Best way to find jobs

[Lamb]

My daughter has graduated college and she is at an internship until the holidays but what kind of job seeking hints could you give to her for when it's time to look?

 

[Josiah]

When I got my Ph.D., I was at a crossroad. To work in academia, I'd need to do a post-doc for at least 5 years and try to get stuff impressively published. To work commercially, the usual track is to get an internship. That's the route I pursued. Because the work is high security, my internship addressed issues only related - while they saw my abilities and checked my security. The internship was to be for one year, but I was promoted after just 3 months (with my salary increased 3 fold). Nope, can't tell you what I do.... where I do it .... or for whom (even my wife knows WHERE I work but not what I do there). I love it since it is a very, very collaborative effort working with a very diverse team (from various backgrounds).... informal, friendly, supportive.... and challenging, demanding creativity and cooperation. I seem to "click" there very well - witnessed by a pretty big promotion even before my one year evaluation, a promotion recommended by my peers, my team.

I don't know what field your daughter works in, but I think often internships is the best way to "enter." They are the modern day form of a working interview, a lot of job offers flow from them. So much happens via the internet now, too. Most fields are VERY competitive but there are also counselors and courses that can help develop interview skills, etc. But I think it's STILL often a matter of who you know.... I got my internship is large part because the lab director I worked with in my grad years has strong connections with top people at my company.... his strong recommendation was my "ticket" - the internship was mine to loose (but I didn't). Of course, getting the internship and getting the job are not at all the same thing.


Best of luck to your daughter....



- Josiah



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[ImaginaryDay2]

One resource that is invaluable is a career center. I know that might sound a bit strange, but if they're anything like here, there may be several workshops that deal with resume writing, how to tap into job markets, what job markets actually look like, interview preparation, and performing mock interviews. It's a great resource if it's available. She may be able to work with a case manager who can give her individualized assistance.

Also, look at the internship as networking heaven. Get to know who'd who, not only in the internship site itself, but in the field. See if she can be introduced to others who are influential. Name recognition can certainly help. Also (and this is for her whole career, not just for job search) never burn bridges. A reference is invaluable, and she may never know when she might have to call on a former supervisor or colleague for that. So if she leaves a position, have that conversation with a supervisor/director to be sure that level of trust is there, and to be sure she's leaving on a good note.

 

[Ackbach]

I have two pieces of advice.

1. Polish, polish, and polish your resume. Get it down to one page, and make sure that it grabs the attention. Recruiters spend all of about 10 seconds looking at a resume, so it has to hit hard. Don't use a canned format from the Internet, because recruiters see those all the time. Work on your own format, but get advice, preferably from a recruiter, about the formatting. Make sure everything in the resume is 100% accurate.

2. Networking, networking, networking. It's been my experience that especially with large companies, their career site is completely useless. Either their filters are too strong and thus you don't exist, or their recruiters don't even look at it and thus you don't exist. I have never been called by a large company because I applied through their career site. Call people you know, even if they aren't in a line of work in which you're interested. Get on LinkedIn, and maintain a full profile.

 

[Josiah]

Again, I don't know what her field is but my wife is a public school teacher. When she entered, schools in this state were still suffering from decreased funding and layoffs so it was a BAD time to seek a position here! She began as a sub - and just did VERY, VERY good work. Yup, peers and principals noticed - and began requesting her when there was a need, in time, she had more offers to sub than she could take. Then there was a (terrible) situation where they needed a sub for what turned out to be the rest of the year. Her principal liked her so much that he basically circumvented the process because he wanted her to have that class the next year.

Sometimes.... you gotta grab what you can get. And display EXCELLENCE. Hopefully, it gets noticed and hopefully leads to an opening. Even in heavily impacted fields.

 

[Lamb]

I'm not sure if I've stated here on CH what her degrees are but I don't think I should name them (if I already haven't). She'll have a tough time finding something in her field without going to creative lengths to get herself out there. Thanks for all the tips, keep them coming!

 

[Josiah]

I think it DOES differ from vocation to vocation..... For new grads entering the "market," in GENERAL, generic terms: Good education..... good resume..... good interview skills..... good appearance..... good "people skills"....... valid computer skills..... HARD work....... "connections"........ getting whatever you can (internship, etc.) and in those EXCELLING in ways impossible to ignore..... those usually are helpful no matter what job. I'd probably put "good connections" at the top of the list of what helps.

Gone are the days (typically) when a really good education gets you a really good job. The world owes no one a living. It's competitive (well, good paying jobs are), very competitive.


Best of luck to your daughter.



- Josiah

 

[tango]

1. Polish, polish, and polish your resume. Get it down to one page, and make sure that it grabs the attention. Recruiters spend all of about 10 seconds looking at a resume, so it has to hit hard. Don't use a canned format from the Internet, because recruiters see those all the time. Work on your own format, but get advice, preferably from a recruiter, about the formatting. Make sure everything in the resume is 100% accurate.

I remember back in the early 90s when it wasn't considered unusual for a recruiter to get several hundred applications for a decent quality job. I remember years ago when I was hiring for an entry level position I ended up with nearly 40 applicants and that was after giving fairly specific instructions to two selected agencies. Even with 40 applicants I didn't have time to read their paperwork in any detail - the fact I was hiring meant I had more work than I could cope with, which meant I didn't have time to spend on every single applicant. Certainly anyone whose resume ran to a second page had to give me a compelling reason in the top part of the first page why I'd want to read any further.

