Five Reasons Why Babies Should be Baptized...

ImaginaryDay2

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Really, now! I'd ask, where do ppl get this stuff, but sadly it's all too plain to see.
Religion.
...but the religionism of denominations like Roman Catholicism and Lutheranism.

Actually, you can blame the Pentecostals for teaching me that one. One of the few things they got right (sorry for the 'snip' but I need to change the order of your post a bit).

Strange bedfellows to say the least.

In that instance, very strange. But I digress...

But not the pure and undefiled religion of visiting widows and orphans in their affliction...

A couple of links for your consideration:

'Lutheran World Relief': https://lwr.org/
'Catholic Charities USA': https://catholiccharitiesusa.org/
 

Rens

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Actually, you can blame the Pentecostals for teaching me that one.

Yes I heard some pentecostals or evangelical whatever preach that too. I agree it's important and should be part of conversion, they shouldn't have split it up and put less emphasis on baptism, it's more powerful than just being symbolical, but I don't believe it's how you get saved. Yes in a way, if you refuse to listen and get baptized you might wonder if you're even saved, but the guy next to Jesus on the cross couldn't get baptized in water but he was baptized in His death.
 

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Tell me again how infants recognize that ...I guess I'm just not understanding it...

How do ANY of us come to faith? The Holy Spirit uses the Word and it is alive and active (Hebrews 4:12). Man has no capability of coming to faith on his own. It's the job of the Holy Spirit and he doesn't need our assistance.
 

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Oh man, the religionism sometimes gets so deep, I really need to get higher boots.
Water-baptism ... works forgiveness of sins?????
Water-baptism ... delivers from death and the devil ?????
Water-baptism ... gives eternal salvation to all who believe this ?????
And Water-baptism ... is a regenerative process ?????

Really, now! I'd ask, where do ppl get this stuff, but sadly it's all too plain to see.
Religion.
But not the pure and undefiled religion of visiting widows and orphans in their affliction, but the religionism of denominations like RomanCatholicism and Lutheranism.
Strange bedfellows to say the least.

And what's more head-banging-against-the-wall crazy is that it comes from some of the very same ppl that say we contribute Nothing to our salvation, that we may just as well be automatonic dummies sitting in a pile somewhere until God comes along and imposes salvation on us.

Now, all the sudden, it seems we don't even have forgiveness of sins, we don't have victory over death and the devil, an haven't been given eternal salvation, unless and until we go get all wet?!
Just crazy.

And a 'regenerative process'? What's that supposed to mean?!
(No, no, please don't answer with more misappropriated
or misapplied bible verses.)
A process? How long does this regeneration take?
How long is this process?

Ppl, oh my good good ppl, my friends and brothers and sisters, JESUS is the One, HE paid it all ON THE CROSS. We are saved by grace through faith in His finished work ON THE CROSS! FAITH, not water.

Some folks are so afraid of being mistaken for taking ANY credit for salvation, they don't even want to breathe the word 'decision' in the same room as grace, and I understand that, but then want to say our forgiveness and salvation relies, at least in part, on OUR water-baptism?!
It just gets curiouser and curiouser.

If we're saved, we should be rejoicing together in that.
I guess the question is, are you saved? And if so, by whom and/or by what?

Do you know that the bible says "be baptized" and that it is passive in the original language? That means something is happening to you.

In baptism the Holy Spirit brings to us what happened at the cross because God put His promise there. Did you read through all those scriptures that I posted in my friend's bible study? So many pieces of scripture that state it's God's work and how it's connected to Jesus.

We don't baptize ourselves. It's not a work we do but something God does in us.

And no need for all the flaming you're doing in your posts, btw.
 

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Yes I heard some pentecostals or evangelical whatever preach that too. I agree it's important and should be part of conversion, they shouldn't have split it up and put less emphasis on baptism, it's more powerful than just being symbolical, but I don't believe it's how you get saved. Yes in a way, if you refuse to listen and get baptized you might wonder if you're even saved, but the guy next to Jesus on the cross couldn't get baptized in water but he was baptized in His death.


