some of them in giving them faith again after they reject it. There are sheep he'll retrieve when they wander off, that much we know. But we also know that scriptures warn us of falling from faith or we'll be damned.
I agree with this com,pletely so if all is forgiven at the cross and man plays no part then the question is why are not all saved? The bible says that God wants all to be saved yet we know they are not so it seems that man does have free will and cannot get the gift without accepting it does it not?
 

Rens

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Because men reject the Savior and forgiveness of sins. Man has the blame for his own damnation.

The bible does not say why God doesn't continue on with some of them in giving them faith again after they reject it. There are sheep he'll retrieve when they wander off, that much we know. But we also know that scriptures warn us of falling from faith or we'll be damned.

They can't. They can't choose. It's a mystery why.
 

Lamb

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I agree with this com,pletely so if all is forgiven at the cross and man plays no part then the question is why are not all saved? The bible says that God wants all to be saved yet we know they are not so it seems that man does have free will and cannot get the gift without accepting it does it not?

You're totally excluding the job of the Holy Spirit...which is to give faith to believe.

Those who reject that faith given damn themselves.
 

Rens

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You're totally excluding the job of the Holy Spirit...which is to give faith to believe.

Those who reject that faith given damn themselves.

He didn't give those in John 666 faith.
 

Lamb

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He didn't give those in John 666 faith.

They initially were disciples (you wrote that in another thread I believe), so yes, they had faith. They walked away.
 

psalms 91

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You're totally excluding the job of the Holy Spirit...which is to give faith to believe.

Those who reject that faith given damn themselves.
I am not excludinng Him at all it is the Holy Spirit that draws, that convixcts but it is man who decides to accept or reject
 

Lamb

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I am not excludinng Him at all it is the Holy Spirit that draws, that convixcts but it is man who decides to accept or reject

We're saved by grace through faith and this not of ourselves. Ephesians

The Holy Spirit gives faith to believe. It's His job. Unbelievers cannot make a decision or accept. Those who have faith (remember, gift of faith by the Holy Spirit)...already have the Savior!
 

Rens

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They initially were disciples (you wrote that in another thread I believe), so yes, they had faith. They walked away.

Yes but I mean those others who ate the multiplied bread. They could not come to Him because it was not given to them from the Father. They were Jews. They were not saved.
Somewhere else it says He didn't enthrust Himself to them cause He knew what was in their heart.
 

Lamb

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Yes but I mean those others who ate the multiplied bread. They could not come to Him because it was not given to them from the Father. They were Jews. They were not saved.
Somewhere else it says He didn't enthrust Himself to them cause He knew what was in their heart.

Could you give some scripture to point to what you're saying so I can search?
 

psalms 91

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We're saved by grace through faith and this not of ourselves. Ephesians

The Holy Spirit gives faith to believe. It's His job. Unbelievers cannot make a decision or accept. Those who have faith (remember, gift of faith by the Holy Spirit)...already have the Savior!
Then you are saying all are saved cant have it both ways
 
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