Five Reasons Why Babies Should be Baptized...

[user1234]

I do not know why people wait for years to receive blessings from God in baptism. I really don't think they understand that God is at work through the waters with His word.

Do you not feel that the word of God is effective in that it says what it will do?

I do not know of any church where babies are baptized that the word of God is not first preached, most importantly the Gospel since it's the good news that the Holy Spirit uses to bring us to faith.

So how is God at work through 'the waters'?
A person believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour,
And they are saved, are they not?
Are they saved then?
How Long? (No jokes, Rens :=D: )

A week, a month, a year?
If they're saved, they're saved, right?

Sure, it's great to do a public ceremony to testify that you have been saved, and you identify with Jesus' death and resurrection on your behalf.
A public declaration that you belong to Jesus Christ.

Or if a parent takes their child, they're saying that child belongs to Jesus, at least as long as or until the child is old enough/understands enough to decide if he wants to believe in or reject Jesus.


Personally, I'd like to see more water-baptisms.
And without all the religious mumbo-jumbo attached to it.
I wouldn't mind doing a re-dedication ceremony every year, saying Jesus saved me and in case anybody was wondering, I'm still saved, not because I have fear of losing it, not because getting in this water (pool, lake, river, ocean, whatever) but because Jesus is my Saviour and I identify with the fact that without Him dying for my sins and rising from the grave, I'm a dead man walking.

But that ceremony doesn't make anyone more or less saved, anymore than a married couple re-newing their vows makes them any more married than they already are.

Some ppl think 'why do that?' we said them once and we meant it. That's fine too.
Others do it to say before God and man we are still just as much in love as we ever were, maybe more, and we're thankful and happy to show it. That's fine too.
Maybe it's an excuse to gather in joy and celebrate with loved ones, but we have anniversary parties also, so there ya go.

I think water-baptism is a good thing, but all the religionism and requirement, or some other teaching that God's Word is of no effect or a person's salvation doesn't count until, or unless it's conjoined with, water-baptism, is not such a good thing, and misses the mark of what JESUS accomplished FOR US through HIS death ON THE CROSS and RESURRECTION from the grave.

 

[Lamb]

I have posted these before and parts in this thread, parts in other threads.

This is a bible study a friend of mine did years ago and I have been given permission to repost. It will be in 2 parts since it's so long.

1. WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM?

1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:3-10. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through Baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

Galatians 3:27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Eph. 5:26. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

Titus 3:5. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:11. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Acts 22:16. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

* Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.


2. WHO IS TO BE BAPTIZED?

Matthew 28:19-20. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-16. And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


2. Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

* Note: The burden of proof lies on those who would choose to deny God’s gift of Baptism to an entire class of people.


3. ARE THERE ANY INDICATIONS IN THE BIBLE THAT INFANTS WERE BAPTIZED?

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

* Note: Circumcision was a rite associated almost exclusively with infants (eight days old). It would be odd to refer to Baptism as the “circumcision of Christ” if Baptism of infants was to be forbidden while circumcision was given almost exclusively to infants. (Note also that infants did receive Jewish proselyte baptism.)

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Acts 16:14-15. One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.

1 Corinthians 1:16. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.

Acts 16:33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

* Note: Households included all members of the family (which usually included extended family) as well as servants and their families. For this reason, it would be unlikely that none of the households referred to above included a baby.

* Note: There is very strong historical evidence that Infant Baptism has been the common practice of the Christian Church since the first century of the Christian era, and was almost entirely unopposed until the 1500’s. For more information, see http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/kastens.htm. Historical information from outside the Bible does not prove what is right, but humility would suggest that we should think twice before concluding that the whole Christian Church got it wrong for about one and a half millennia — especially when it is seen that a strong Biblical case can be made for infant Baptism.

 

[Lamb]

4. ARE INFANTS IN NEED OF THE BLESSINGS THAT BAPTISM GIVES?

Psalm 51:5. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Ecclesiastes 7:20. For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Romans 3:20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

John 3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3. Romans 8:7. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Ephesians 2:1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.


5. ARE INFANTS CAPABLE OF RECEIVING GOD’S BLESSINGS?

Luke 1:15. For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

Luke 1:41-44. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice and said, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.'"

* John the Baptist is an example of the Holy Spirit being active in an infant. Since Baptism is associated with receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), this indicates that infants can receive this benefit of Baptism. We are not to deny this gift to children, but are to bring them to Him for this blessing.

Luke 18:15-17. And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, 'Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.''

