For God so loved

[MoreCoffee]

He became flesh and blood to achieve that purpose .what's it have to do with this ?
Don't stalk.

The holy scriptures are important, right?

And so I beg you, first of all, to make supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings for all men, for kings, and for all who are in high places, so that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all piety and chastity. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and to arrive at an acknowledgement of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a redemption for all, as a testimony in its proper time. Of this testimony, I have been appointed a preacher and an Apostle, (I speak the truth, I do not lie) as a teacher of the Gentiles, in faith and in truth. Therefore, I want men to pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger or dissension. Similarly also, women should be dressed fittingly, adorning themselves with compunction and restraint, and not with plaited hair, nor gold, nor pearls, nor costly attire, but in a manner proper for women who are professing piety by means of good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all subjection. For I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to be in authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not seduced, but the woman, having been seduced, was in transgression. Yet she will be saved by bearing children, if she has continued in faith and love, and in sanctification accompanied by self-restraint. [SUP]1 Timothy 2:1-15[/SUP]

It sure looks like present tense, Jesus is a man now, and he was a man when Paul wrote first Timothy thus he's been a man for around two thousand years.

 

[Sword7]

The holy scriptures are important, right?

And so I beg you, first of all, to make supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings for all men, for kings, and for all who are in high places, so that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all piety and chastity. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and to arrive at an acknowledgement of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a redemption for all, as a testimony in its proper time. Of this testimony, I have been appointed a preacher and an Apostle, (I speak the truth, I do not lie) as a teacher of the Gentiles, in faith and in truth. Therefore, I want men to pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger or dissension. Similarly also, women should be dressed fittingly, adorning themselves with compunction and restraint, and not with plaited hair, nor gold, nor pearls, nor costly attire, but in a manner proper for women who are professing piety by means of good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all subjection. For I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to be in authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not seduced, but the woman, having been seduced, was in transgression. Yet she will be saved by bearing children, if she has continued in faith and love, and in sanctification accompanied by self-restraint. [SUP]1 Timothy 2:1-15[/SUP]

It sure looks like present tense, Jesus is a man now, and he was a man when Paul wrote first Timothy thus he's been a man for around two thousand years.

wow they are correct you are a stalker. no one has said he is not man .only that scripture satets he is now glorified and not as he was before and when he comes we shall be made like him ..why ? because we presently are not like him .we are still clothed in flesh and blood . you want to bring him down ?
most UNglorifying of you . we are done .

 

[Brighten04]

This is an interesting thread in its unbelievable level of deception.
No one noticed that it is a one off past tense statement.

When used on the streets it's often raised that if God loves all then they don't want to know him. Used as if it is some magic key phrase it is harmful .
Sometimes the person that hears it thinks..your telling me God loved he guy that molested my kids?I don't want to know that God.
All because this one verse is used with an incorrect understanding.
It is a one off past tense statement.
God So loved... Not loves.
God is going to judge and cast into everlasting fire,those who do evil and refuse to repent of sin. He does not love them.
Once..in an act of benevolent mercy. He loved.and gave us all a hope,a way out of the coming judgment.
He does not love sinners in an ongoing manner.he has promised to destroy them.but love demands mercy and in Jesus that mercy has been offered to all who will believe and act like what they believe is true.

Wow! I am so surprised that YOU( of all people) think this way. God loves the lost sinner. That is why He gave Jesus to us. I can't believe YOU don't see it. Does God love the rapist. Yes He does and He is willing to forgive the sin of rape. Do people go to hell because God does not love them enough to save them? No. People go to Hell because they choose death over life. Life is offered in Lord Jesus. My friend, you are double speaking in this post I am sad to say. Either you do not understand God's great love, or you do not realize His great capacity for forgiveness. Maybe I am misunderstanding you and will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Sword7]

