Speaking in tongues?

[tango]

I guess nobody thought that the video clip was a recording of a message from God (including the gibberish spoken in it). That is no surprise yet many believed it was at the time and the poster of the video clip (on youtube) seems to believe it is a message from God or at the very least that it could be. The tongues in that message could quite easily be transcribed .. ying ding bing etcetera .. tuta. Well, I am still waiting from sommebody to produce a credible example coherent translatable language spoken in a charismatic meeting as 'tongues'.

I didn't watch the video, to be honest if something is videoed in church the chances are I won't be interested in it.

As a rule I don't go to prayer meetings or church services primed and ready to capture something the moment it happens. The only part of a service I'm usually interested in having recorded is the sermon, and that's just for the benefit of those who couldn't make it to the service.

The fact someone produces a video that some say is a great move of God and others say is bunk doesn't prove anything one way or the other. You might as well put some fluffy white wool on a wolf, prove that this "sheep" is really a wolf and conclude that there's no such thing as a sheep.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I didn't watch the video, to be honest if something is videoed in church the chances are I won't be interested in it.

As a rule I don't go to prayer meetings or church services primed and ready to capture something the moment it happens. The only part of a service I'm usually interested in having recorded is the sermon, and that's just for the benefit of those who couldn't make it to the service.

The fact someone produces a video that some say is a great move of God and others say is bunk doesn't prove anything one way or the other. You might as well put some fluffy white wool on a wolf, prove that this "sheep" is really a wolf and conclude that there's no such thing as a sheep.

It certainly was a fake in the case of the video but the faker was (at the time, he is dead now) a very influential preacher and teacher and many regard him as the founder of the Word of Faith movement, his name is Kenneth Hagan. I doubt any video of fakes can prove that real tongues does not exist and that is not my purpose anyway. I gave it as an example of a positive video put up on youtube by somebody who appears to admire Kenneth Hagan yet nevertheless in retrospect it is a fake. My purpose is to show that fakes abound among the elite of the Word of Faith movement. In fact finding "the real" examples of 'tongues' is almost impossible despite there being (allegedly) 500,000,000 people involved in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement.

 

[vasquez.emmanuel]

your points are mere distractions . my purpose is my point which is ,.. you look on the outer appearance and make a final judgment in your heart . but god looks on the heart and knows all things .
your judgment of the matter can never be correct from that perspective .
simply because you do not understand a spiritual language does not mean it is not a language .saying it doesn't make it so .

you have listened and you have judged .. but you are wrong in your judgments .because you simply have no grounds upon which to base that judgment .

sure you can look at the fruits and judge whether a person is walking in both belief and obedience to God .
But you simply cannot listen to tongues and judge whether it be tongues or not .it is simply not honest to say that .
You will note that tongues are not "translated " as earthly language can be . they are "interpreted" by the same Holy Spirit because the carnal mind cannot do so .

if you wish to speak of testing spirits then make judgments of that which is spoken in the churches in your own language first -a tongue you do understand .teachings of the abominations of idols and queens of heaven and blatant lies against the direct unambiguous word of god .. judge your own house first before you point the finger at another and without any basis make such a bold claim against the things of the Holy Spirit saying .. "that is not tongues " when you simply do not and cannot know .

Can you quote scripture where it talks about the ability to speak in tongues? I think it is taken out of context.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

 

[Alithis]

It's all like that trope "ishoodabotahondabutibotakia" said with some speed and proper syllable division the above sounds like many a 'tongue' message but in this case it has real meaning and content yet it is not a message from heaven.

your still referring to a few examples ,without the abilty to interpret (not translate note ) and making such an absolute judgment .(i question why your so determined to make that judgment or again on what grounds you make it . as tongues is not of the flesh (thus not bound by the rules of the flesh noe the comprehensions of mans intellect ) but "of the spirit " . what is it you are basing your judgments of the things of the spirit on to make claims that sound little more then poorly masked attempts at mockery .?

im not a follower of hagan , but i would not be so swift to make such absolute judgments .. a man makes error .. the holy Spirit does not . the ability to speak in tongues is not an automatic validation of what the speaker does or teaches for he may act and teach from the flesh but the tongues of the spirit is "of the Spirit"
typing apparent babble across the screen like i do now - lezi kungekho nkulunkulu kodwa ophezukonke and then declaring it babbel simply because one does not understand it does not automatically make it babbel -it just shows your not able to interpret it .nothing more . (as the apparent babble which i have typed displays )
there is absolutely no scripture to say these gifts have ceased. it is like saying god ceased at the end of the apostolic generation .. but no .. he is God to all the generations which have followed being faithful to his own word to all who believe .for the promises are to those who will believe and are missed only by those who will not believe for it is by unbelief that the children of Israel did not enter into the promise and it is by the same unbelief that we do not receive the promises of god . God is faithful to his word ALWAYS .
it is not a small thing that it is written the carnal mind cannot perceive the things of the Spirit for it is at enmity .
thus , as long as we attempt to approach the topic from the fleshly intellect we will only find ourselves at enmity .-which is almost always plainly evident when ever the topic arises

 

[Alithis]

Well we don't even have to pray in words because as we feel emotion we can direct them towards God too. He knows our needs before we tell hm.

and yet throughout the all the scripture that which is within the heart is expressed outward from the mouth (for from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks ) however this expression which could be voiced in no more then sigh or groan is the closet i have seen to some one comprehending tongues ..the language of the Spirit is not limited by the rules of the carnal nature nor comprehensions and the holy Spirit makes just such intercession for us .. being that he is the holy spirit of the lord Jesus in a language that transcends all carnal reason and comprehensions .