* Note: The Greek word translated “babies” in this passage (brephe) referred to children in the womb and newborns. These were babies, not older children.

* Note: Our Lord Jesus clearly states that infants can receive the kingdom of God. Since they were sinful from conception, and because that which is born of the flesh is flesh (which is hostile to God), this means that it must also be possible for infants to be born of the Spirit — otherwise, they could not receive the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-6. At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'' And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Matthew 21:15-16. But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant. "Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read, 'From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'?"

* Note: Since we already know from God’s Word that infants can receive the Holy Spirit and can receive the kingdom of God, it should not surprise us that Jesus here refers to small children believing in Him (which could also be translated as having faith in Him) and children and infants praising Him. It is the Holy Spirit who creates faith, and the kingdom of God is received by faith.

* Note: Since Jesus says that small children can believe in Him, we can properly speak of small children who are believers in Christ — “Christians.” If they are capable of being Christians, they should not be denied Baptism.

* Note: This (small children being believers) is reflected in early Christian tomb inscriptions. The faith of infants is also referred to in the writings of important teachers in the early church (such as Augustine). Following are quotes from a few pastors and theologians about the faith of these little ones who believe in Christ:



Dr. Martin Chemnitz: "Although we can neither understand nor explain in words what may be the nature of that action or operation of the Holy Spirit in infants who are baptized, nevertheless the Word of God leaves no doubt that such action and operation does occur. This which the Holy Spirit produces in infants we call faith and say that infants believe."

Dr. Johann Gerhard: "Even though we do not understand what all takes place with faith in the tiny, little children, yet we should hold the Word of God in such reverence that we do not deny what it so clearly witnesses to regarding the faith of little children."

Dr. David Scaer: "Surely, if infant brains can process human language and make sense out of their environment, they can process the divine language which proceeds from the mouth of God and calls to faith. It would be strange to assert that the words of the Holy Spirit lack the efficaciousness which human language has with infants."

Dr. William Arndt: “If the question is asked how an infant, unconscious of what is happening around it and unable to understand the meaning of Baptism, can believe, the answer is that not we but the Holy Spirit creates faith in the child receiving Holy Baptism and that He can perform that miracle and take up His dwelling in children as well as in people who are grown up.”

Dr. Robert Kolb: “The Word of God is powerful enough, when uttered, to change even a godless heart, which is no less responsive and helpless than any infant.”

Dr. Lowell Green: “God does not need human cooperation. In fact, faith is the setting aside of our own activity in order that God may work in us.”


* Note: Those who say that a lack of mature reason precludes infants from having faith are encouraged to consider what the Bible says about natural man’s reason and faith -- see, for example: 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, Romans 8:6-7, 1 Timothy 6:20-21. True wisdom does not precede faith but is given by God and received by the faithful as a gift. The reasoning of an unbelieving adult is not a prerequisite to faith, but rather fights against faith.

Additional resources:

A good discussion of infant Baptism and infant faith can also be found in the novel “The Hammer of God” by Bo Giertz (pages 214-227).

These topics are also addressed in the book “Scriptural Baptism,” which is written in the form of a dialogue between a Lutheran and a Baptist. The book can be read online at: http://www.geocities.com/resourcesforlutherans/infantBaptism.htm

Books well worth purchasing that have excellent discussions of this are “Baptism” by Dr. David P. Scaer (available from www.cph.org) and “Baptized into God’s Family” by Dr. A. Andrew Das (available from www.nph.net). For an outstanding classic treatment, see “A Comprehensive Exploration of Holy Baptism and Lord's Supper” by Johann Gerhard (available from www.cph.org).

6. ADDITIONAL COMMENTS REGARDING THE ADMINISTRATION OF BAPTISM

In Biblical accounts of Baptism, there was not a lengthy delay between conversion and Baptism (e.g. Acts 2, Acts 8:26-40, Acts 9:-17, Acts 22:1-16, Acts 16:33). They went hand in hand.

Biblical accounts of Baptism indicate that it was not necessary for it to be done publicly. The Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26-40), Paul (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and the Philippian jailer and his household (Acts 16:33) were all baptized in private settings. The important thing about what Baptism is what God is doing — freely giving us His gifts as He makes us His children.

 

[Lamb]

My copy and paste skills are lacking when I'm tired. I think I have done it all in the proper place now.

