Speaking in tongues?

[psalms 91]

And here we go with the "you ain't as spurchal as me" argument.


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Nope, it is scriptural so what is the problem?

 

[Hammster]

Nope, it is scriptural so what is the problem?

Still waiting for the scriptural support.


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[tango]

how about 1st party report .. i have experience the power of god upon my body so that i could barely function .. and im just fine thank you . its also recorded in the bible that when the glory of God filed the temple the temple priests could not stand . i assure you when the manifest power of the almighty god comes upon you your flesh will have no strength of pride ..you will find your face on the floor .

So you experienced something, find something loosely similar in Scripture and therefore insist it was God? How would you respond to other loosely similar things in Scripture that show people under demonic influence who could barely function? How would you determine whether your experience was the glory of God (as per the OT example you describe) or a demonic influence (as per NT examples)?

It's a serious question because it's a serious matter. We know the devil masquerades as an angel of light so we shouldn't be surprised if he does things that might look like God is at work. His aim is to lead us astray by whatever means it takes.

 

[tango]

Nope, it is scriptural so what is the problem?

"it is scriptural" is a poor second to chapter and verse, no?

The recurring theme is that tongues as a gift is Scriptural (as per 1Co 12-14 for starters), but that doesn't mean that everything presented as "the gift of tongues" is anything to do with the actual gift of tongues. We have enough warnings of lying signs and wonders that it's really not a big leap to conclude that demonic tongues are a distinct possibility and it's not as if it's impossible for anyone to speak the "shundai, kushanda" type of tongues that might sound good in a church setting but doesn't mean anything at all.

The thing I keep coming back to is that if tongues are spoken publicly there should be an interpretation, or the speaker should be told to button it. If tongues are spoken in private it makes no difference to anyone else. If you or someone else prays in tongues in the privacy of their own home it's between you and God. If you or someone else speaks in tongues in a public setting and there is no interpretation, chances are it wasn't from God.

I tend to be suspicious of people on stage doing things on camera because it's so hard to verify what they are doing and hard to determine whether they are doing what they do for the benefit of a human audience or not. It's the same reason I'd reserve a space for people to dance, wave flags, whatever at the back of the church so nobody can see them. If they are doing it in praise of God they will be happy wherever they are, but if they are doing it for a human audience they won't be as interested being at the back where nobody can see.

 

[psalms 91]

"it is scriptural" is a poor second to chapter and verse, no?

The recurring theme is that tongues as a gift is Scriptural (as per 1Co 12-14 for starters), but that doesn't mean that everything presented as "the gift of tongues" is anything to do with the actual gift of tongues. We have enough warnings of lying signs and wonders that it's really not a big leap to conclude that demonic tongues are a distinct possibility and it's not as if it's impossible for anyone to speak the "shundai, kushanda" type of tongues that might sound good in a church setting but doesn't mean anything at all.

The thing I keep coming back to is that if tongues are spoken publicly there should be an interpretation, or the speaker should be told to button it. If tongues are spoken in private it makes no difference to anyone else. If you or someone else prays in tongues in the privacy of their own home it's between you and God. If you or someone else speaks in tongues in a public setting and there is no interpretation, chances are it wasn't from God.

I tend to be suspicious of people on stage doing things on camera because it's so hard to verify what they are doing and hard to determine whether they are doing what they do for the benefit of a human audience or not. It's the same reason I'd reserve a space for people to dance, wave flags, whatever at the back of the church so nobody can see them. If they are doing it in praise of God they will be happy wherever they are, but if they are doing it for a human audience they won't be as interested being at the back where nobody can see.

You are right that it should be interpreted or else they should sit down, that is exactly right. I do not advocate uniterpreted toungues in church or public. My concern is and has been that toungues are dismissed out of hand and people like muyself that operate in this are dragged through the mud by those who are afraid of letting the gift be used. Yes, there has been abuse but that is no reason to shut it down

 

[Pelikan]

You are right that it should be interpreted or else they should sit down, that is exactly right. I do not advocate uniterpreted toungues in church or public. My concern is and has been that toungues are dismissed out of hand and people like muyself that operate in this are dragged through the mud by those who are afraid of letting the gift be used. Yes, there has been abuse but that is no reason to shut it down

To whom do you spread the gospel with this tongues?

