The singular, unique, one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,201
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah, you believe something that you call the real presence but it is something other than the real presence taught by the Catholic Church and since you appear to want to partake in communion in a Catholic Church your own individual unique small Lutheran denominational teaching about the real presence will not do. It is heresy. It is error. That you give it the name "real presence" among yourselves does not make it true. It compounds the error in the teaching that your small individual unique tiny Lutheran denomination teaches.

:smirk:
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah, you believe something that you call the real presence but it is something other than the real presence taught by the Catholic Church and since you appear to want to partake in communion in a Catholic Church your own individual unique small Lutheran denominational teaching about the real presence will not do. It is heresy. It is error. That you give it the name "real presence" among yourselves does not make it true. It compounds the error in the teaching that your small individual unique tiny Lutheran denomination teaches.

:smirk:


I DO accept Real Presence - at least as much as the current RC Denomination does. I AM refused the Sacrament in the RC Denomination. Thus what you said is WRONG. I think you know it - but just won't admit your error, your deception.

I do NOT seek the Sacrament there BECAUSE I know I'm not permitted. So you again state a lie.

I do not accept AS DE FIDE DOGMA the new, unique, RCC alone view of Transubstantiation that the RCC adopted at the Council of Trent after Luther's death - I said that - and yes, that IS one of the reasons I'd be deny the Eucharist, but Transubstantiation is not Real Presence, it's a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH newer dogma embraced ONLY by it itself alone and only since the Council of Trent.... you did not say all who accept Transubstantiation as DE FIDE DOGMA are welcomed (and equally WRONG statement, equally a LIE), you stated all who accept Real Presence. I'm deny the Eucharist because I don't docilicly swallow whole WHATEVER the individual, singular, unique RC Denomination currently says BECAUSE it itself alone currently does..... NOT because I (like hundreds of millions of NON - RCC'er) accept Real Presence. You know that. You won't admit your error. Hum.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah, you believe something that you call the real presence but it is something other than the real presence taught by the Catholic Church and since you appear to want to partake in communion in a Catholic Church your own individual unique small Lutheran denominational teaching about the real presence will not do. It is heresy. It is error. That you give it the name "real presence" among yourselves does not make it true. It compounds the error in the teaching that your small individual unique tiny Lutheran denomination teaches.

:smirk:


I DO accept Real Presence - at least as much as the current RC Denomination does. I AM refused the Sacrament in the RC Denomination. Thus what you said is WRONG. I think you know it - but just won't admit your error, your deception.

I do NOT seek the Sacrament there BECAUSE I know I'm not permitted. So you again state a lie.

I do not accept AS DE FIDE DOGMA the new, unique, RCC alone view of Transubstantiation that the RCC adopted at the Council of Trent after Luther's death - I said that - and yes, that IS one of the reasons I'd be deny the Eucharist, but Transubstantiation is not Real Presence, it's a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH newer dogma embraced ONLY by it itself alone and only since the Council of Trent.... you did not say all who accept Transubstantiation as DE FIDE DOGMA are welcomed (and equally WRONG statement, equally a LIE), you stated all who accept Real Presence. I'm deny the Eucharist because I don't docilicly swallow whole WHATEVER the individual, singular, unique RC Denomination currently says BECAUSE it itself alone currently does..... NOT because I (like hundreds of millions of NON - RCC'er) accept Real Presence. You know that. You won't admit your error. Hum.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,201
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
This is what one must believe and teach in order to partake of communion in the Catholic Church.

THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST
271. What is the Eucharist?
The Eucharist is the very sacrifice of the Body and Blood of the Lord Jesus which he instituted to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the ages until his return in glory. Thus he entrusted to his Church this memorial of his death and Resurrection. It is a sign of unity, a bond of charity, a paschal banquet, in which Christ is consumed, the mind is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us.
272. When did Jesus Christ institute the Eucharist?​
Jesus instituted the Eucharist on Holy Thursday “the night on which he was betrayed” (1 Corinthians 11:23), as he celebrated the Last Supper with his apostles.​
273. How did he institute the Eucharist?
After he had gathered with his apostles in the Cenacle, Jesus took bread in his hands. He broke it and gave it to them saying, “Take this and eat it, all of you; this is my Body which will be given up for you”. Then, he took the cup of wine in his hands and said, “Take this and drink of this, all of you. This is the cup of my Blood, the Blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgive. Do this in memory of me”.
274. What does the Eucharist represent in the life of the Church?​
It is the source and summit of all Christian life. In the Eucharist, the sanctifying action of God in our regard and our worship of him reach their high point. It contains the whole spiritual good of the Church, Christ himself, our Pasch. Communion with divine life and the unity of the People of God are both expressed and effected by the Eucharist. Through the eucharistic celebration we are united already with the liturgy of heaven and we have a foretaste of eternal life.​
275. What are the names for this sacrament?
The unfathomable richness of this sacrament is expressed in different names which evoke its various aspects. The most common names are: the Eucharist, Holy Mass, the Lord’s Supper, the Breaking of the Bread, the Eucharistic Celebration, the Memorial of the passion, death and Resurrection of the Lord, the Holy Sacrifice, the Holy and Divine Liturgy, the Sacred Mysteries, the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar, and Holy Communion.​
276. Where does the Eucharist fit in the divine plan of salvation?
The Eucharist was foreshadowed in the Old Covenant above all in the annual Passover meal celebrated every year by the Jews with unleavened bread to commemorate their hasty, liberating departure from Egypt. Jesus foretold it in his teaching and he instituted it when he celebrated the Last Supper with his apostles in a Passover meal. The Church, faithful to the command of her Lord, “Do this in memory of me” (1 Corinthians 11:24), has always celebrated the Eucharist, especially on Sunday, the day of the Resurrection of Jesus.​
277. How is the celebration of the Holy Eucharist carried out?
The Eucharist unfolds in two great parts which together form one, single act of worship. The Liturgy of the Word involves proclaiming and listening to the Word of God. The Liturgy of the Eucharist includes the presentation of the bread and wine, the prayer or the anaphora containing the words of consecration, and communion.​
278. Who is the minister for the celebration of the Eucharist?
The celebrant of the Eucharist is a validly ordained priest (bishop or priest) who acts in the Person of Christ the Head and in the name of the Church.​
279. What are the essential and necessary elements for celebrating the Eucharist?
The essential elements are wheat bread and grape wine.​
280. In what way is the Eucharist a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ?
The Eucharist is a memorial in the sense that it makes present and actual the sacrifice which Christ offered to the Father on the cross, once and for all on behalf of mankind. The sacrificial character of the Holy Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution, “This is my Body which is given for you” and “This cup is the New Covenant in my Blood that will be shed for you” (Luke 22:19-20). The sacrifice of the cross and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one and the same sacrifice. The priest and the victim are the same; only the manner of offering is different: in a bloody manner on the cross, in an unbloody manner in the Eucharist.​
281. In what way does the Church participate in the eucharistic sacrifice?
In the Eucharist the sacrifice of Christ becomes also the sacrifice of the members of his Body. The lives of the faithful, their praise, their suffering, their prayers, their work, are united to those of Christ. In as much as it is a sacrifice, the Eucharist is likewise offered for all the faithful, living and dead, in reparation for the sins of all and to obtain spiritual and temporal benefits from God. The Church in heaven is also united to the offering of Christ.​
282. How is Christ present in the Eucharist?
Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist in a unique and incomparable way. He is present in a true, real and substantial way, with his Body and his Blood, with his Soul and his Divinity. In the Eucharist, therefore, there is present in a sacramental way, that is, under the Eucharistic species of bread and wine, Christ whole and entire, God and Man.​
283. What is the meaning of transubstantiation?
Transubstantiation*means the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of the Body of Christ and of the whole substance of wine into the substance of his Blood. This change is brought about in the eucharistic prayer through the efficacy of the word of Christ and by the action of the Holy Spirit. However, the outward characteristics of bread and wine, that is the “eucharistic species”, remain unaltered.​
284. Does the breaking of the bread divide Christ?
The breaking of the bread does not divide Christ. He is present whole and entire in each of the eucharistic species and in each of their parts.​
285. How long does the presence of Christ last in the Eucharist?
The presence of Christ continues in the Eucharist as long as the eucharistic species subsist.​
286. What kind of worship is due to the sacrament of the Eucharist?
The worship due to the sacrament of the Eucharist, whether during the celebration of the Mass or outside it, is the worship of latria, that is, the adoration given to God alone. The Church guards with the greatest care Hosts that have been consecrated. She brings them to the sick and to other persons who find it impossible to participate at Mass. She also presents them for the solemn adoration of the faithful and she bears them in processions. The Church encourages the faithful to make frequent visits to adore the Blessed Sacrament reserved in the tabernacle.​
287. Why is the Holy Eucharist the paschal banquet?
The Holy Eucharist is the paschal banquet in as much as Christ sacramentally makes present his Passover and gives us his Body and Blood, offered as food and drink, uniting us to himself and to one another in his sacrifice.​
288. What is the meaning of the altar?
The altar is the symbol of Christ himself who is present both as sacrificial victim (the altar of the sacrifice) and as food from heaven which is given to us (the table of the Lord).​
289. When does the Church oblige her members to participate at Holy Mass?
The Church obliges the faithful to participate at Holy Mass every Sunday and on holy days of obligation. She recommends participation at Holy Mass on other days as well.​
290. When must one receive Holy Communion?
The Church recommends that the faithful, if they have the required dispositions, receive Holy Communion whenever they participate at Holy Mass. However, the Church obliges them to receive Holy Communion at least once a year during the Easter season.​
291. What is required to receive Holy Communion?
To receive Holy Communion one must be fully incorporated into the Catholic Church and be in the state of grace, that is, not conscious of being in mortal sin. Anyone who is conscious of having committed a grave sin must first receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before going to Communion. Also important for those receiving Holy Communion are a spirit of recollection and prayer, observance of the fast prescribed by the Church, and an appropriate disposition of the body (gestures and dress) as a sign of respect for Christ.​
...
293. When is it possible to give Holy Communion to other Christians?
Catholic ministers may give Holy Communion licitly to members of the Oriental Churches which are not in full communion with the Catholic Church whenever they ask for it of their own will and possess the required dispositions. Catholic ministers may licitly give Holy Communion to members of other ecclesial communities only if, in grave necessity, they ask for it of their own will, possess the required dispositions, and give evidence of holding the Catholic faith regarding the sacrament.​
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
...
293. When is it possible to give Holy Communion to other Christians?
Catholic ministers may give Holy Communion licitly to members of the Oriental Churches which are not in full communion with the Catholic Church whenever they ask for it of their own will and possess the required dispositions. Catholic ministers may licitly give Holy Communion to members of other ecclesial communities only if, in grave necessity, they ask for it of their own will, possess the required dispositions, and give evidence of holding the Catholic faith regarding the sacrament.


