Are We Saved by Grace or Decision?

[Cassia]

I don't know why all the mocking of others because of the scriptures used to defend their position like only that scripture is true to the exclusion of others. Believing is a factor to the God who alone can save,,, it's His word that counts. Not yours.

Romans 4:2-3
If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “- Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

 

[Josiah]

Romans 4:2-3
If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “- Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

.... and his having faith was not HIS work. Otherwise, he WOULD have been justified by his works, by what He did, and would have something to boast about. It's not that Abraham (like all unregenerate) was spiritually DEAD but WiLLED himself to life. Before I was conceived, I did not WILL myself to physical life - God GAVE me that life, I came to physical life by GOD'S act, GOD'S gift, GOD'S grace. The Bible teaches it's the same in spiritual life.

 

[Cassia]

.... and his having faith was not HIS work. Otherwise, he WOULD have been justified by his works, by what He did, and would have something to boast about. It's not that Abraham (like all unregenerate) was spiritually DEAD but WiLLED himself to life. Before I was conceived, I did not WILL myself to physical life - God GAVE me that life, I came to physical life by GOD'S act, GOD'S gift, GOD'S grace. The Bible teaches it's the same in spiritual life.

Obviously and afaics no one is saying differently, only by yours and others spin on their answers.

 

[Cassia]

Hopefully being aware that it's God that is being mocked may help :sigh:

 

[Josiah]

Obviously and afaics no one is saying differently, only by yours and others spin on their answers.

Good. Then all are agreeing with Lamm, Tigger, Turtle, myself, etc. All are simply posting: "I agree." And we're all on the same page: it's not our decision, it's God's action. We all agree, NO ONE chooses Christ or decides to have faith.

I hope you are right and we all agree on that.

 

[Cassia]

Good. Then all are agreeing with Lamm, Tigger, Turtle, myself, etc. All are simply posting: "I agree." And we're all on the same page: it's not our decision, it's God's action. We all agree, NO ONE chooses Christ or decides to have faith.

I hope you are right and we all agree on that.

If you believe that is that a work?

 

[Josiah]

If you believe that is that a work?

Obviously, coming to life (physical or spiritual), creating faith, changing from death to life is a work. No one denies that, that I know of. SOMETHING happens (or nothing does). The question of this thread is who does that? Are we saved by grace (God's doing) or by our works (say our creating faith in ourselves)?

You seemed to suggest that for 15 pages now, everyone has agreed with the opening video and with myself and Lamm and Turtle and Tigger.... that we're all in agreement here, all on the same page. I simply said I hope you're right.

 

[Cassia]

As Laam has pointed out His Promises come with conditions but your right that the thread title asks what actually saves - grace or decision and all are on the same page afaics that God alone saves apart from works. After all Abraham needed to believe for it to be counted to him as righteousness. That was before grace so now we are given much but the OT is for our example. Romans 4 exemplifies that.

 

[Josiah]

As Laam has pointed out His Promises come with conditions but your right that the thread title asks what actually saves - grace or decision and all are on the same page afaics that God alone saves apart from works.

I see. So you agree with everything in the opening video. And with the points I've made (and those of Lamm, tigger, Turtle, etc.) - and all others have too.

Again, I sincerely hope you are right! I'm puzzled by the 15 pages of posts here then but that's okay, if you're right, all that was just various posters saying "I fully agree."


Thanks!


- Josiah




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRbIX4EH40Y




.

 

[TurtleHare]

Good. Then all are agreeing with Lamm, Tigger, Turtle, myself, etc. All are simply posting: "I agree." And we're all on the same page: it's not our decision, it's God's action. We all agree, NO ONE chooses Christ or decides to have faith.

I hope you are right and we all agree on that.

They got a funny way of agreeing and how bout this Who's running the verbs? I am saved because I _______ or I am saved because God __________ Which one is being said because if after the word because has an I then the verb is all about you instead of God. Can't y'all see it?

 

[Brighten04]

.... and his having faith was not HIS work. Otherwise, he WOULD have been justified by his works, by what He did, and would have something to boast about. It's not that Abraham (like all unregenerate) was spiritually DEAD but WiLLED himself to life. Before I was conceived, I did not WILL myself to physical life - God GAVE me that life, I came to physical life by GOD'S act, GOD'S gift, GOD'S grace. The Bible teaches it's the same in spiritual life.

Abraham BELIEVED God.
Romans4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.


Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

We see Abraham acting (doing) on his faith. God gives us faith, but we have to willingly act on our faith. Where we all agree is that we are saved by grace through faith. We all agree that grace and faith are a gift from God.We all agree that Lord Jesus is the Savior and not we ourselves. So we put those arguments to rest
Where we disagree is in the acting on/in our faith. We see Abraham acting in faith, and he is referred to in scripture as the father of the faithful. His believing God and acting on/in faith counted him as righteous. I did a brief look up on whosoever will,(Thanks Snerfle :yourock: ), and all of the references said we have do willingly act on/in faith. There is no passivity allowed.There is no indication that we just be and God saves us, as in my and others understand the arguments put forward here.All of the false equivalences and false accusations imho are distractions from the truth that Lord Jesus spoke saying "Repent". Repent in/on faith that the Lord Jesus is the Savior and believe that He is the giver of eternal life. Scripture says God has given every man the measure of faith necessary for believing by faith that Lord Jesus IS the Savior.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[user1234]

I never said anything about YOU.Obviously that's a lie, Josiah , You re-quoted my post and replied to it and concluded with this false-accusation---> You need to get your focus off you and on the Lord.... stop being obsessed with what you see in the Mirror and instead lift high the Cross. <---

What I stated is that if salvation ultimately depends on what self does, then ergo that means that self is the savior of self. Can you dispute that? (you haven't tried).