 

[Cassia]

Perhaps a definition of baptism is required. Many think baptism and chrissining is the same thing, others think it's an identification with His death in which we are also identifying with His resurrection upon coming out of baptism waters, others think it's like a marraige contract that is enacted before the world that is a 24/7 thing. The latter 2 would be what I believe. The water is symbolic and has no power. Like circumcision has no power if the heart remains uncircumcised. What is your definition of baptism?

My copy and paste skills are lacking when I'm tired. I think I have done it all in the proper place now.

But what is the definition ? For baptism of infants it seems to be a name giving = christian?

 

[Lamb]

But what is the definition ? For baptism of infants it seems to be a name giving = christian?

What is Baptism?
Baptism is not simple water only, but it is the water comprehended in God’s command and connected with God’s Word.

Which is that word of God?
Christ, our Lord, says in the last chapter of Matthew: Go ye into all the world and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

What does Baptism give or profit?
It works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.

Which are such words and promises of God?
Christ, our Lord, says in the last chapter of Mark: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

How can water do such great things?
It is not the water indeed that does them, but the word of God which is in and with the water, and faith, which trusts such word of God in the water. For without the word of God the water is simple water and no baptism. But with the word of God it is a baptism, that is, a gracious water of life and a washing of regeneration in the Holy Ghost, as St. Paul says, Titus, chapter three: By the washing of regeneration and renewing the Holy Ghost, which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior, that, being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying.

What does such baptizing with water signify?
It signifies that the old Adam in us should, by daily contrition and repentance, be drowned and die with all sins and evil lusts, and, again, a new man daily come forth and arise; who shall live before God in righteousness and purity forever.

Where is this written?
St. Paul says Romans, chapter 6: We are buried with Christ by Baptism into death, that, like as He was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/what-i-like-about-lutheran-baptism

 

[Cassia]

....
What does Baptism give or profit?
It works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare. ...

I hope you can understand people's confusion in this ...

 

[Lamb]

I hope you can understand people's confusion in this ...

The verses that prove all that are in my posts above.

 

[Cassia]

The verses that prove all that are in my posts above.

Can you please narrow that down to what pertains to

What does Baptism give or profit?
It works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare. ...

 

[Rens]

Well, I'm very glad that the Spirit kept nagging at you to have it done

Editing to add that I was 4 years old when I received baptism and I remember it well. I already knew God but my mother chose to wait to have me and my sister baptized. I felt that strong pull when she was telling me about it though. I tried to tell her I already knew God (but not by that name). At my baptism when the pastor asked Do you wish to be baptized I felt in my mind a loud YES. More happened at my baptism but I don't talk about it.

That's awesome. I wanted my kids baptized a long time ago but have to wait until they're 12 for no good reason at all. Annoying.

 

[Lamb]

Can you please narrow that down to what pertains to

1. WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM?

1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:3-10. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through Baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

Galatians 3:27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Eph. 5:26. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

Titus 3:5. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:11. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Acts 22:16. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

* Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.

 

[Josiah]

I believe that Jesus raises the dead to life. As He did Lazarus in John 11:38-44.

He doesn't NEED any means at all (none were used with Lazarus) but that doesn't mean He is forbidden from using means or doesn't use means. If God uses tiny black marks on a page of a book (say Scripture) to bring about faith and life, it seems proof that He can use something to create faith/life. Even something pretty simple and ordinary and unimpressive. Like water (life-giving water). I realize, that doesn't prove He does, but it sure doesn't mean He can't.

My father-in-law does workworking as a hobbie. BEAUTIFUL, amazing things!!! Pieces of art, furniture, etc. He has won lots of awards. I've been in his shop (the garage) hundreds of times. It's FULL of lifeless, ordinary, simple tools (some he's made himself). By themselves, they can do NOTHING. In my hands, they would be dangerous and destructive! In HIS hands..... able to do miracles. A plain saw.... a simple hammer.... and ordinary screwdriver..... Our Carpenter also performs miracles. And while he CAN just form this ... poof.... by shere fiat, that's not how it usually is done, IMO.



- Josiah

 

[Lamb]

I believe that Jesus raises the dead to life. As He did Lazarus in John 11:38-44.

He doesn't NEED any means at all (none were used with Lazarus) but that doesn't mean He is forbidden from using means or doesn't use means. If God uses tiny black marks on a page of a book (say Scripture) to bring about faith and life, it seems proof that He can use something to create faith/life. Even something pretty simple and ordinary and unimpressive. Like water (life-giving water). I realize, that doesn't prove He does, but it sure doesn't mean He can't.

