What does it mean when someone says they weren't saved in the first place?

psalms 91

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It is not one sin and you are out but I gaurantee you that if you continually sin and are not making effort to improve then you are in danger of alling away. Make no mistake adulterers and whoremongers will not inheret the kingdom.
 

MoreCoffee

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Some people act like you can become unborn if you sin after you have been born again.

Some people act as if being born from above is as involuntary as biological birth. It isn't. Take care, brothers and sisters, that none of you may have an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. Hebrews 3:12 Folk can fall away. I've seen it happen many times. I saw it in a Baptist denomination, in a Pentecostal meeting, in an Anglican church, in a Presbyterian church, and in the Catholic Church.
 

psalms 91

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Some people act as if being born from above is as involuntary as biological birth. It isn't. Take care, brothers and sisters, that none of you may have an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. Hebrews 3:12
Excatly, work out your salvation with fear and trembling
 

Brighten04

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So you guys believe Jesus saves, but, it is up to the saved person to keep themselves saved? Interesting.
 

psalms 91

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I believe that there are many scriptures and Jesus own words concerning obedience and ridding oneself of the flesh and that there are verses which state that certain sins will not inherit the kingdom so it is a choice. God gives us everything we need to become sons but if we choose not to
 

MoreCoffee

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So you guys believe Jesus saves, but, it is up to the saved person to keep themselves saved? Interesting.

No. I said nothing of that sort. How did you reach such an incorrect conclusion from what I wrote?
 

Rens

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Some people act as if being born from above is as involuntary as biological birth. It isn't. Take care, brothers and sisters, that none of you may have an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. Hebrews 3:12 Folk can fall away. I've seen it happen many times. I saw it in a Baptist denomination, in a Pentecostal meeting, in an Anglican church, in a Presbyterian church, and in the Catholic Church.

Yes. It's just 2 extremes. One says if you sneeze you're unborn again and the other says its okay to live in sin. One person on cf said when i asked her about a former born again christian but now Dawkins type, oh yes he's still saved.
 

MoreCoffee

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Yes. It's just 2 extremes. One says if you sneeze you're unborn again and the other says its okay to live in sin. One person on cf said when i asked her about a former born again christian but now Dawkins type, oh yes he's still saved.

Yes, I have heard that sort of reply before and I have heard the other reply that says "no, they never were saved, they just pretended". It's a shame that people make their theology distort reality.
 

Josiah

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Does salvation hinge on something that makes it so man can't downslide and no longer believe which is why there is this idea out there that maybe they weren't saved in the first place? Now I have heard this proclaimed by some very godly Christians although I can't for the life of me see Jesus saying that to anyone in the bible but I can see Jesus saying that the seeds can whither and not grow.


See posts # 1 and # 2 here: http://www.christianityhaven.com/sh...e-"P"-of-TULIP-and-a-Distinctive-of-Calvinism


Yes, I think one of the terrors that tragically results from displacing the OBJECT of faith as important with the QUALITY of personal faith - is we get this "well, you have faith in Christ but it wasn't REAL faith, GENUINE faith, SAVING faith because it lacked sufficient QUALITY in you.... so that you sincerely, totally THOUGHT you had Chrsitian faith (because the object was Christ) but it wasn't. See post #2 where I give the sad consequence of this....


I disagree that was matters in justification is not Christ and the Cross but how MUCH and how GOD our faith was/is. Which of course would make FAITH was saves, not Christ. Christ said faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.... in justification, it's faith in CHRIST that matters (even if such faith is the size of a mustard seed and not Jupiter). It's not the size and quality of MY faith but the size and quality of the Cross, the Blood, the mercy of God in Christ. Lift high the Cross.....



Pax Christi



- Josiah
 

user1234

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It comes from a misconception that once one is "saved" it is a permanent condition. The use of "saved" in the past tense is what does it. People read in the holy scriptures that "we are saved" and conclude that once it happens it can never be undone. It's a mistake in reading. Kind of like misunderstanding when somebody tells you something. For example, "I will always love you", is not intended to be a promise made for eternity. It is hyperbole. An expression of ardent affection and love now but not a promise for all time. The brutal truth is that humans beings do not live forever and their love cannot outlive them. And even if one takes it to be said in Christian faith that there is a resurrection and the love will continue in the resurrection it ought to be remembered that in the resurrection men and women will be like the angels neither marrying nor being given in marriage. So the love of man & wife will not survive the resurrection unaltered.

It's such a surprise to see how some Protestants read what is written in the holy scriptures and how they do so badly at reading what I write. I haven't said that God's love is hyperbole. Nor have I implied that salvation - once accomplished - is temporary. What I did say is that salvation is not a past tense thing. It is something that God works in the faithful and brings to completion in due time. Like the Lord said in the passage I quoted from earlier. anyone who stands firm to the end will be saved. [SUP]Matt 10:22[/SUP]
No need to do the "Some Protestants" thing. It was I, Snerfle, that re-quoted and commented on your post. And we're all friends here, ... I extended my friendship to you both formally in request and informally, and most of us are believers here, too, so it's ok to re-address me.