Yes, the thief did not get baptized. Baptism is necessary because God commands it but not absolutely necessary because we're saved by grace through faith and even though faith is given in baptism (by God's Word), it is also given when we hear/read the scriptures. It's give as a free gift by the Holy Spirit.
 

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Ah it is connected. Don't make a decision. Not necessary for salvation. So babies don't have to make a decision either.

Baptism can give faith because it has God's promises connected to the cross.

Nonbelievers cannot make a decision for God as scriptures tell us. Only believers want to be with God and that's because they're given faith. Those who grow up (who haven't yet been baptized) and get baptized do so because the Holy Spirit urges them and they already have faith. But baptism still brings the promises that God gives in it, see the scriptures I posted from my friend's bible study.
 

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This is a Christian forum. Be kind to one another as you post. Refer to the Examples of Flaming guide if you need assistance in learning how to love your neighbor while posting.

This thread has gone through a clean up. Flaming will now end.
 
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Rens

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Why baptize babies?
Cause people can start a good fight over it and beat each other up.
I'm sorry.
 

TurtleHare

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Why baptize babies?
Cause people can start a good fight over it and beat each other up.
I'm sorry.

sorry not sorry? Sounds like that commercial.

Anywhoo has anyone posted the verses from the bible or even Jesus himself that says you can't baptize babies? Ain't seen one yet.
 

psalms 91

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As you well know there is no scriptures saying that any more than there are saying you should baptize a baby, will you lose salvation over it, no. So des it really matter that I believe all you are doing is getting a baby wet as I think there is so much more that is represented by baptism and that it is a decision, not one made for you. Either way we will both still be saved
 

atpollard

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Anywhoo has anyone posted the verses from the bible or even Jesus himself that says you can't baptize babies? Ain't seen one yet.
Neither has a single verse been posted that any baptism recorded in scripture was ever performed on a single baby. Not even one.

But just to humor you, here are two verses that say you SHOULDN'T baptize babies:

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
(The baby did not repent, so he/she should not be baptized)

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.
(Crispus entire household BELIEVED and was baptized ... babies can not understand, therefore everyone who was baptized - the entire household - was old enough to believe.)

Now you have two scripture verses.
I am still waiting for a verse that says you MUST baptize a baby.
 

TurtleHare

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Neither has a single verse been posted that any baptism recorded in scripture was ever performed on a single baby. Not even one.

But just to humor you, here are two verses that say you SHOULDN'T baptize babies:

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
(The baby did not repent, so he/she should not be baptized)

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.
(Crispus entire household BELIEVED and was baptized ... babies can not understand, therefore everyone who was baptized - the entire household - was old enough to believe.)

Now you have two scripture verses.
I am still waiting for a verse that says you MUST baptize a baby.

I'm thinking here how you can exclude babies from entire households because you don't think God can do anything in baptism because the verse you provide for entire households actually proves my point more than it does yours. Josiahs post about repent and baptized is clearly saying that it's not repent then be baptized.
 

user1234

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I'm thinking here how you can exclude babies from entire householdsWhen? Where was it said babies were excluded from entire households?!
because you don't think God can do anything in baptism Nice accusation, REAL nice! because the verse you provide for entire households actually proves my point more than it does yours. No it doesn't, it says his entire household believed in the Lord. Where's the indication there was a baby or that a baby believed?! Josiahs post about repent and baptized is clearly saying that it's not repent then be baptized.
Where's the baby? Also ... Verses41a, 42 ~THEN they that GLADLY RECEIVED his word were baptized: ..... And they continued steadfastly in the apostle's doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.~ Babies doing all that? Naahh, don't think so.
 

Josiah

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Where's the baby? Also ... Verses41a, 42 ~THEN they that GLADLY RECEIVED his word were baptized: ..... And they continued steadfastly in the apostle's doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.~ Babies doing all that? Naahh, don't think so.

