Shunning

[MoreCoffee]

Some Christian groups practise various forms of shunning for former members. Some people who are members of Christian groups will shun even if their group does not explicitly teach it. I've seen books and handbooks that mention this passage as the reason for shunning:

As I have written to you in an epistle: "Do not associate with fornicators," certainly not with the fornicators of this world, nor with the greedy, nor with robbers, nor with the servants of idolatry. Otherwise, you ought to depart from this world. But now I have written to you: do not associate with anyone who is called a brother and yet is a fornicator, or greedy, or a servant of idolatry, or a slanderer, or inebriated, or a robber. With such a one as this, do not even take food. For what have I to do with judging those who are outside? But do not even you yourselves judge those who are inside? For those who are outside, God will judge. But send this evil person away from yourselves. [1 Corinthians 5:9-13]​

What is your practise and what do you make of saint Paul's words in the passage?

 

[Rens]

We had a bunch who fell in sin since living together is considered normal in Holland so they left church. I stay Facebook friends. Especially the girls, I understand them. It's either being alone always or fornicate here. Just pray they come back but don't bombard them with warnings. When I lived in sin a couple from the former church came over and when they saw we lived together they didn't know how fast they could leave, like you were a lepard or something. Only one who acted normal was my mom. She kept associating with me and kept praying. Jesus hung out with sinners too to convert them. Sometimes you must cut it off though if they trie to drag you into it.

 

[Rens]

evil person, send them away. My you don't hear that preach, harsh words but true. I remember I visited a church when I lived in obvious sin. It was adultery too if you ask me because I had no Biblical reason I think. At least it was fornication. I lived together with an atbeist and wasn't even divorced legally yet. They said notbing about it, laid hands on me to pray and said with coffee: you're such a nice couple. Why dont you get married? Sweet people but oh my. I just left myself to protect that pastor that he wouldn't lay hands on me. No warning from noone whatsoever, also not from my former church. If there had been one hell and doom preacher who warned me it would never even have happened.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Civil marriage has become a contract like a business contract. Sacramental marriage is mostly ignored today.

 

[visionary]

It is always back to the heart of the matter, whether in words or deeds. It is back to the individuals, rather than the collective or congregation, that make the difference. Personal relationship with God is not dependent on the church, but on Him who can save you. No matter how far into sin or away from sin, God is there to lead you into the truth, the way and the life in Him. We just need to listen to Him more.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It is always back to the heart of the matter, whether in words or deeds. It is back to the individuals, rather than the collective or congregation, that make the difference. Personal relationship with God is not dependent on the church, but on Him who can save you. No matter how far into sin or away from sin, God is there to lead you into the truth, the way and the life in Him. We just need to listen to Him more.

The holy scriptures do not teach that one is saved individually apart from the body of Christ (the church).

 

[Rens]

Civil marriage has become a contract like a business contract. Sacramental marriage is mostly ignored today.

Yes here you have to first get married civil before you can marry in church, so you have to say yes two times. With civil marriage you dont even say til death do us part anymore.

 

[visionary]

The holy scriptures do not teach that one is saved individually apart from the body of Christ (the church).

Really... When did Yeshua say come "church" be "born again" be "baptised" "follow me" ? It has always been individually....After you can gather together, even if it is only two or three...

 

[psalms 91]

Really... When did Yeshua say come "church" be "born again" be "baptised" "follow me" ? It has always been individually....After you can gather together, even if it is only two or three...

Exactly, it is individual and very personal as our walk with Him is as well if we are truly in Him

 

[MoreCoffee]

Really... When did Yeshua say come "church" be "born again" be "baptised" "follow me" ? It has always been individually....After you can gather together, even if it is only two or three...

Saint Paul wrote that "We were baptised into one body in a single Spirit, Jews as well as Greeks, slaves as well as free men, and we were all given the same Spirit to drink." [1 Corinthians 12:13] The "we" he writes about is the church - specifically, the body of Christ. This body is composed of "a unity although it has many parts -- all the parts of the body, though many, still making up one single body" [1 Corinthians 12:12]. So one is truly born of water and the spirit (born from above) into the body of Christ which is the church.

