How long was the first day?

[tango]

We all know how long a day is. It's 24 hours, right? The time it takes the earth to revolve on its axis or, if you were living before the concept of heliocentricity was considered, the time it takes the sun to go around the earth. In modern terms it's 00:00:00 until 23:59:59; before modern timekeeping it was sunrise to sunrise or sunset to sunset.

Let's take a quick look at Genesis (emphasis is mine):

Gen 1:1-19 NKJV In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (2) The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (3) Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. (4) And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. (5) God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. (6) Then God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." (7) Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. (8) And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. (9) Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. (10) And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (11) Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so. (12) And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. (13) So the evening and the morning were the third day. (14) Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; (15) and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. (16) Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. (17) God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, (18) and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. (19) So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

v3 talks of God creating light, then v5 talks of God creating "Day" and "Night", and "evening and morning were the first day". But what was the light that created day and night? The most obvious answer is the sun, but then we see in v14 that God created "lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night" - the sun and the moon and the stars. That didn't happen until the fourth day.

Thus, any concept that a day relates to sunrise-to-sunrise or sunset-to-sunset doesn't work for the first three days simply because there was no sun to rise or set. So how long were the first three days?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Impossible to tell from scripture. Any suggestion as to a source of light before the fourth 'day' would only be speculation, based on the above.

 

[Lamb]

Scripture doesn't tell us that a day is any longer than our normal 24 hours in that beginning of creation. Did creation take a long time? Or could God easily do it in the blink of an eye...since He's God?

 

[psalms 91]

Does it not say that God spoke it and it came into being

 

[Josiah]

Well..... as I recall..... the thought is a "day" was about 6 hours long soon after that rather physical encounter that resulted in our Moon.... but that's entirely irrelevant, lol


I'm not at all sure that we should understand either Creation Celebration in Genesis 1 and 2 in the sense of modern, 21st Century geology, biology and physics. That, perhaps, would be an absurd level of eisegesis. While I think that ALL "spins" (that I know of) about this have problems, I'm pretty sure their purpose was never to explain Creation in terms of concepts and worldviews that wouldn't exist for thousands of years into the future. I tend to read the Bible as religious in nature, not as a science textbook. But I'm aware - and I respect - many Christians disagree with me (and I'm okay with that).



.

 

[Rens]

24 hours, they started to count from evening to morning. Before that? From when he created the earth and the heavens until He started to speak. No idea, time started in the evening I think.
I still think GAP theory is very plausable. It could be a recreation. The heavens were already there. Dunno.

 

[Rens]

We all know how long a day is. It's 24 hours, right? The time it takes the earth to revolve on its axis or, if you were living before the concept of heliocentricity was considered, the time it takes the sun to go around the earth. In modern terms it's 00:00:00 until 23:59:59; before modern timekeeping it was sunrise to sunrise or sunset to sunset.

Let's take a quick look at Genesis (emphasis is mine):

Gen 1:1-19 NKJV In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (2) The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (3) Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. (4) And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. (5) God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. (6) Then God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." (7) Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. (8) And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. (9) Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. (10) And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (11) Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so. (12) And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. (13) So the evening and the morning were the third day. (14) Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; (15) and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. (16) Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. (17) God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, (18) and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. (19) So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

v3 talks of God creating light, then v5 talks of God creating "Day" and "Night", and "evening and morning were the first day". But what was the light that created day and night? The most obvious answer is the sun, but then we see in v14 that God created "lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night" - the sun and the moon and the stars. That didn't happen until the fourth day.

Thus, any concept that a day relates to sunrise-to-sunrise or sunset-to-sunset doesn't work for the first three days simply because there was no sun to rise or set. So how long were the first three days?

Oh I understand the question. I think 24 hours otherwise the grass would die.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Scripture doesn't tell us that a day is any longer than our normal 24 hours in that beginning of creation. Did creation take a long time? Or could God easily do it in the blink of an eye...since He's God?

It also doesn't tell us that it isn't. It isn't stated. If the 24 hour periods weren't differentiated until the fourth 'day', how was 'time' measured? And, could God work outside the parameters of a literal 7-day period? All I would say is that we are approx. 6,000 years beyond the creation of Adam. As far as the age of the Earth...?

 

[Rens]

It also doesn't tell us that it isn't. It isn't stated. If the 24 hour periods weren't differentiated until the fourth 'day', how was 'time' measured? And, could God work outside the parameters of a literal 7-day period? All I would say is that we are approx. 6,000 years beyond the creation of Adam. As far as the age of the Earth...?