Nowhere is it specifically stated that those under the (never stated) age of X must or must not be baptized. Those who insist those under that age are forbidden to be baptized have no specific verse to quote.... those who insist they are mandated to be baptized have no specific verse to quote.

But IMO,

1. Those who forbid those under the (never disclosed) age of X have the 'burden of proof." After all, they don't believe the commandment to teach (given in the same commandment, the same sentence) has such an age mandate.... they don't think the commandment to love has an age mandate.... they don't think ANY other commandment has an age mandate - so why this one? If all the callings and commandments of God applied only to those over the (never disclosed) age of X but the command to Baptize didn't specifically state that - there would be a case to say it applies there too (as in all other cases). But I think the situation is the opposite.

2. A lot of the arguments used to support the prohibition of baptizing any under the age of X are not only wrong but very troubling and very unbiblical: Such as 1) God is rendered impotent by those under that (we don't say what age it is) age of X! 2) God cannot bless anyone under the age of X! 3) God requires prior permission before He can bless them or be gracious to them 4) Only those with an IQ above "X" (never told what IQ that is) or who have an education under "X" (never told what that is) mean that God cannot act or bless or give to them. The arguments used all seem pretty baseless.... and often unbiblical.

3. The whole premise that we can only do what we specifically see modeled in the Bible is silly. Then why are you posting on the Internet? Why does your church use books, electricity, powerpoint? Why baptized in a building in a big pool? Why pass around Weber's White Bread and little plastic cups of Welch's Concord Grape Juice? Changes are, nearly all your church does is not specifically exampled anywhere in the Bible. And why baptize Swedes or Russians or Koreans or Native Americans or Australians.... not a single example of them being baptized in the Bible. And why have Sunday School? Youth Groups? None in the Bible....

4. I look at the following verses.... and they seem very INCLUSIVE to me, not extremely EXCLUSIVE: Matthew 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 16:15. And when the foundational argument is used that little ones render God impotent and that they can't have faith, I not only can't think of a single verse that says that but I think of Matthew 18:6 Mark 10:13-15


Wondering if anyone actually watched the video in the opening post..... or studied the Scriptures Lamm provided..... ??????



- Josiah
 

Rens

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Where's the baby? Also ... Verses41a, 42 ~THEN they that GLADLY RECEIVED his word were baptized: ..... And they continued steadfastly in the apostle's doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.~ Babies doing all that? Naahh, don't think so.

Mine did. Ate crackers and drank juice, but no baptize, noooo he has to wait 12 years. Lol it all don't make much sense to me those rules churches make. In a reformed church they can get baptized but not take the supper. Whatever.
In one evangelical church my kids wanted communion they even had given their heart to Jesus and couldn't get it. Pastor got grumpy about it lolz. Talk about man made religion.
 

user1234

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Mine did. Ate crackers and drank juice, but no baptize, noooo he has to wait 12 years. Lol it all don't make much sense to me those rules churches make. In a reformed church they can get baptized but not take the supper. Whatever.
In one evangelical church my kids wanted communion they even had given their heart to Jesus and couldn't get it. Pastor got grumpy about it lolz. Talk about man made religion.
Lol, yes unbelievable. Anytime someone wants to lift up Jesus or lift a loved up to Jesus, then, ...Praise the Lord, what's the problem? It's when certain rituals are forced on ppl, or denominational rules are imposed to make other ppl feel inferior that's the problem.

Yes, within an individual local church, there may be certain things that make the occasion more beneficial for everyone.
In our church, we may get 2000 adults on a Sun morn or Wed nite.
To try to cram another possible 500 kids or more in there would be quite distracting.