Wow! I am so surprised that YOU( of all people) think this way. God loves the lost sinner. That is why He gave Jesus to us. I can't believe YOU don't see it. Does God love the rapist. Yes He does and He is willing to forgive the sin of rape. Do people go to hell because God does not love them enough to save them? No. People go to Hell because they choose death over life. Life is offered in a Lord Jesus. My friend, you are double speaking in this post I am sad to say. Either you do not understand God's great love, or you do not realize His great capacity for forgiveness. Maybe I am misunderstanding you and will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

he is willing to forgive /vs he loves , these are two different things . he has loved and thus made a way of salvation to that rapist should that rapist turn TO God .then the outworking of his love will be realized ..if he does not he shall be cast into everlasting fire . because that's what god thinks of the unrepentant sinner . we don't burn what we love .
but that he "loved us " and made this great way of salvation available unto us is undeniable and is what is written for God so "loved" the world he made a way out of the coming judgment . but that coming judgement is still coming and will fall with vengeance upon all the ungodly for their ungodly ways . and how much more severe will it be for those who knowing the truth in Jesus still refused to cease their sin .

he did indeed die for us why we were still sinners .that is am amazing act of love towards us in order to save us from the sin we were dead in .
So again how much greater will his vengeance be upon those that disdain what he has done by ignoring it to continue stubbornly in their ungodly ways ? it is not love that he pours upon then it is Judgment .

a tree is known by its fruit . it is not those who say with their lips we are saved we ares saved but those that love him and how do we know those that love him .
he said "they OBEY ME " .it is also written that he is coming back for whom? for those that love him -ie those that Obey him .

loving some one is not just saying i love you i love you i love you .
what if your dad said that, then beat you violently and the said it again and beat you violently again without justice or mercy . his action, his fruit is one thing his words another . his fruit is fruit of selfish hate and anger the fruit shows what kind of tree he really is . no mater how much his lips say another thing .

God is always about multiplication of life . he says go be fruitful AND he says by the fruit you know what kind of tree it really is . whether good or evil .And he says a tree brings forth after its own kind .
so if a person really is a disciple of the lord Jesus ,they will produce more disciples . the fruitfulness of Adam and eve was more children of Adam and eve .
the fruit of the children of God in Christ Jesus ,are more children of God in Chrsit Jesus
it is astounding how many think that they adhere to a congregation a denomination , they do ere a little god deed ,there a little good deed ,sing a song ,pay some money , go to church twice and a weekly night meting . and they think they are fruitful ? they are leafy is all. a tree with many leaves doing this doing that making much noise , a rustling in the wind . BUT when the master comes and he searched for the FRUIT he made the tree to bring forth and findeth none (even after digging about it and tending to it year after year ) be assured he WILL cut that tree down and cast it into the fire .

for if he spared not the original branches for their unbelief and disobedience , shall he spare us who are by grace grafted in ? no EVERY BRANCH that bears not fruit will be CUT OFF .
people need to BOTH hear Gods word and then act upon it . and think not to themselves we have our denomination .

-this is the message i and many are sent with and so often hated for -except by those who listen and repent, for they joy in the lord with an exceeding joy full of glory and inexpressible . but the religious who wont let go of their own ways , they gnash with their teeth and opening their mouths wide against him ,they pierce his hands and his feet and gamble over his garments .

 

[Brighten04]

he is willing to forgive /vs he loves , these are two different things . he has loved and thus made a way of salvation to that rapist should that rapist turn TO God .then the outworking of his love will be realized ..if he does not he shall be cast into everlasting fire . because that's what god thinks of the unrepentant sinner . we don't burn what we love .
but that he "loved us " and made this great way of salvation available unto us is undeniable and is what is written for God so "loved" the world he made a way out of the coming judgment . but that coming judgement is still coming and will fall with vengeance upon all the ungodly for their ungodly ways . and how much more severe will it be for those who knowing the truth in Jesus still refused to cease their sin .

he did indeed die for us why we were still sinners .that is am amazing act of love towards us in order to save us from the sin we were dead in .
So again how much greater will his vengeance be upon those that disdain what he has done by ignoring it to continue stubbornly in their ungodly ways ? it is not love that he pours upon then it is Judgment .

a tree is known by its fruit . it is not those who say with their lips we are saved we ares saved but those that love him and how do we know those that love him .
he said "they OBEY ME " .it is also written that he is coming back for whom? for those that love him -ie those that Obey him .

loving some one is not just saying i love you i love you i love you .
what if your dad said that, then beat you violently and the said it again and beat you violently again without justice or mercy . his action, his fruit is one thing his words another . his fruit is fruit of selfish hate and anger the fruit shows what kind of tree he really is . no mater how much his lips say another thing .