It sounds obvious but do check for obvious irony fails. The person who has "very good attention to dteail" is doing themselves more harm than good with that statement. Don't assume that your spellchecker will catch everything, as aptly demonstrated by the resume I saw from the guy who had done marketing and described himself as a "pubic relations expert". That was maybe more than I needed to know about his private life...

2. Networking, networking, networking. It's been my experience that especially with large companies, their career site is completely useless. Either their filters are too strong and thus you don't exist, or their recruiters don't even look at it and thus you don't exist. I have never been called by a large company because I applied through their career site. Call people you know, even if they aren't in a line of work in which you're interested. Get on LinkedIn, and maintain a full profile.

Yep, I still remember the time I heard about a position in a company I was interested in working for and just showed up on spec, dressed for business, to ask about the role. The security guard insisted they had no vacancies but I told him the name of the hiring manager, so he called them and within a couple of minutes handed me the phone. The first words the hiring manager said to me were "OK, how did you know about that job?" because it wasn't even on the internal notice board yet. He couldn't see me right there and then (which wasn't a surprised, but I was prepared in case he could) but agreed to interview me even though the job wasn't even at the "internal candidates only" stage, simply because he figured I'd shown more initiative than most of the candidates he saw.

It's also worth considering the approach - the kind of "I don't suppose you have any jobs at your place?" can sometimes create a sense of awkwardness while "do let me know if you hear of anything suitable" doesn't create or imply any pressure for someone else to solve my employment issue. If you do know someone who can vouch for you professionally that's also worth a lot, a couple of times I've had friends who I could vouch for in a professional sense bypass a lot of the selection process because of that recommendation. They don't get to be a shoo-in for the job but they get an interview where they might otherwise have been overlooked due to the 10-second issue Ackbach described. As I put it to them, I can open the door for them to get an interview but once in the interview they still have to deliver.

 

[Rens]

In cartography there were absolutely no jobs when I graduated. I sent a lot of letters, no response. Started doing catering work. Then went to an organization that sends people out for a few months. They had nothing. Then my ex said: Why don't you just pray and believe for such a job? So I did and the next day when I was having a break of cleaning up dirty dishes from students they called me. Still work there. It was only for 3 months they said. Been working there since 96.

 

[Ackbach]

Nice username change there, Messy Tidy!

 

[tango]

One other thing to mention, it's one thing to try and talk up achievements but don't go overboard. I saw a resume from someone seeking work in the financial sector who described a work placement that gave him a "comprehensive understanding of the role of accountancy firms in the financial sector".

From a claim like that, how long would you think the work placement lasted? Six months? A year? Two years?

Nope, not as long as that. It was a two week placement. That's right, he thought he could acquire a comprehensive understanding in ten days.

He didn't get the job. He didn't even get the interview. His resume was enjoyed for its humor value before being filed in the round cabinet in the corner.

 

[tango]

A couple of other thoughts. Sometimes you may need to show up for an interview dressed in a way the interviewer might not expect. If that's the case, give them a little advance notice if at all possible. I once interviewed a guy for a job in an investment bank and he turned up wearing a leather jacket and jeans. I nearly showed him the door right there and then (this was back in the days when you wore a suit without exception if you worked in banking). It turned out that the place he was currently working was a very casual company and it would have been a bit obvious if he had showed up in a suit. It would have been nice to have known in advance, to avoid the seriously bad first impression that gave.

The other point should be obvious but I've seen it happen more than once. Turn your phone off for the interview. If you forget (and with the best will in the world, it happens) and your phone beeps (or worse, rings) by all means divert the call to silence the phone. I interviewed one guy for a junior position and during the interview his phone rang. He looked mortified, took it out of his pocket for long enough to silence it, and it was clear from the look on his face that he thought he'd blown his chances right there and then. It wasn't great that he didn't silence his phone but the way he handled the situation actually worked in his favor, because something unexpected happened and he handled it in the best way he could given the circumstances. I interviewed another guy for a mid-level position that required a reasonable amount of technical knowledge, and this guy was just arrogant. He showed up clearly expecting the job to be his for the taking and, when his phone rang during the interview, he paused and said "excuse me" and took the call right there and then. I could hardly believe what I was seeing. For good measure he failed the technical test we gave him so badly it just wasn't funny (his feedback was "it highlighted a few gaps in my knowledge", what it actually did was highlight a few islands of knowledge in an ocean of ignorance).

The first guy who handled the phone issue well didn't rule himself out right there and then (as it happens he ended up as our second choice for the job). The second guy ruled himself out the minute he answered the phone. Which leads back to the first point - if there's a chance you really are going to have to take a call either reschedule the interview or let the interviewer know in advance. If your father is critically ill and you may get an important update, just let them know. Interviewers are human too. If you just can't resist checking why Faceache beeped at you, save everybody's time and just cancel the interview completely.

 

[Lamb]

Great tips about the phone!!

 

[hotrhymez]

I use Indeed.com and Craigslist but I usually never get a response..any tips?

 

[Lamb]

Word of mouth works so well and sometimes we don't want to inconvenience friends and family by asking if there are any job openings. Where I used to work the new people were mainly friends or family members of other employees. That doesn't seem fair but I think because of the security needed at the company that they trusted the recommended people over strangers.

 

[Rens]

I use Indeed.com and Craigslist but I usually never get a response..any tips?

I went to a deployment agency. Where I work they don't want to hire new people, but they always need them, so they take them from a deployment agency. I'll pray God will give you a good job.