Thus, you stated an error to Bill. The RCC does NOT welcome all Christians who accept Real Presence. Of course, giving evidence of swallowing whatever the singular, individual RC Denomination currently says about the Eucharist includes the new, unique, post-Trent DE FIDE DOGMA of Transubstantiation. So even in the very extreme exceptions of this tidbit you parroted, what you told Bill is wrong. There's NOTHING here about, "Protestants who happen to be in a parish owned and operated by the individual RC Denomination are welcomed to the Eucharist if they accept Real Presence as so many Protestants do - they need not accept any doctrines new and unique to the sole, individual RC Denomination." In fact, this snippet you found regarding "other Christians" doesn't even mention Real Presence - at all.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,201
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Thus, you stated an error to Bill. The RCC does NOT welcome all Christians who accept Real Presence. Of course, giving evidence of swallowing whatever the singular, individual RC Denomination currently says about the Eucharist includes the new, unique, post-Trent DE FIDE DOGMA of Transubstantiation. So even in the very extreme exceptions of this tidbit you parroted, what you told Bill is wrong. There's NOTHING here about, "Protestants who happen to be in a parish owned and operated by the individual RC Denomination are welcomed to the Eucharist if they accept Real Presence as so many Protestants do - they need not accept any doctrines new and unique to the sole, individual RC Denomination." In fact, this snippet you found regarding "other Christians" doesn't even mention Real Presence - at all.