God is always about multiplication of life . he says go be fruitful AND he says by the fruit you know what kind of tree it really is . whether good or evil .And he says a tree brings forth after its own kind .
so if a person really is a disciple of the lord Jesus ,they will produce more disciples . the fruitfulness of Adam and eve was more children of Adam and eve .
the fruit of the children of God in Christ Jesus ,are more children of God in Chrsit Jesus
it is astounding how many think that they adhere to a congregation a denomination , they do ere a little god deed ,there a little good deed ,sing a song ,pay some money , go to church twice and a weekly night meting . and they think they are fruitful ? they are leafy is all. a tree with many leaves doing this doing that making much noise , a rustling in the wind . BUT when the master comes and he searched for the FRUIT he made the tree to bring forth and findeth none (even after digging about it and tending to it year after year ) be assured he WILL cut that tree down and cast it into the fire .

for if he spared not the original branches for their unbelief and disobedience , shall he spare us who are by grace grafted in ? no EVERY BRANCH that bears not fruit will be CUT OFF .
people need to BOTH hear Gods word and then act upon it . and think not to themselves we have our denomination .

-this is the message i and many are sent with and so often hated for -except by those who listen and repent, for they joy in the lord with an exceeding joy full of glory and inexpressible . but the religious who wont let go of their own ways , they gnash with their teeth and opening their mouths wide against him ,they pierce his hands and his feet and gamble over his garments .

Oh, You are in the Jesus plus law camp. Now I understand. The good news is the righteousness of God through faith, not of works dear brother. First, without the Holy Ghost people cannot understand the Gospel Message.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

It is like this. God sent His son to pay our sin debt. To those who believe it and accepts this most precious gift of love, our Father imparts His righteousness ( not our own) to them. That is the good news that John 3:16 shares. That is what needs to be shared on the street. Jesus said repent! Turn from your own self righteousness and works. Come unto me ! Jesus says.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

The invitation is for every man/woman, even to the one who rapes a child.

Jesus did not come to save the religious. He came to seek and to save the lost. Sinners. Thinking that he hates sinners or should hate sinners is not characteristic of His nature. He has great love for sinners, but He will not force Himself on them.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You see, it is Jesus and faith in what He did that justifies, not works. If the law/works could save then there would be no need for Jesus to be crucified. Faith in His blood takes away our sin and imputes to us His righteousness. That is Amazing love!:arms:
So amazing it makes me want to sing and shout, Glory hallelujah !!:arms:

 

[Rens]

wow they are correct you are a stalker. no one has said he is not man .only that scripture satets he is now glorified and not as he was before and when he comes we shall be made like him ..why ? because we presently are not like him .we are still clothed in flesh and blood . you want to bring him down ?
most UNglorifying of you . we are done .

What a weird response for someone who speaks so much against sin.
It's a great text that shows God wants everyone saved and not because He hates them or only loved them when Jesus was crucified. He does not love everyone though. Another text says you should not pray for those who sin unto death, but that is about believers, not the world. I don't think He really loved the pharisees.

 

[Brighten04]

What a weird response for someone who speaks so much against sin.
It's a great text that shows God wants everyone saved and not because He hates them or only loved them when Jesus was crucified. He does not love everyone though. Another text says you should not pray for those who sin unto death, but that is about believers, not the world. I don't think He really loved the pharisees.

I think he loved the pharisees . But He knew they did not and would not accept Him.

 

[MoreCoffee]

wow they are correct you are a stalker. no one has said he is not man .only that scripture satets he is now glorified and not as he was before and when he comes we shall be made like him ..why ? because we presently are not like him .we are still clothed in flesh and blood . you want to bring him down ?
most UNglorifying of you . we are done .

Let's see if we are Alithis.