If He created the earth in the evening of day one (in the dark? for a God Who is Light, weird) I guess the text would have said so.
The morning stars were rejoicing when He laid the foundation of the earth it says in Job. So they were already created. Guess 1/3 fell after the earth was made, because there was darkness.

 

[tango]

Scripture doesn't tell us that a day is any longer than our normal 24 hours in that beginning of creation. Did creation take a long time? Or could God easily do it in the blink of an eye...since He's God?

Scripture doesn't tell us it was longer than 24 hours but neither does it state it was 24 hours. It merely says "evening and morning were the first day" without specifying what caused the evening and the morning. We know it can't have been the cycle of sunrise-sunset-sunrise as we currently understand it because the text is clear that the sun hadn't been created at that point - even though light had been created the sun wasn't to be created for another three of whatever time period is referred to as a "day" here. So "evening and morning" could mean just about any length of time, and the first three days don't necessarily even have to be the same length.

 

[JPPT1974]

Only God knows and that one day when we leave this earth and go to heaven, He will tell us! But I suppose 24 hours!

 

[Pedrito]

Might it help to have a closer look at the Hebrew word translated as "day" in English?

English "day", Hebrew יום (yom). Some examples.

Genesis 1:5: “And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.” Singular
Genesis 4:3 “And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.” Plural
Isaiah 30:8 “Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:” Singular
1 Kings 1:1 “Now king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he gat no heat.” Plural
2 Chronicles 21:19 “And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two years, his bowels fell out by reason of his sickness: so he died of sore diseases. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning of his fathers.” Plural, Plural
Genesis 18:11 “Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.” Plural
Joshua 23:1 “And it came to pass a long time after that the LORD had given rest unto Israel from all their enemies round about, that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age.” Plural, Plural
1 Samuel 9:20 “And as for thine [[~donkeys]] that were lost three days ago, set not thy mind on them; for they are found. And on whom is all the desire of Israel? Is it not on thee, and on all thy father's house?"” Plural, Singular
Deuteronomy 5:29 “O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever” Plural
Genesis 40:4 “And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season in ward.” Plural
and even
Genesis 5:23 “And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:” Plural
Genesis 17:12 “And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.” Plural

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The Brown-DriverBriggs' Hebrew Definitions gives the following translations for יום (yom):
1. day, time, year
...a. day (as opposed to night)
...b. day (24 hour period)
......1. as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
......2. as a division of time 1b
...c. a working day, a day's journey
...d. days, lifetime (pl.)
...e. time, period (general)
...f. year
...g. temporal references
......1. today
......2. yesterday
......3. tomorrow

So we see that יום (yom) can have many meanings. Not that that necessarily helps of itself.

==============================================================================================

But what about "evening and morning"? What can that possibly mean? Might "evening and morning" actually be the key to understanding what God's revelation is telling us?

Any ideas, anyone?

 

[NewCreation435]

The original word for day doesn't necessarily have to mean a 24 hour period of time. It can simply mean that there was a morning and evening. Though what that would look like without a sun or stars is beyond me.

 

[visionary]

The original word for day doesn't necessarily have to mean a 24 hour period of time. It can simply mean that there was a morning and evening. Though what that would look like without a sun or stars is beyond me.

How about the length of God's day until the fourth day when earth had its first day.

 

[tango]

How about the length of God's day until the fourth day when earth had its first day.

Sure, although as jsimms mentioned (and I'd alluded to in the OP) it's hard to see what "evening and morning" meant when there was no sunset and no sunrise, simply because there was no sun.

 

[Rens]

-

 

[Lamb]

The third day encompassed the creation of land and vegetation. God put land in the midst of the lower waters and called it "Earth."

We normally call our 24 hour period a day because of the earth's rotation. Since the earth wasn't there to rotate does it matter if it was 24 hours? God called it a Day so a day it was

 

[Pedrito]

Evening and Morning.

The first chapter of Genesis contains compressed, summarised information. It is not designed to convey detail, but rather concepts. Important concepts. Some of those concepts could only be understood by modern man, and therefore were clearly targeting modern man. (The same can be said for the second chapter.)

Pedrito suggests that the in early chapters of Genesis, God placed information that would demonstrate to man, in a period of growing scepticism towards organised religion (for quite valid reasons), that He Himself exits and is approachable.