 

[Hammster]

To whom do you spread the gospel with this tongues?

Wait...what?


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[ImaginaryDay2]

To whom do you spread the gospel with this tongues?

Wait...what?

My Filipino sister-in-law speaking English (hey, I have the gift of interpretation, don'-cha know...)

 

[psalms 91]

sigh:sigh:

 

[Pelikan]

Wait...what?


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Well, wasn't that their primary purpose?

What's the point in tongues today if it isn't to witness to unbelievers and spread the gospel? What use is it if it's only a party trick to those that claim to have it too?

Sounds like a lot of back-patting and not a lot of practical application. Basically, a wasted gift...

 

[tango]

To whom do you spread the gospel with this tongues?

To people with whom you do not share a common tongue?

I loosely know a guy who was once asked to pray for a Russian lady, so he prayed for her. Afterwards she was reported to have said she knew he was OK because he prayed in such beautiful Russian. Except he doesn't speak Russian - he prayed in his native English, but what she heard was her native Russian. Had he not had that feedback he wouldn't even have known what had happened.

Obviously this is a second-hand story so subject to the usual questions about embellishment and fabrication.

It certainly sounds in keeping with a God who is more about bringing glory to himself than letting people take it for themselves. It's a far cry from someone acting up for the TV cameras so the world can see what they are doing - far more in keeping with the whole concept of doing something so your left hand doesn't know what your right hand is doing.

 

[Pelikan]

To people with whom you do not share a common tongue?

I loosely know a guy who was once asked to pray for a Russian lady, so he prayed for her. Afterwards she was reported to have said she knew he was OK because he prayed in such beautiful Russian. Except he doesn't speak Russian - he prayed in his native English, but what she heard was her native Russian. Had he not had that feedback he wouldn't even have known what had happened.

Obviously this is a second-hand story so subject to the usual questions about embellishment and fabrication.

It certainly sounds in keeping with a God who is more about bringing glory to himself than letting people take it for themselves. It's a far cry from someone acting up for the TV cameras so the world can see what they are doing - far more in keeping with the whole concept of doing something so your left hand doesn't know what your right hand is doing.

Indeed. Second-hand, yes, but far more believable than anything like we see as commonplace amongst a lot of the Charismatics.

 

[Hammster]

To people with whom you do not share a common tongue?

I loosely know a guy who was once asked to pray for a Russian lady, so he prayed for her. Afterwards she was reported to have said she knew he was OK because he prayed in such beautiful Russian. Except he doesn't speak Russian - he prayed in his native English, but what she heard was her native Russian. Had he not had that feedback he wouldn't even have known what had happened.

Obviously this is a second-hand story so subject to the usual questions about embellishment and fabrication.

It certainly sounds in keeping with a God who is more about bringing glory to himself than letting people take it for themselves. It's a far cry from someone acting up for the TV cameras so the world can see what they are doing - far more in keeping with the whole concept of doing something so your left hand doesn't know what your right hand is doing.

Although anecdotal, it's far closer to what scripture describes than the weekly "church" service where most everyone is babbling away.


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[Alithis]

So you experienced something, find something loosely similar in Scripture and therefore insist it was God? How would you respond to other loosely similar things in Scripture that show people under demonic influence who could barely function? How would you determine whether your experience was the glory of God (as per the OT example you describe) or a demonic influence (as per NT examples)?

