The singular, unique, one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

[psalms 91]

I read it and it seems to me to be about building a case that the Catholic church is the only true church, nothing new in that claim, I am done fighting this stuff as it is pointless so Josiah I hope you can continue as I wont, bless you crother

 

[MoreCoffee]

Bill, read the opening post.

I read it and it seems to me to be about building a case that the Catholic church is the only true church, nothing new in that claim, I am done fighting this stuff as it is pointless so Josiah I hope you can continue as I wont, bless you crother

I recall writing Some folk complain that the Catholic Church is singular and unique as if those attributes were negative. I guess their complaint really amounts to a complaint that exactly one Church should exist rather than many denominations, meetings, groups, and churches all participating in some 'essential' definition of Christian faith and thus all being part of a single but "invisible church" - the church that Jesus said he would build. But is there any good reason to believe in this kind of multifarious entity made up of many denominations, meetings, groups, and churches rather than in one visible Catholic Church?

It looks like I was asking folk in the thread to explain what they see as negative about there being one church and to explain what they see as biblical about an invisible church consisting exclusively of those who are believers destined for heaven but who join themselves to all sorts of different denominations, meetings, groups, and independent bodies. Is Christ divided? Is the only unity of the Faith on earth an invisible one?

 

[Josiah]

I recall writing Some folk complain that the Catholic Church is singular and unique as if those attributes were negative. I guess their complaint really amounts to a complaint that exactly one Church should exist rather than many denominations, meetings, groups, and churches all participating in some 'essential' definition of Christian faith and thus all being part of a single but "invisible church" - the church that Jesus said he would build. But is there any good reason to believe in this kind of multifarious entity made up of many denominations, meetings, groups, and churches rather than in one visible Catholic Church?

It looks like I was asking folk in the thread to explain what they see as negative about there being one church and to explain what they see as biblical about an invisible church consisting exclusively of those who are believers destined for heaven but who join themselves to all sorts of different denominations, meetings, groups, and independent bodies. Is Christ divided? Is the only unity of the Faith on earth an invisible one?

No one complains that the church is one. It's just YOUR point that the individual Roman Catholic Denomination is one. Okay..... in a very limited sense, the singular RC Denomination is "united" with it itself - exclusively, solely, only, uniquely..... so what? The LDS is united with itself, too - does that prove anything about unity? About the RCC? Was Jesus praying that every single person, parish and denomination be "united" in some very limited sense ONLY and exclusively and soley and uniquely with it itself alone? How is the RC Denomination any different in this regard than is the LDS? Or UCC? Or UMC? OR URC? or UPC?

I don't disagree that the RC Denomination is a single denomination (it's you that denies that). It's all the absurd claims you make as the result of that.

I see nothing wrong with the church being one - but then I'm not talking about one denomination concluding that it looks a lot like the one it sees in the mirror.... I'm not talking about ANY denomination.... I'm talking about the church: not The Roman Catholic Denomination as you are.

 

[MoreCoffee]

No one complains that the church is one. ....

You do. You complain about the Catholic Church being one all the time. You can't help writing "the singular unique individual ..." in posts all across CH. It's like the concept of being unique, being the one Church that Christ builds is intolerable for your eyes to see in print! So I named this thread in honour of your oft repeated string of adjectives that you apply to the Catholic Church - as some sort of criticism of the Catholic Church's uniqueness. But being unique, being one, holy, catholic and apostolic is a good thing even if it infuriates you when a Catholic says it of the Catholic Church.

 

[Josiah]

You do.

Absurd. Over and over, I (and many other non-Catholics and non-Mormons) have affirmed what the Bible says and what the Creed proclaims - the church is ONE, holy, catholic community of believers. What I disagree with is the RCC and LDS's absurd, unbiblical, unhistorical claim that that specific denomination was directly founded by Jesus and that that, per se, means a whole bunch of absurd things..... the claim that if the RCC or LDS only has "unity" with none but it itself alone (which of course is at least as much true for EVERY other denomination one could name), ergo - well, a long litany of absurd, silly, illogical things MUST also be true (obviously for EVERY denomination since EVERY one is at least as "united" with itself alone as is the RCC or LDS ones).