 

[Hammster]

And still no biblical support given.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[MoreCoffee]

your still referring to a few examples ,without the abilty to interpret (not translate note ) and making such an absolute judgment .(i question why your so determined to make that judgment or again on what grounds you make it . as tongues is not of the flesh (thus not bound by the rules of the flesh noe the comprehensions of mans intellect ) but "of the spirit " . what is it you are basing your judgments of the things of the spirit on to make claims that sound little more then poorly masked attempts at mockery .?

im not a follower of hagan , but i would not be so swift to make such absolute judgments .. a man makes error .. the holy Spirit does not . the ability to speak in tongues is not an automatic validation of what the speaker does or teaches for he may act and teach from the flesh but the tongues of the spirit is "of the Spirit"
typing apparent babble across the screen like i do now - lezi kungekho nkulunkulu kodwa ophezukonke and then declaring it babbel simply because one does not understand it does not automatically make it babbel -it just shows your not able to interpret it .nothing more . (as the apparent babble which i have typed displays )
there is absolutely no scripture to say these gifts have ceased. it is like saying god ceased at the end of the apostolic generation .. but no .. he is God to all the generations which have followed being faithful to his own word to all who believe .for the promises are to those who will believe and are missed only by those who will not believe for it is by unbelief that the children of Israel did not enter into the promise and it is by the same unbelief that we do not receive the promises of god . God is faithful to his word ALWAYS .
it is not a small thing that it is written the carnal mind cannot perceive the things of the Spirit for it is at enmity .
thus , as long as we attempt to approach the topic from the fleshly intellect we will only find ourselves at enmity .-which is almost always plainly evident when ever the topic arises

Interpret means translate; they are the same thing when going from one language to another. If the 'tongues' that folk speak today cannot be translated then they can't be interpreted either and the stuff that's passed off as 'interpretation' is not interpretation. It's no more than a second bit or vocalisation in the meeting only instead of being gibberish it is in a real language that the majority of the congregation can understand. It's value (or lack of value) can be judged by those who hear it. The video clip has a lengthy example of 'tongues' followed by something in English that some will say is 'interpretation' judge the value of the 'interpretation' for yourself.

PS: the 'tongues' message in my earlier post is, being interpreted, I should have bought a Honda but I bought a Kia.

 

[Alithis]

And still no biblical support given.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

to which ? that tongues are a part and parcel expression and manifestation of the Holy Ghost or that such things have ceased .? i know they have not ceased as i have experienced and do experience such things often enough . one thing i do know for sure is .. there is no scripture to validate the claim that the things of the Spirit have ceased because the lord Jesus has not yet bodily returned .. and until he does His spirit will continue to do his will in the earth

 

[Alithis]

Interpret means translate; they are the same thing when going from one language to another. If the 'tongues' that folk speak today cannot be translated then they can't be interpreted either and the stuff that's passed off as 'interpretation' is not interpretation. It's no more than a second bit or vocalisation in the meeting only instead of being gibberish it is in a real language that the majority of the congregation can understand. It's value (or lack of value) can be judged by those who hear it. The video clip has a lengthy example of 'tongues' followed by something in English that some will say is 'interpretation' judge the value of the 'interpretation' for yourself.

PS: the 'tongues' message in my earlier post is, being interpreted, I should have bought a Honda but I bought a Kia.

again you speak from carnal reasoning . for even a message in ones own tongue ,at times, cannot be understood without its meaning being interpreted correctly .so obviously interpretation and translation are not always the same thing .
But it leaves you still in the same boat ... you make a judgment of that which you are not able to make judgment of .

 

[MoreCoffee]

again you speak from carnal reasoning . for even a message in ones own tongue ,at times, cannot be understood without its meaning being interpreted correctly .so obviously interpretation and translation are not always the same thing .
But it leaves you still in the same boat ... you make a judgment of that which you are not able to make judgment of .

One begins to discern that your posts use carnal as a synonym for correct and presumably they use 'spiritual' for irrational and incorrect.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Here's an example of the kind of hedging near empty nonsense that even a prominent Evangelical pastor will propagate in the name of being open to spiritual gifts.