Stop trolling please.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,283
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,283
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Quick question, isnt there a catholic section for posting all these doctrines of that church? If not there should be. thsat way it is all in a section where those interested could view it and would keep the board from appearing Catholic
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,201
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Quick question, isnt there a catholic section for posting all these doctrines of that church? If not there should be. thsat way it is all in a section where those interested could view it and would keep the board from appearing Catholic

What? Are you afraid of them or something?
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,283
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
What? Are you afraid of them or something?
Not at all but as we have discussed before there are those who got that impression and left would like to avoid that if possible. What is the problem with putting Catholic threads in the Catholic section?
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,201
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Not at all but as we have discussed before there are those who got that impression and left would like to avoid that if possible. What is the problem with putting Catholic threads in the Catholic section?

So they were so anti-Catholic that they could not endure seeing Catholic doctrine from official Catholic Church sources? They left for fear of reading the truth? I can't say I'm sorry about that. Maybe you are but that would be because you appear to dislike seeing Catholic doctrine. That's not a dislike or a fear that I have. :)
 

TurtleHare

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
1,057
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Catholic as in the Church of which I am a member in full communion with the holy see in Rome. The ancient Church that Christ founded and builds century after century.

Are you insinuating there are no unbelievers or hypocrites who are members of the RCC because if you claim that the Church that Jesus referred to is only the Roman Catholic Church then you are in error since Jesus would not include anyone who denied him entry into the heavens.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,201
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Are you insinuating there are no unbelievers or hypocrites who are members of the RCC because if you claim that the Church that Jesus referred to is only the Roman Catholic Church then you are in error since Jesus would not include anyone who denied him entry into the heavens.

Nope. The Catholic Church knows full well that among her earthly members are some hypocrites as well as some saints and some who are undecided and some who are progressing to true conversion of soul and spirit. On this matter the Lord explicitly taught that the Church has a mixed membership when he told the prarbles of the Kingdom. Think of the fishnet and the field and other parables that indicate mixed membership.

"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net which was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind; when it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into vessels but threw away the bad. So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.
(Mat 13:47-50)
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,283
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
So they were so anti-Catholic that they could not endure seeing Catholic doctrine from official Catholic Church sources? They left for fear of reading the truth? I can't say I'm sorry about that. Maybe you are but that would be because you appear to dislike seeing Catholic doctrine. That's not a dislike or a fear that I have. :)
No they wpould not belong to a website they considered for Catholics and had so much of it that they thought that is what it was. If that is what this is hidden then I will leave also. You have been told about this and it seems not to matter we have lost quite a few due to this. I quit bringing it up because nothing ever changes but there have been at least three others since I brought it up the last time, I am done bringing it up. If you wish to continue so be it but understand it is to the detriment of the site if it isnt confined to a section devoted to the Catholic point of view
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,201
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
No they wpould not belong to a website they considered for Catholics and had so much of it that they thought that is what it was. If that is what this is hidden then I will leave also. You have been told about this and it seems not to matter we have lost quite a few due to this. I quit bringing it up because nothing ever changes but there have been at least three others since I brought it up the last time, I am done bringing it up. If you wish to continue so be it but understand it is to the detriment of the site if it isnt confined to a section devoted to the Catholic point of view

They wouldn't fellowship with Catholics? That's sad. I am here where most of the other folk are not Catholics and it doesn't frighten me one little bit. :)
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.


Sure, the singular, individual RC Denomination can look in the mirror and conclude that it itself looks a lot like it itself. But is that unity ?????????

Sure, the singular, individual LDS Denomination can look in the mirror and conclude that it itself looks a lot like it itself. But is that unity ??????????

If I agree with none but me myself alone, am I united with any but ME? If the RC Denomination agrees with none but it itself alone, is it united with any but it itself alone ????????

When the individual RC Denomination insists that all others just shut up... admit they MUST be wrong because they disagree with the RCC and the RCC itself alone insists that the RCC alone can't be wrong so the RCC can't be wrong when the RCC alone insists it can't be wrong... and so docilicly submit to the unmitigated, unaccountable, god-like POWER of the singular RC Denomination to lord it over all like the Gentiles do..... is that ecumenism ????????



- Josiah


.
 
Last edited:

Rens

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,754
Age
54
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
In Relationship
lolcatsdotcomot4baboprn7idlfm.jpg
 
Last edited:

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,201
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah, this thread is not the thread about Unity. :)
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Top Bottom