It's a serious question because it's a serious matter. We know the devil masquerades as an angel of light so we shouldn't be surprised if he does things that might look like God is at work. His aim is to lead us astray by whatever means it takes.

again with the utmost simplicity .. a spirit that is not of God cannot declare that JESUS IS LORD (and in the fullness of the meaning of that term) there simply is no clearer testing of a spirit .just as in the reverse the holy Spirit cannot say Jesus is cursed- ..these are absolute .
so it is not something loosely similar .. the lord Jesus promised and those who believe and ask receive his promise . the lord Jesus is the manifestation of God in the form of flesh having become flesh and dwelt among us and in him the fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily .

again this repeated display of confidence in the devil to override the power of god in the heart of a believer is extremely troubling .. it ascribes a greatness to the adversary which he simply does not have . the Lord jesus said ..if you ask the father for fish he will not give you a scorpion . yet over and over the sentiment here is .. "they all have scorpians ".

Is God most high not faithful to his word al of a sudden , did he fall off his throne or something ..or is the level of faith ebbed to its lowest and unbelief increasing exponentially like mould over lukewarm cheese?

i understand that some here are refering to a video clip ..and i make no judgment on what is heard in the clip ..i already disagree the sentiments of that particular word of faith movement due to their recent realignment with rome (if i speak of the correct crowd ) ..i also know that tongues is not a validation of the actions of men . for tongues do not save .. obedience to the holy Spirit saves and not all who speak in tongues walk in obedience ..the lord gives gifts without repentance(he does not take them away again) and we are not judged by the ability to speak in tongues but by our obedience to the living word of god in harmony to the written word of god . .- ie God made a donkey speak , but that does not mean we should follow the donkey -but neither should we say the donkey spoke of the devil .

 

[Lamb]

Prior to a revival that took place in 1906, why do we not hear of "tongues" being spoken? From what I've been researching, this pentecostal/charismatic movement began in 1906. Tongues prior to that were affiliated with demonic possession with the exception of the 2 references from scripture (in Acts which was a historical account and in 1 Cor. where Paul rebuked the church).

With the exception of "I know a guy who heard about a guy..." is there a Christian reference to tongues between the New Testament accounts and 1906?

 

[Hammster]

Prior to a revival that took place in 1906, why do we not hear of "tongues" being spoken? From what I've been researching, this pentecostal/charismatic movement began in 1906. Tongues prior to that were affiliated with demonic possession with the exception of the 2 references from scripture (in Acts which was a historical account and in 1 Cor. where Paul rebuked the church).

With the exception of "I know a guy who heard about a guy..." is there a Christian reference to tongues between the New Testament accounts and 1906?

I meant to bring that up. Thanks.


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[Alithis]

let me clarify further my stance -

do i question the sound of the tongues i hear on some of these clips .. and in some meetings i attend? sure i do the same as you all ..

i hear what i describe as the 1980's hubba bubba bubblegum tongues out of the 80's charismatic movement .. i recall seeing people counseled to begin speaking tongues by saying syllables like hubba bubba bubba ... i recall in my family we were disturbed by the trend and disagreed with the council being given .. it was like folks wee not being taugh to seek God in Faith and WAIT on him with patience and perseverance for his promises .

i observe outwardly that these sounds are as dissimilar to the tongues i hear as chalk from cheese .. for when i speak in tongues i hear extremely distinct languages and at differing times distinctly differing languages coming forth from me and so often accompanied by visions and interpretation of what is being prayed in the Spirit by the unction of the Holy Spirit -i certainly do not hear "hubba bubba "

but having said that -i find i cannot by any stretch of the imagination lift up my voice in judgment of tongues from another's lips any more then David cold life his hand against saul as the lords anointed but trust GOD to remove that which was not of Him so that which IS of his will might remain.

 

[Hammster]

Over 300 posts and still no scripture to support the gibberish, or the alleged prayer language.


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[MoreCoffee]

Over 300 posts and still no scripture to support the gibberish, or the alleged prayer language.


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"yabba dabba doo" Flintstone's 1:1

 

[GenesisGirl]

This 34 page thread has multiple incidences of mocking. If members feel there is nothing else to add to the conversation I would be willing to close this thread so that things do not escalate.