My father-in-law does workworking as a hobbie. BEAUTIFUL, amazing things!!! Pieces of art, furniture, etc. He has won lots of awards. I've been in his shop (the garage) hundreds of times. It's FULL of lifeless, ordinary, simple tools (some he's made himself). By themselves, they can do NOTHING. In my hands, they would be dangerous and destructive! In HIS hands..... able to do miracles. A plain saw.... a simple hammer.... and ordinary screwdriver..... Our Carpenter also performs miracles. And while he CAN just form this ... poof.... by shere fiat, that's not how it usually is done, IMO.



- Josiah

Your post reminded me how Jesus used spit and mud to make a blind man see. If we compare this to baptism people would balk and say, "But the mud did nothing." EXACTLY! It's about God doing the work and His intentions. The baptismal verses show us what His intentions are by His word in the waters of baptism.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

...others think it's an identification with His death in which we are also identifying with His resurrection upon coming out of baptism waters, others think it's like a marraige contract that is enacted before the world that is a 24/7 thing. The latter 2 would be what I believe. The water is symbolic and has no power. Like circumcision has no power if the heart remains uncircumcised. What is your definition of baptism?

I think that a closer look might show something other than symbolism in the baptismal act:

"Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives. Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was" (Rom. 6: 3-5, NLT).

"Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection" (NASB).

So, as far as a 'definition', I would go so far as to say that baptism is a regenerative process - a recognition that we are dead in sin, and that (through baptism) our sinful selves are buried, and we 'rise' to walk in newness of life. How? By the "glorious power of the Father".

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

So how is God at work through 'the waters'?

See above

 

[Cassia]

..So, as far as a 'definition', I would go so far as to say that baptism is a regenerative process - a recognition....

Tell me again how infants recognize that ...I guess I'm just not understanding it...

 

[user1234]

Oh man, the religionism sometimes gets so deep, I really need to get higher boots.
Water-baptism ... works forgiveness of sins?????
Water-baptism ... delivers from death and the devil ?????
Water-baptism ... gives eternal salvation to all who believe this ?????
And Water-baptism ... is a regenerative process ?????

Really, now! I'd ask, where do ppl get this stuff, but sadly it's all too plain to see.
Religion.
But not the pure and undefiled religion of visiting widows and orphans in their affliction, but the religionism of denominations like RomanCatholicism and Lutheranism.
Strange bedfellows to say the least.

And what's more head-banging-against-the-wall crazy is that it comes from some of the very same ppl that say we contribute Nothing to our salvation, that we may just as well be automatonic dummies sitting in a pile somewhere until God comes along and imposes salvation on us.

Now, all the sudden, it seems we don't even have forgiveness of sins, we don't have victory over death and the devil, an haven't been given eternal salvation, unless and until we go get all wet?!
Just crazy.

And a 'regenerative process'? What's that supposed to mean?!
(No, no, please don't answer with more misappropriated
or misapplied bible verses.)
A process? How long does this regeneration take?
How long is this process?

Ppl, oh my good good ppl, my friends and brothers and sisters, JESUS is the One, HE paid it all ON THE CROSS. We are saved by grace through faith in His finished work ON THE CROSS! FAITH, not water.

Some folks are so afraid of being mistaken for taking ANY credit for salvation, they don't even want to breathe the word 'decision' in the same room as grace, and I understand that, but then want to say our forgiveness and salvation relies, at least in part, on OUR water-baptism?!
It just gets curiouser and curiouser.

If we're saved, we should be rejoicing together in that.
I guess the question is, are you saved? And if so, by whom and/or by what?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I guess the question is, are you saved? And if so, by whom and/or by what?

What's your answer?

New thread created here:

http://christianityhaven.com/showth...f-so-by-whom-and-or-by-what&p=93897#post93897

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Tell me again how infants recognize that ...I guess I'm just not understanding it...

The same way that infants can't recognize the truth of "2+2=4", they are not able (as yet) to recognize the truth of being dead in sin. However, it does not change the truth of the thing. Parents/caregivers act in their stead and bring their children for baptism, with the same result - death to sin, and being raised to walk in newness of life.

 

[Rens]

The same way that infants can't recognize the truth of "2+2=4", they are not able (as yet) to recognize the truth of being dead in sin. However, it does not change the truth of the thing. Parents/caregivers act in their stead and bring their children for baptism, with the same result - death to sin, and being raised to walk in newness of life.

Ah it is connected. Don't make a decision. Not necessary for salvation. So babies don't have to make a decision either.