It's the old "IshouldaboughtahondabutIboughtaKia" thing, say banana backwards (ananab) repeatedly and rapidly he says, as an example of how one might go about a fake reception of the gift. Impartial observance of people coming into a Pentecostal meeting and hearing tongues and learning to speak like the others is rather good proof that the common 'tongues' one hears in such meetings are as fake as a three dollar bill.

 

[YESLORDIWILL]

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

to which ? that tongues are a part and parcel expression and manifestation of the Holy Ghost or that such things have ceased .? i know they have not ceased as i have experienced and do experience such things often enough . one thing i do know for sure is .. there is no scripture to validate the claim that the things of the Spirit have ceased because the lord Jesus has not yet bodily returned .. and until he does His spirit will continue to do his will in the earth

What is the value of experience without growth? If I pray (speak) in tongues because I am able, but cannot interpret, Paul effectively tells me to "shut up" (I Cor. 14:28a, ID2 Version ). If I pray in tongues, but cannot approach the Lord in innocent faith, praying in English, there is no value to my prayer.
I became so fed up with "tongues" that at one point, I refused to continue. I would literally stop myself and say "in English...", then continue. One lady became so obsessed with herself and her emotional outburst two inches from my ear, screaming gibberish, that I never went back to a Pentecostal church. I never intend to again.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that the "tongues" of the bible were foreign languages that were understood by the listeners. Those that did not understand the foreign language had the message interpreted for them. I'm also convinced that this same thing can happen today by the intervention of God. Not gibberish, but a known language used to preach the word of God to those that need to hear.

 

[tango]

Here's an example of the kind of hedging near empty nonsense that even a prominent Evangelical pastor will propagate in the name of being open to spiritual gifts.

It's the old "IshouldaboughtahondabutIboughtaKia" thing, say banana backwards (ananab) repeatedly and rapidly he says, as an example of how one might go about a fake reception of the gift. Impartial observance of people coming into a Pentecostal meeting and hearing tongues and learning to speak like the others is rather good proof that the common 'tongues' one hears in such meetings are as fake as a three dollar bill.

The trouble is that however many examples of something fake that are produced it doesn't demonstrate that there is no such thing as the real deal.

You could line up a room full of fake $100 bills and that doesn't change the fact that real $100 bills continue to exist.

It really is a problem when the kind of monkey-see-monkey-do mentality gets people to mimic the "shunda, kushandai" style of tongues and think they are being super-spiritual, but none of that changes the reality of the person who prays in tongues in the privacy of their own home, never recording themselves speaking in tongues because it's about praying to God rather than standing up to receive recognition from man.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The trouble is that however many examples of something fake that are produced it doesn't demonstrate that there is no such thing as the real deal.

You could line up a room full of fake $100 bills and that doesn't change the fact that real $100 bills continue to exist.

It really is a problem when the kind of monkey-see-monkey-do mentality gets people to mimic the "shunda, kushandai" style of tongues and think they are being super-spiritual, but none of that changes the reality of the person who prays in tongues in the privacy of their own home, never recording themselves speaking in tongues because it's about praying to God rather than standing up to receive recognition from man.

I do not think one needs to prove that no genuine tongue speaking exists if one can show that every example that can be documented is false. The goal is not to disprove the existence of a genuine gift the point is to show that the examples we can examine are fake. That's all that's needed. Benny Hinn speaks in fake 'tongues' and so did Kenneth Hagin. Creflo Dollar does the same and so does Kenneth Copeland. Joyce Meyer fakes it and so did Oral Roberts. I do not know of any example among such men, televangelists and prominent preachers, that is not fake. And among the less well known folk, the members of congregations and people I have known who spoke in 'tongues' I know of none that when tested and checked proved to be genuine but I know many that proved to be fake and I know many who subsequently told me and others that it was fake.

 

[Hammster]

to which ? that tongues are a part and parcel expression and manifestation of the Holy Ghost or that such things have ceased .? i know they have not ceased as i have experienced and do experience such things often enough . one thing i do know for sure is .. there is no scripture to validate the claim that the things of the Spirit have ceased because the lord Jesus has not yet bodily returned .. and until he does His spirit will continue to do his will in the earth

There's no support for the jibberish you speak. Tongues in the bible is a known language. It's not unintelligible whoopdeedo that's passed off as worship.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[psalms 91]

There's no support for the jibberish you speak. Tongues in the bible is a known language. It's not unintelligible whoopdeedo that's passed off as worship.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

Your opinion, millions disagree with you and the witness I have within me disagrees as well

 

[Hammster]

Your opinion, millions disagree with you and the witness I have within me disagrees as well

I know. Experience trumps scripture.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Your opinion, millions disagree with you and the witness I have within me disagrees as well

Ah yes, the "witness I have within me". I always wondered at that one. Pentecostal speak for "my opinion on the matter, based on emotional experience, is..."
And I've been there, done that, got the UPC T-shirt.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I have never spoken in tongues, but I have heard them and believe they happen today.