 

[visionary]

Saint Paul wrote that "We were baptised into one body in a single Spirit, Jews as well as Greeks, slaves as well as free men, and we were all given the same Spirit to drink." [1 Corinthians 12:13] The "we" he writes about is the church - specifically, the body of Christ. This body is composed of "a unity although it has many parts -- all the parts of the body, though many, still making up one single body" [1 Corinthians 12:12]. So one is truly born of water and the spirit (born from above) into the body of Christ which is the church.

Still no collective. Salvation is not found in the church, it is found in the heart of the individual who has a personal relationship with God.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Still no collective. Salvation is not found in the church, it is found in the heart of the individual who has a personal relationship with God.

Since "church" means "body of Christ" why do you say that "Salvation is not found in the church"?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So is shunning allowable as a church's official teaching given the damage it inflicts on families and individuals?

 

[MennoSota]

It's clear that members of the church community who are in unrepentant sin need to be disciplined according to Matthew 18. If the person is still unrepentant the elders/deacons must remove the person from membership until that person repents before the community of believers. 1 Corinthians 5 and 2 Corinthians 2.
Matthew 18:15-20 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosedin heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
2 Corinthians 2:5-11 Now if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measure—not to put it too severely—to all of you. For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough, so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything. Anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

 

[tango]

So is shunning allowable as a church's official teaching given the damage it inflicts on families and individuals?

Not sure why you resurrected a nearly three-year-old thread to ask the same question that you already addressed in the opening post?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not sure why you resurrected a nearly three-year-old thread to ask the same question that you already addressed in the opening post?

I reopened it because the same thought occurred to me and a good answer is yet to come.

 

[Josiah]

I'm not sure there is a "good answer."

"Shunning" is a very specific custom of a tiny few denominations and cults. It seems to flow from the same verses traditionally used for excommunication, etc. (consider those suggested by MennoSota for example). The church has often put out of itself false teachers and those who clearly discredit the Gospel - but the HOW and WHEN of all that varies a lot, including by century.

MoreCoffee, perhaps if you shared WHAT specifically about this practice troubles you... if you were a bit specific, there might be more helpful discussion.


Good to have you here!


- Josiah

 

[tango]

I reopened it because the same thought occurred to me and a good answer is yet to come.

You quoted an answer from Scripture. Is that not a good enough answer?

 

[atpollard]

Some Christian groups practise various forms of shunning for former members. Some people who are members of Christian groups will shun even if their group does not explicitly teach it. I've seen books and handbooks that mention this passage as the reason for shunning:

As I have written to you in an epistle: "Do not associate with fornicators," certainly not with the fornicators of this world, nor with the greedy, nor with robbers, nor with the servants of idolatry. Otherwise, you ought to depart from this world. But now I have written to you: do not associate with anyone who is called a brother and yet is a fornicator, or greedy, or a servant of idolatry, or a slanderer, or inebriated, or a robber. With such a one as this, do not even take food. For what have I to do with judging those who are outside? But do not even you yourselves judge those who are inside? For those who are outside, God will judge. But send this evil person away from yourselves. [1 Corinthians 5:9-13]​

What is your practise and what do you make of saint Paul's words in the passage?

Shunning seems gentler than the Old Testament equivalent ... stoning.

... and, yes, I choose to confront and then have nothing to do with (shun) the goats, false teachers and wolves that enter the congregation to sow mischief and harm God’s people. (But only because stoning them is illegal).

 

[MoreCoffee]

Shunning seems gentler than the Old Testament equivalent ... stoning.

... and, yes, I choose to confront and then have nothing to do with (shun) the goats, false teachers and wolves that enter the congregation to sow mischief and harm God’s people. (But only because stoning them is illegal).

Would you do that to family members, your mother or father, sister or brother, child?