You complain about the Catholic Church being one all the time.

Never. Not once. In fact, over and over, I have AGREED with you that the RC Denomination is one denomination. And I have agreed that it itself alone IS "united" with it itself exclusively, currently (in a very limited, meaningless sense) - just like every other denomination on the planet is "united" with it itself exclusively and currently in the same very limited since. My point has been: SO WHAT? How does the RCC being just like any other denomination we can name prove all the absurd, unbiblical, unhistorical, egotistical, power-grabbing, accountability-rejecting claims that the RCC itself makes for it itself exclusively?



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

 

[psalms 91]

Quit claiming that the RCC is the one true church and maybe you would not hear it so much. You confuse the word Catholic with your denom rather than the broader meaning

 

[Josiah]

The expected response to post 65.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It is the right response to give. The holy scriptures advise it.

 

[Josiah]

MoreCoffee,

You do.

Absurd.

Over and over, I (and many other non-Catholics and non-Mormons) have affirmed what the Bible says and what the Creed proclaims - the church is ONE, holy, catholic community of believers. What I disagree with is the RCC and LDS 's absurd, unbiblical, unhistorical claim that that specific denomination was directly founded by Jesus and that that, per se, means a whole bunch of absurd things..... the claim that if the RCC or LDS only has "unity" with none but it itself alone (which of course is at least as much true for EVERY other denomination one could name), ergo - well, a long litany of absurd, silly, illogical things MUST also be true (obviously for EVERY denomination since EVERY one is at least as "united" with itself alone as is the RCC or LDS ones).

You complain about the Catholic Church being one all the time.

Never. Not once.

In fact, over and over, I have AGREED with you that the RC Denomination is one denomination. And I have agreed that it itself alone IS "united" with it itself exclusively, currently (in a very limited, meaningless sense). Of course, so is every other denomination on the planet. Each one of them is "united" with it itself exclusively and currently in the same very limited since. My point has been: SO WHAT? How does the RCC being just like any other denomination we can name prove all the absurd, unbiblical, unhistorical, egotistical, power-grabbing, accountability-rejecting claims that the RCC itself makes for it itself exclusively?


Yes... sure.... the individual RC Denomination concludes that it itself alone looks a lot like what it itself alone sees in the mirror as it itself looks at it itself. You call that unity - and proof of a whole long, long, long chain of unbiblical, unhistorical, power-grabbing, accountability-evading things that the RC Denomination itself claims for it itself alone. Well, so what? The LDS looks a whole lot like the LDS, too. It officially and currently agrees with it itself in all the things it itself currently concludes are good for it itself to officially agree with it itself concerning..... just like the RCC denomination...... so what? How is it "unity" for the RCC to agree with none but ITSELF (and even that in a very, very limited sense)? How is it "unity" for the RC Denomination to be one with no other? How is it "unity" to only be in unity with the one self alone sees in the mirror but no other? This "unity" of institution, teaching and practice that you mention - there's no denomination WORSE at this than yours (although many others are just as bad). If you and your denomination give a rip about such unity, start with yourself - there is no denomination with less "unity" of this nature than yours. Physicians, heal thyself. I read your quotes and think "pot calling kettle black" Jesus' log/speck point.



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Josiah, I get a chuckle out of you reposting your old posts. It doesn't improve them but I get a laugh out of it.

 

[Josiah]

Josiah, I get a chuckle out of you reposting your old posts. It doesn't improve them but I get a laugh out of it.

... a profound argument.

I have no unity with you because you are not in communion with the Catholic Church


.

.

 

[psalms 91]

Keep posting that one Josiah as it shows the attitude perfectly of the catholic church towards the rest of us

 

[Josiah]

Keep posting that one Josiah as it shows the attitude perfectly of the catholic church towards the rest of us

MoreCoffee's "anti" attitude and rejection of us is actually more radical than that of the individual Roman Catholic denomination..... Which just adds to the irony of his whining about how OTHERS are the "anti's", how OTHERS reject Catholics, how OTHERS are divisive.