Btw, I'm not a "Protestant" , and I'm not sure what the category is supposed to represent in 2017, but I won't try to speak for those who get labeled that way.

In your first post above, you implied that salvation is not permanent by implying that a person who is saved can then afterward be lost.
You also implied that love is not meant to be eternal.
I was only going by what you stated in the above quote.

In the second quote, you seem to change it up a bit, and say 'what you said is ...' and then proceed to re-tell it, but that's not what you said in the first quote.

Whatever your position regarding salvation, that's fine, that's your opinion, but you shouldn't act surprised if on a discussion forum, ppl will read what is written, and comment on it, just be honest about it.

I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say, 'People read "we are saved" and conclude...' (in red^) but who they are and what you claim they conclude may be true or not, but, ..... Here's what scripture says :
~1John5:11-13~
And this is the record, that GOD HAS GIVEN TO US ETERNAL LIFE, and this life is in His Son.

He that has the Son has life ; and he that has not the Son of God has not life.

~These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God ; THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God. ~

This seems to say that His love and salvation are secure and eternal in Jesus, wouldn't you agree?

So thank you Lord Jesus Christ!

Praise the Lord, brother Coffee, you're allowed and encouraged to do so. We're alive because He lives, and we please and honor God when we praise Him for the salvation He's given to us in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour and God and friend.
 

MoreCoffee

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Snerfle, I said "some protestants" and you decided it meant you. I didn't say you were a protestant. I have no idea what folk are until they tell me and even then I am not sure what their chosen designation means.
 

MoreCoffee

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Paul (or whoever wrote Hebrews) says that people who were once illuminated, and have even tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become sharers in the Holy Spirit, who, despite having tasted the good Word of God and the virtues of the future age, have yet fallen away [SUP](Heb 6:4-5)[/SUP]can't be brought to repentance. I don't know why anybody rejects what the passage says.
 

Rens

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Paul (or whoever wrote Hebrews) says that people who were once illuminated, and have even tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become sharers in the Holy Spirit, who, despite having tasted the good Word of God and the virtues of the future age, have yet fallen away [SUP](Heb 6:4-5)[/SUP]can't be brought to repentance. I don't know why anybody rejects what the passage says.

That doesnt speak about a baby christian nowadays who backslides. I saw enough come back. It depends.
That guy who pulls people from their faith like Dawkins said that to me. I said: oh how many dead did you raise since you said you tasted the virtues of the future age.
 

MoreCoffee

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That doesnt speak about a baby christian nowadays who backslides. I saw enough come back. It depends.
That guy who pulls people from their faith like Dawkins said that to me. I said: oh how many dead did you raise since you said you tasted the virtues of the future age.

I don't get worked up about what is meant by saying that they cannot be returned to repentance. Some think that means they can never ever be brought back to faith and grace in God. I am not convinced by that claim. But it is not the point being made here is it? The passage says that some who give every evidence of Christian faith can turn away from the living God and risk condemnation.
 

Rens

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I don't get worked up about what is meant by saying that they cannot be returned to repentance. Some think that means they can never ever be brought back to faith and grace in God. I am not convinced by that claim. But it is not the point being made here is it? The passage says that some who give every evidence of Christian faith can turn away from the living God and risk condemnation.

Oh okay, yes.
 

hotrhymez

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Well I dont know. I've never been crazy about the idea of telling someone they arent really saved..i mean it justs sounds so judgemental and rude to me....like who really even knows the truth in that..its sorta like you telling me your favorite color is blue and me going "nuh uh, you don't really like blue"

but then again im not an expert in this stuff...so maybe my opinion is not worth a heck of a lot lol :D
 

Brighten04

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No. I said nothing of that sort. How did you reach such an incorrect conclusion from what I wrote?

Some people act as if being born from above is as involuntary as biological birth. It isn't. Take care, brothers and sisters, that none of you may have an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. Hebrews 3:12 Folk can fall away. I've seen it happen many times. I saw it in a Baptist denomination, in a Pentecostal meeting, in an Anglican church, in a Presbyterian church, and in the Catholic Church.

You gave me this understanding by your post quoted above. Since you say being born again from above is not involuntary as biological birth, tell me how you were voluntarily born again from above. This should be very interesting.:scratchchin:
 

MoreCoffee

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You gave me this understanding by your post quoted above. Since you say being born again from above is not involuntary as biological birth, tell me how you were voluntarily born again from above. This should be very interesting.:scratchchin:

The same way that you did, by believing the gospel, by expressing faith in Jesus Christ, by being baptised, by partaking in the holy Eucharist, by living among other Christians in a community of faith as Christ's body and Church.
 

Rens

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You gave me this understanding by your post quoted above. Since you say being born again from above is not involuntary as biological birth, tell me how you were voluntarily born again from above. This should be very interesting.:scratchchin:

You can choose to accept Him or not. Then you get born again. He forces noone.
 

Brighten04

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The same way that you did, by believing the gospel, by expressing faith in Jesus Christ, by being baptised, by partaking in the holy Eucharist, by living among other Christians in a community of faith as Christ's body and Church.

WOW! So it was all you? That is very interesting.
 
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