 

[Rens]

"They are correct. You are a stalker."
Who they? Me?
That was sarcasm LOL.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"They are correct. You are a stalker."
Who they? Me?
That was sarcasm LOL.

They're just to inattentive to notice that I click "new posts" and reply in threads that interest me that have new posts. If they happen to be writing lots of new posts (as is the case with Sword7) then they will probably see a reply from me if the thread is one I am interested in.

 

[Rens]

They're just to inattentive to notice that I click "new posts" and reply in threads that interest me that have new posts. If they happen to be writing lots of new posts (as is the case with Sword7) then they will probably see a reply from me if the thread is one I am interested in.

Yes that's what I always do too.

 

[Sword7]

Oh, You are in the Jesus plus law camp. Now I understand. The good news is the righteousness of God through faith, not of works dear brother. First, without the Holy Ghost people cannot understand the Gospel Message.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

It is like this. God sent His son to pay our sin debt. To those who believe it and accepts this most precious gift of love, our Father imparts His righteousness ( not our own) to them. That is the good news that John 3:16 shares. That is what needs to be shared on the street. Jesus said repent! Turn from your own self righteousness and works. Come unto me ! Jesus says.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

The invitation is for every man/woman, even to the one who rapes a child.

Jesus did not come to save the religious. He came to seek and to save the lost. Sinners. Thinking that he hates sinners or should hate sinners is not characteristic of His nature. He has great love for sinners, but He will not force Himself on them.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You see, it is Jesus and faith in what He did that justifies, not works. If the law/works could save then there would be no need for Jesus to be crucified. Faith in His blood takes away our sin and imputes to us His righteousness. That is Amazing love!:arms:
So amazing it makes me want to sing and shout, Glory hallelujah !!:arms:

I have not said any thing different to this in regard to salvation.
But -what law? Have I ever quoted any law other then the greatest commandment?

I will ask some questions for you to consider. I respect your conversational ability so I will reply in like to your questions also .if we can reply with the open honesty we would as the Lord is sitting at the same table with us.-for he is.

If the Lord Jesus says to me "come over here and speak to this person about me"
And I do not do it,am I a follower of him or of my own will and fleshly desire?
Nor have I said anything that is not in the scriptures.
Consider this, why is a a fruit tree planted?

And that about covers it all.

Tell me this .what is the sentence of scripture that follows everyone's favorite cherry picked verse of salvation by Grace?

Consider also this: in the letter from Jacob..(James) in order to calmly appreciate what he is saying.substitute the Word "works"
With the word "actions"
Now read through it slowly doing so.

Then consider this :why is it two people professing to have faith meet the same person who says "I have a severe head ache and gave had it for a week.
The first person says you must get to a Dr.
The second person says I will pray for you.lays hands on the person and commands healing in Jesus name.
Which of these two professes to have christian faith
And which actually Does have faith in Jesus?

What think you?
I edit to add a question. Upon what scripture do you base the Word "accept" ?

And this .Adam walk with God.
What separates them ?disobedience.
Before that there was none.since in Christ we are reconciled to God and Christ has atoned for our disobedience .are we reconciled to disobedience or to obedience ? Are we reconciled to sin or to righteousness ?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Faith without works is dead [SUP]James 2:26[/SUP] and faith works through love [SUP]Gal 5:6[/SUP] therefore let us love one another [SUP]1John 4:7[/SUP].

 

[Rens]

Then consider this :why is it two people professing to have faith meet the same person who says "I have a severe head ache and gave had it for a week.
The first person says you must get to a Dr.
The second person says I will pray for you.lays hands on the person and commands healing in Jesus name.
Which of these two professes to have christian faith
And which actually Does have faith in Jesus?

?

