It's time to replace theological bombast with unity in the Spirit

[Rens]

I do not think I'd pay anybody to pray for me.

Lol I won't either anymore.

 

[Rens]

That isn't spreading the Word nor is it prayer, and is different.
People should be compensated for services provided. The work of GOD not the work of man as the scriptures testify. If they want compensation of this material world, or even do it for the sake of reward in the hereafter then it is not for good reasons or the right one.

What is said about those who seek reward or payment form man for the things of GOD?


peace

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I just mean to say people expected him to jump up come over whenever they needed him, even in the middle of the night, he preached the Word like 4 days a week for different groups and then they expected him to do it for free plus extra counselling. One couple wanted him to give private lessons to their daughter with Down syndrom for free as an extra yet they were insane rich and too lazy to give lessons themselves to their own kid. A pastor is not a slave. Crazy. The other opposite of health and wealth preachers. In Acts noone had their own posessions.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I just stated scripture. It is not my idea but our Heavenly Father's. Maybe you should pray about it. Maybe you should agree with scripture and start paying your tithe.I posted the scripture for your edification.

According to what Law? The Law of Moses or of Grace? Of religious duty or a generous heart? Which do you suppose was true of the widow who received the praise of Christ?

 

[Rens]

According to what Law? The Law of Moses or of Grace? Of religious duty or a generous heart? Which do you suppose was true of the widow who received the praise of Christ?

Do you have financial problems imaginaryDay or any other problems? Hey just tithe to Creflo and all your problems will vanish. Oh btw in the O.T. it was not 10 percent but 30 LOL.
Ex always said: God is not the maffia, 10 percent, 10 percent, 10 percent!!!

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I do what I'm able to, which is more than I have been for a while. And the scripture that concerns the widow giving her last two cents, when it talks about the rich giving of their "wealth", some translations (NASB and the "New Living Translation") have it as they gave from their "surplus" (i.e. their 'extra')- not from the principal earnings.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If you want to give 10% or 11% or 21% or whatever you conceive a tithe to be then go ahead. Nobody is stopping you. But if you want to give cheerfully out of a grateful heart and the amount you give is less than 10% do not feel guilty, you are under no obligation to give 10% or more.

 

[Pedrito]

Getting back to the original topic …

“It's time to replace theological bombast with unity in the Spirit”

The idea is great. It has been proposed for a long, long time.

However ...

Amos the prophet, in Chapter 3 Verse 3 of the record of his prophecy, declares: “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?”

Pedrito suggests that as long as conflicting denominational doctrines are overlaid on Scripture – overlaid, instead of Scripture being permitted to show forth the original “faith once and for all delivered to the saints” – that the subject of this thread, as worthy and commendable as it is, will remain in fact a totally lost cause.

“Can two walk together, except they be agreed?”

==============================================================================================

Does anybody ever stop to consider what God thinks about the current situation?

Pedrito suspects it is not particularly pleasing in His sight.

Could it be that the hand of Satan is in there somewhere? Maybe?

 

[Cassia]

Yeah as only God can see the heart. As really no offense, but it is none of our business except for God's.

True dat :shake:

 

[Brighten04]

According to what Law? The Law of Moses or of Grace? Of religious duty or a generous heart? Which do you suppose was true of the widow who received the praise of Christ?

Oh brother, don't get offended. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. It was just a suggestion. You said you were suffering loss. I just made a suggestion because our Father made some promises associated with paying the the tithe. I have found that Our Father does not lie. And He is a promise keeper.

Malichi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

Look brother, our Father has given a challenge. He said "Prove me" which essentially says test me. He gave s permission to try Him. He said if you try Him by paying your tithe, He will open up the windows of Heaven and pour you out a blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it. It sounds to me that you could use that right about now.And, He said He will rebuke the devourer for YOUR sake. So the little penny grubbing imps that eat at your cash flow, He will rebuke. Don't you believe what He said?

You know what I don't like about the widow's mite story? We don't know how she faired after she gave her last. But since Lord Jesus noticed her sacrifice, I believed she was better than blessed. Now she did have the right attitude. And if you are going to tithe, you need to have the right attitude. First, you need to recognize that all that you do have comes from our Father. Second,He is not seeking to take anything from you, but wants to bless you. Three,Your obedience unlocks the blessing.

But, you don't HAVE to do anything.James tells us to be doers of the word and not hearers only. You can choose to be blessed, or choose to be broke. Both choices are before you.