So for 13 and under, we have great things set up. There's lots of staff and volunteer parents, the littlest ones have good care and places to play and learn, the pre-teens not only grow and learn, but actually minister in different ways. Ive seen kids help with the food cupboard, they do projects to help the missions, and they're not stuck with us bunch of old fogies while we work our way through the bible, especially when we're in the portions of scripture like the detailed dimensions of the Temple, or the Ark, or who begat who (yucko snore lol) So it works out great for everybody. And exceptions are always made, sometimes a kid just got out of the hospital, or maybe a family is going through something and it's better for them to be together, etc, .....And on Sun nite there's less ppl, so it's easier IF an exception must be made. We're not ogres, we're christians, and it's the body of Christ in action.

Some ppl dont like the policy, someone close to me said (years ago) she wouldnt go there bc she couldnt bring her little ones in. But imagine if everyone did that? Then you have parents bringing in crayons and coloring books to keep the little darlings occupied while theyre squirming under the pews. Oy.

And in a church sanctuary that size, on any give day there's going to be someone going through some tragedy, a terminal illness, grieving a recent loss, struggling with relationships, finances, physical, emotional, spiritual needs..... We're there to worship, pray, and study God's Word. Having the littlest kids in the school rooms makes more sense and everybody's happy.
So rules like that can be good. But the religious rules and rituals, especially ones that keep ppl from freely enjoying a relationship with Jesus, ought not be. GBU. :)

Crackers and juice, eh? Now I'm hungry. :=D:
 

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I like how they had kids services for everyone on sunday in Toronto. Bring the adults to another room if they don't like it. Churches are always primarily focused on adults.
Once said to my ex when all the parents were too lazy to teach the kids: keep a kids sermon. Let the grown ups go play with crayons or watch movies. Then they maybe know what it is.
 

Josiah

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just to humor you, here are two verses that say you SHOULDN'T baptize babies:

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
(The baby did not repent, so he/she should not be baptized)

1. Interesting you snipped it, cutting off the next verse: Acts 2:39

2. Your whole premise depends on deleting the word in the text ("and") and substituting a different, foreign, absent word so that it fits your pov ("then")



Acts 18:8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.


1. Okay, so you searched and you found a verse where it seems everyone first believed. There are also verses that do not so state. So what?

2. Even IF every example that happens to be recorded in the Bible was of ones who FIRST believed (and that's not the case), the whole premise that we can only do what we specifically see modeled in the Bible is silly. Then why are you posting on the Internet? Why does your church use books, electricity, powerpoint? Why baptized in a building in a big pool? Why pass around Weber's White Bread and little plastic cups of Welch's Concord Grape Juice? Chances are, nearly all your church does is not specifically exampled anywhere in the Bible. And why baptize Swedes or Russians or Koreans or Native Americans or Australians.... not a single example of them being baptized in the Bible. Why have a Gentile doing the Baptism, not a single example of that anywhere in the Bible. And why have Sunday School? Youth Groups? why have a church website? None in the Bible.... Even you reject this premise, so why should anyone accept it?



babies can not understand


Please quote the verses that state God can't do something for us unless we first "understand" it. Now, I do notice how you so carefully avoided saying they can't believe because of course the Bible DOES say that "little ones" can believe. Just as I can believe in God but I don't understand that, I can believe in the Two Natures of Christ but my brain is entirely unable to wrap itself around that to "understand" it.


I look at the following verses.... and they seem very INCLUSIVE to me, not extremely EXCLUSIVE: Matthew 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 16:15. And when the foundational argument is used that little ones render God impotent and that they can't have faith, I not only can't think of a single verse that says that but I think of Matthew 18:6 Mark 10:13-15



- Josiah




-
 

Rens

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If you dont have to make a choice you can be baptized as a baby so its the exact same useless discussion.
Just do what you want, who cares.
One guy on a Dutch reformed forum asked if he should baptize his baby. He left the thread cause for 100 pages there were only useless fights lol.
 

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If you dont have to make a choice you can be baptized as a baby so its the exact same useless discussion.
Just do what you want, who cares.
One guy on a Dutch reformed forum asked if he should baptize his baby. He left the thread cause for 100 pages there were only useless fights lol.

What do you mean by "Just do what you want, who cares."
 
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