"Evening and morning" is one such example. Until the emergence of modern science and astronomy, it was quite natural to consider that that expression referred to what we would call a 24-hour day. (Unless a person lived within the Arctic Circle.) Even though some people must have wondered how there could be evening and morning before the Sun was supposedly created.

But could God have actually been placing information that would confirm for modern man, that He exists?

==============================================================================================

Let's take a closer look at the characteristics of evening and morning.

As evening progresses, things become less clear. Detail vanishes. Individual leaves cannot be observed on trees. Buildings loose their corners. Without artificial light, it becomes difficult to read. Evening is characterised by lack of definition. Evening corresponds to chaos.

What about morning? As dawn approaches and the sun appears, detail progressively prevails. Individual leaves become observable on trees. Buildings corners magically reappear. Reading becomes easier. Morning is characterised by the appearance of progressive definition. Morning corresponds to order.

Evening and morning = chaos becoming order.

The modern man and woman can understand these things, and can recognise the hand of God in their recording. If they have a mind to. If there is a perceived message from God to a reader, that implies the possibility of personal relationship with the One who placed that message.

==============================================================================================

The “evening and morning” statements, especially before the supposed creation of the Sun, actually express a process, in correct order, that agrees with modern understandings of science.

And does that not beg the very sensible question: "How did the writer know?"

 

[tango]

Evening and Morning.

The first chapter of Genesis contains compressed, summarised information. It is not designed to convey detail, but rather concepts. Important concepts. Some of those concepts could only be understood by modern man, and therefore were clearly targeting modern man. (The same can be said for the second chapter.)

Pedrito suggests that the in early chapters of Genesis, God placed information that would demonstrate to man, in a period of growing scepticism towards organised religion (for quite valid reasons), that He Himself exits and is approachable.

"Evening and morning" is one such example. Until the emergence of modern science and astronomy, it was quite natural to consider that that expression referred to what we would call a 24-hour day. (Unless a person lived within the Arctic Circle.) Even though some people must have wondered how there could be evening and morning before the Sun was supposedly created.

But could God have actually been placing information that would confirm for modern man, that He exists?

==============================================================================================

Let's take a closer look at the characteristics of evening and morning.

As evening progresses, things become less clear. Detail vanishes. Individual leaves cannot be observed on trees. Buildings loose their corners. Without artificial light, it becomes difficult to read. Evening is characterised by lack of definition. Evening corresponds to chaos.

What about morning? As dawn approaches and the sun appears, detail progressively prevails. Individual leaves become observable on trees. Buildings corners magically reappear. Reading becomes easier. Morning is characterised by the appearance of progressive definition. Morning corresponds to order.

Evening and morning = chaos becoming order.

The modern man and woman can understand these things, and can recognise the hand of God in their recording. If they have a mind to. If there is a perceived message from God to a reader, that implies the possibility of personal relationship with the One who placed that message.

==============================================================================================

The “evening and morning” statements, especially before the supposed creation of the Sun, actually express a process, in correct order, that agrees with modern understandings of science.

And does that not beg the very sensible question: "How did the writer know?"

There are many situations that do beg the question of how the writer could have known, but I'm not sure that "evening and morning" concepts are among them. Since evening and morning, as we understand it, are caused by the rotation of the earth around the sun (or, as would have appeared to be the case prior to understanding of heliocentricity, the sun orbiting the earth), if anything this particular issue raises more questions because the writer was apparently describing something that couldn't possible have been happening at that time unless something else was at play.

Your descriptions of chaos and order don't really explain it because using those metaphors for evening and morning suggests that God brought order, then it degenerated into chaos and returned to order pretty much by itself.

 

[Pedrito]

In Post #19 0n Page 2, tango said:

Your descriptions of chaos and order don't really explain it because using those metaphors for evening and morning suggests that God brought order, then it degenerated into chaos and returned to order pretty much by itself.

Pedrito would like to point out that tango’s idea expressed as “evening and morning suggests that God brought order, then it degenerated into chaos and returned to order pretty much by itself” is a misapprehension of the situation.

What the text suggests is that for each phase of creation as recounted, God brought order out of chaos, not that order created by God spontaneously degenerated into chaos later on.

That concept is the “something else was at play” (ibid) that removes any problem associated with evening and morning being mentioned prior to visible light reaching the surface of the Earth.

As I've heard it said in the region of North America, "It works for me."