That is hard to say. Which one has saving faith? The one who says go to a doctor could be the father of Corrie ten Boom who thought it was God's will if they were sick. He had great real saving faith though. He gave his life to save Jews. The one who rebukes the sickness has got faith that God gave him authority to heal the sick, but it says nothing about his saving faith. It could be Judas. He was one who got sent out and healed the sick.
And the question which one has faith that God heals? Simply because one says go to a doctor doesn't mean he doesn't lay hands on and God uses both the doctor and the one who prays.
My son had pneumonia. I bet his dad laid hands on him. It wasn't immediately gone though so he brought him to a hospital, prayed and God said it's pneumonia. He needed that medicine. The doctor thought it was asthma though. I was in the other side of the country, got called. Took 4 hours before I was there. I said to the doctor: It's pneumonia. Check it again. Dad said so. Lol that face. Oh if dad said so, she said sarcastically, I think I'll hang my books and instruments in the willows. Lol but she checked again and it was right and he got the right meds and I rebuked that sickness and within one hour it was gone.
But the fact that people get healed says absolutely nothing about a person's walk with God. There will be many who will say Lord Lord didn't we do mighty miracles in Your Name? and He'll say: I never knew you.

 

[Lamb]

And this .Adam walk with God.
What separates them ?disobedience.
Before that there was none.since in Christ we are reconciled to God and Christ has atoned for our disobedience .are we reconciled to disobedience or to obedience ? Are we reconciled to sin or to righteousness ?

And yet even though Adam disobeyed, God was merciful and gave the hope of a Savior. God did not say that the Savior would only be given to him if he obeyed (Genesis 3). You see, the Gospel isn't about what we do or don't do because we cannot do it perfectly. God saves us because of what HE has done on the cross. For us. Your obedience doesn't earn you heaven.

 

[psalms 91]

And yet even though Adam disobeyed, God was merciful and gave the hope of a Savior. God did not say that the Savior would only be given to him if he obeyed (Genesis 3). You see, the Gospel isn't about what we do or don't do because we cannot do it perfectly. God saves us because of what HE has done on the cross. For us. Your obedience doesn't earn you heaven.

You are right, obedience does not earn us anything but disobedience can earn us hell

 

[Brighten04]

:hijacked: fftopic: Ok this thread is about the awesome Love of God for mankind, not about our obedience toward Him. I will start another thread about our faithfulness toward Him. Maybe I will copy and past Sword7's last post there so watch for it. I so hate it when threads are hijacked.

:focus: God loves us even though we are stiff necked and hard headed. Just as we still love our own children when they disobey us. We stumble and God's love picks us up, dusts us off, and sets us on solid ground. He does this over and over, and over, until we learn to walk with Him.

 

[Sword7]

And yet even though Adam disobeyed, God was merciful and gave the hope of a Savior. God did not say that the Savior would only be given to him if he obeyed (Genesis 3). You see, the Gospel isn't about what we do or don't do because we cannot do it perfectly. God saves us because of what HE has done on the cross. For us. Your obedience doesn't earn you heaven.

obedience doesn't earn anything. it takes what has been offered graciously and applies it .it the evidence that we truly believe and love Jesus .
he said if you love ,me you will obey me . again obedience does not EARN it is a consequence of truly loving him .if the good shepherd says to us follow me to eternal life ,that is a gracious offer that we could not and did not earn . if we obey him ,turn and follow him then we have taken his offer . many say yes yes lord but they don't go on to follow him .they love their own lives more . they love their house thier car their job thier things their man their lady .all these things are what Jesus said .

john 3 16 is a wonderful piece of text but it is not the whole message ,it never was and it is for the most part misrepresented .

 

[Brighten04]

obedience doesn't earn anything. it takes what has been offered graciously and applies it .it the evidence that we truly believe and love Jesus .
he said if you love ,me you will obey me . again obedience does not EARN it is a consequence of truly loving him .if the good shepherd says to us follow me to eternal life ,that is a gracious offer that we could not and did not earn . if we obey him ,turn and follow him then we have taken his offer . many say yes yes lord but they don't go on to follow him .they love their own lives more . they love their house thier car their job thier things their man their lady .all these things are what Jesus said .

john 3 16 is a wonderful piece of text but it is not the whole message ,it never was and it is for the most part misrepresented .

So you think, and I can accept that you think the verse is misrepresented. It is about God's love not ours.

 

[Brighten04]

Here is the link to the spill over thread.
http://christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?3304-Our-Faithfulness-vs-God-s-Faithfulness