(No need to, it's a stupid redundancy, and a weak attempt at another strawman.)

Nice quote, it just has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this thread. This thread is not about what CHRISTIANS, those already Christian, those already saved, those already justified, those already His sheep, may or may not do, may or may not be commanded to do. It's about BECOMING His sheep, BECOMING a Christian, GAINING faith, BEING justified. Yes, of course, CHRISTIANS follow Jesus but rarely do Atheists, unbelievers, nonchristians, people without faith. Your point is nice just entirely irrelevant to anything remotely related to this thread or the question we're discussing. Friend, if you want to talk about what CHRISTIANS do, people who HAVE FAITH ALREADY do, great!! But start your own thread on that entirely different topic, please don't hijack this one.
More of your arrogance. I posted the John10 scripture to verify the point that I've stated over and over ... that salvation is a GIFT , which was why I repeated the word 'GAVE' 3 times in caps, so any blockhead could see my point, but you once again twisted it, now to be about sheep Following, a deliberate and typical misrepresentation of another person's post by you. Get over yourself. I'm not interested in agreeing with you, you post too many lies, twist too many other ppl's posts to boost your strawman arguements, make too many false accusations.
You're too interested in getting ppl to agree with Josiah , too oppressive in your attempts to get ppl join your denomination.
I believe in the Word of God, not necessarily in the interpretations of denominations or cults of strange bed-fellows like the RomanCalutherics.






Great. Then all your posts could be summerized with "Josiah, I agree with you." But it sure seemed that you were disagreeing. If all your posts are basically, "Josiah - you're absolutely right!" (and you just worded that oddly) than wonderful. If not, then it seems perhaps we disagree on something?





- Josiah

How about, JESUS, I agree with you. JESUS, you're absolutely right!
( Josiah, calm down, it's not about you)

 

[Rens]

Your kidding, right, plz tell me your just joking about this and if your not then let me introduce you to my friend called God cuz he's that guy that saves and converts and unblinds the blind. That my dear is how nonbelievers become believers.

Lol He works through people. He gave us His authority. You're not supposed to live anymore anyway.

 

[user1234]

Lol He works through people. He gave us His authority. You're not supposed to live anymore anyway.

 

[Josiah]

l Abraham needed to believe for it to be counted to him as righteousness. That was before grace so now we are given much but the OT is for our example. Romans 4 exemplifies that.

What makes you think that Abraham created faith himself, gave himself faith - so that he was counted as righteous because of his work, his creating faith?

What makes you think God's grace/blessings/gifts were inoperative when Abraham lived?

Did you view the video? Do you fully agree with it or not?

 

[Josiah]

Abraham BELIEVED God.

Yes. I'm ALIVE. Does that statement document that I gave myself life, that I created life? Just because someone HAS something doesn't mean they created it, invented it, chose it..... Sometimes God's GRACE is the reason: God blessed.

 

[Lamb]

Unbelievers? All unbelievers? Then how come they get saved? The devil had blinded them so you pray and bind those demons and if theyre not that bunch that could not accept Him they say yes and get saved and He works that. The robber on the cross got saved by grace and made a decision to ask Him to remember him and not mock Him. Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

No unbeliever can make a decision to believe in Jesus. Not one. Because of Original Sin we see the Gospel as foolishness, that is, until the Holy Spirit gives us faith (and faith comes by His word). We cannot create faith within ourselves. Faith isn't automatically put into every living human being because that goes against scripture that states we are all fallen.

The thief on the cross was with the Word himself and was given faith to believe. We are saved by grace through faith. He could only believe because faith was first given to him in order to believe. He didn't suddenly as a nonbeliever choose Jesus. That goes against scripture because the job of the Holy Spirit is to give us faith.
We shouldn't be denying that part of scripture in favor of human reason and pride of a decision. Once faith is given by the Spirit, you're saved. You can reject it and you can turn away. But you can't give yourself faith. Impossible.

 

[Lamb]

There is no indication that we just be and God saves us,

I really find this to be shocking coming from you.

God alone saves us. We cannot save ourselves.

 

[Lamb]

If I breathe, does that mean I caused myself to come to life, caused myself to breathe? Or does it simply mean that I breathe?

I have you tell you that I absolutely love this! It really fits perfectly

 

[Lamb]

A living faith. That's what seems to be the trouble here. We are to live our faith and there have been verses that point that out in this thread. The main question though and I think that it's so simple that it's become complicated by some...God saves us. He does so by grace. He does so by faith.

I read from someone here that God wouldn't impose himself on anyone? I disagree. To whomever said it, you wouldn't save your child if he/she was dying? Of course you would.

God imposing salvation on us...who here finds that so horrible???? How did the devil enter in and teach that God saving His children is a deplorable thing...and people believe that it's horrible?

I have known God since before I could speak. I know His word is alive and active. I hope I never take credit for what God is doing for my salvation because to ME that's deplorable.