 

[Brighten04]

I do what I'm able to, which is more than I have been for a while. And the scripture that concerns the widow giving her last two cents, when it talks about the rich giving of their "wealth", some translations (NASB and the "New Living Translation") have it as they gave from their "surplus" (i.e. their 'extra')- not from the principal earnings.

I had this discussion with my son-in-law some years ago. People just do not understand the tithe imho. I mean it is easier to give the dime out of a dallar than it is to give 100 dollars out of a thousand. But it is just a dime out of a dollar. Some rich people give, sure out of their surplus. But they do not consider the tithe, and God blesses them still. We are suppose to know, as children of God, what the tithe is, but satan has confused us, our Father's children with the lie that you don't have it to give.That way, he can steal your blessing. Wake up sisters and brothers.

 

[Brighten04]

Pedrito suggests that as long as conflicting denominational doctrines are overlaid on Scripture – overlaid, instead of Scripture being permitted to show forth the original “faith once and for all delivered to the saints” – that the subject of this thread, as worthy and commendable as it is, will remain in fact a totally lost cause.

Yes, but I believe more and more people are going to be casting off denominational oppression, bondags, and ,shackles. People are beginning to trust the Word over doctrines and dogmas of men.

 

[Cassia]

I hate (yes big word) the tything doctrine. Malaki is about not giving your best to God. The original church fed widows when their family could not care for them, and what was happening then was that the Pharisees had the law of Corman (something like that) that said it's ok to not look after parents when giving to temple instead. Jesus accused them of ignoring mercy and justice because of that.

When a person has the chose between eating, paying bills or tything and chooses necessities first they should not be condemned for it. Instead they should be receiving, not giving. People think that money is the only form of giving.

How about instead tythe 10% of your time. Yea give God 2 1/2 hrs of your time every day.

Which do you think God would prefer? I think the latter.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Oh brother, don't get offended. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. It was just a suggestion. You said you were suffering loss. I just made a suggestion because our Father made some promises associated with paying the the tithe. I have found that Our Father does not lie. And He is a promise keeper.

I'm really not offended, I just asked another question (that you preferred not to answer, and that's fine).

Malichi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

Look brother, our Father has given a challenge. He said "Prove me" which essentially says test me. He gave s permission to try Him. He said if you try Him by paying your tithe, He will open up the windows of Heaven and pour you out a blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it. It sounds to me that you could use that right about now.And, He said He will rebuke the devourer for YOUR sake. So the little penny grubbing imps that eat at your cash flow, He will rebuke. Don't you believe what He said?

Of course. However this "promise" was to the "sons of Jacob". They were ignoring the Law of Moses. God said "Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts (Mal. 3:7a), and they asked "how"? The instruction to tithe was one of several ways.

You know what I don't like about the widow's mite story? We don't know how she fared after she gave her last. But since Lord Jesus noticed her sacrifice, I believed she was better than blessed.

I do as well. But is she blessed for following the Law of Moses or of Grace? Which Law did Christ recognize?

Now she did have the right attitude. And if you are going to tithe, you need to have the right attitude. First, you need to recognize that all that you do have comes from our Father.

Of course

Second,He is not seeking to take anything from you, but wants to bless you.

Define "bless" as you see it.

Three,Your obedience unlocks the blessing.

What do you mean? I'm not good at understanding these little catch-phrases.

But, you don't HAVE to do anything.James tells us to be doers of the word and not hearers only.

Yes.

You can choose to be blessed, or choose to be broke. Both choices are before you.

I continue - we all continue - with life because of the grace that God has shown us. If I thought that I could elevate my 'stature' by doing, giving, working, according to the Law, then I would be doing the works of the Law. But since we are under grace, the Law of grace prompts me to work - not to elevate myself, but Him. So if I am in poverty or wealth, it is by Him and for Him.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Yes, but I believe more and more people are going to be casting off denominational oppression, bondags, and ,shackles. People are beginning to trust the Word over doctrines and dogmas of men.

In "(trusting) the Word (sic) over doctrines and dogmas..." why is the "Law" of the tithe so important? It actually becomes dogmatic itself:

1. An official system of principles or tenets concerning faith, morals, behavior, etc., as of a church.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dogma

 

[Rens]

I hate (yes big word) the tything doctrine. Malaki is about not giving your best to God. The original church fed widows when their family could not care for them, and what was happening then was that the Pharisees had the law of Corman (something like that) that said it's ok to not look after parents when giving to temple instead. Jesus accused them of ignoring mercy and justice because of that.

When a person has the chose between eating, paying bills or tything and chooses necessities first they should not be condemned for it. Instead they should be receiving, not giving. People think that money is the only form of giving.

How about instead tythe 10% of your time. Yea give God 2 1/2 hrs of your time every day.

Which do you think God would prefer? I think the latter.

No the latter is also nonsense. I used to do that. Just another man made rule.
N.T. doesn't tell us to tithe. I do though to help my ex so he doesn't have to go to the food bank but the only reason I can do that is because my dad refuses to let my mom tithe to her pastor who has had a full time job all his life, now retired and has a bigger house than him and money enough. He gives it to me and I give most to my ex lol and he knows but it's okay, cause ex takes good care of his grand kids. Lol and just recently dad said he believed in God. All that time he gave so much he was an atheist. The people who gave me clothes when I had nothing were my muslim collegues.

https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-4-why-you-should-not-tithe-selected-scriptures

I went to one church where they didn't preach on tithing anymore, they said you can also give a fridge or clothes or food to a brother in need. Lol got a bag of clothes from them.

 

[Rens]

I was on cf singles 2 years ago. I just mentioned I had nothing to eat, cause I'm like: all those kids in school with 2 parents who work go on a holiday, so lolz I took mine on a way too expensive one and had to eat not much the next 2 months, but a guy thought I just had no money, he was 25 and he pm'd me. He wanted to give me thousands cause he read that. So sweet. I said no man I just spent too much, don't just give to anyone, you're too good for this world, but I'll never forget.

 

[Brighten04]

Of course. However this "promise" was to the "sons of Jacob". They were ignoring the Law of Moses. God said "Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts (Mal. 3:7a), and they asked "how"? The instruction to tithe was one of several ways.

Yep, and you are. Christians do not know who they are. The identity thief has stolen our identity. The sad part is most refuse their identity.
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I do as well. But is she blessed for following the Law of Moses or of Grace? Which Law did Christ recognize?

IMHO she was blessed for her love of Our Father.

Define "bless" as you see it.

As I see it is the pouring out of favor.

What do you mean? I'm not good at understanding these little catch-phrases.

It was NOT a catch phrase. But you see it as one. Example. You want to gain access into your house but you need the right key to unlock the door.

Matthew 16:19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I continue - we all continue - with life because of the grace that God has shown us. If I thought that I could elevate my 'stature' by doing, giving, working, according to the Law, then I would be doing the works of the Law. But since we are under grace, the Law of grace prompts me to work - not to elevate myself, but Him. So if I am in poverty or wealth, it is by Him and for Him.

Oh, that is a nice religious response.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Define "bless" as you see it.

As I see it is the pouring out of favor.

That doesn't help, can you explain more?

I'm not good at understanding these little catch-phrases.

You want to gain access into your house but you need the right key to unlock the door.

Matthew 16:19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Your scripture is grossly mis-applied. Christ was addressing Peter and the disciples:

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

I continue - we all continue - with life because of the grace that God has shown us. If I thought that I could elevate my 'stature' by doing, giving, working, according to the Law, then I would be doing the works of the Law. But since we are under grace, the Law of grace prompts me to work - not to elevate myself, but Him. So if I am in poverty or wealth, it is by Him and for Him.

Oh, that is a nice religious response.

It's a practical response. Again, one for which you don't have an answer, and that's fine.

 

[Brighten04]

That doesn't help, can you explain more?




Your scripture is grossly mis-applied. Christ was addressing Peter and the disciples:








It's a practical response. Again, one for which you don't have an answer, and that's fine.

No I won't explain more because, frankly, I don't think you want to know or understand.

So you think what Lord Jesus said to the twelve is not meant for you? Ok that is fine with me. Why do you even need the scriptures if it does not meant for you?

Yes I have a response that is more practical.But, it won't do me any good to share it with you right now.

 

[Brighten04]

That doesn't help, can you explain more?




Your scripture is grossly mis-applied. Christ was addressing Peter and the disciples:








It's a practical response. Again, one for which you don't have an answer, and that's fine.

No I won't explain more because, frankly, I don't think you want to know or understand.

So you think what Lord Jesus said to the twelve is not meant for you? Ok that is fine with me. Why do you even need the scriptures if it does not meant for you?

Yes I have a response that is more practical.But, it won't do me any good to share it with you right now.