God Does NOT Heal All - CHRISTIAN Discussion

[psalms 91]

We are the New Adams when God gives us faith and we believe in the Savior and forgiveness of sins won at the cross for us. That is healing but yet we are still here in these sinful bodies that get sick and die. When Jesus returns, we shall be resurrected and get NEW bodies which will not get sick or die. That is the ultimate healing that God has promised us.

And in the meantime God means for us to suffer?

 

[Lamb]

And in the meantime God means for us to suffer?

God allows us to suffer.

 

[psalms 91]

God allows us to suffer.

True but not His will for us

 

[Lamb]

True but not His will for us

If he allows it and then takes us to heaven through death, then what was His will?

 

[tango]

Why is it such a problem to believe that God saves us, God heals some but not all,*.?
..because the same blood shed to save is from the same body broken to heal.

You use the same faith .
this lack of discernment of his body is why so many amoung you are sick and some die early.

Can you answer questions without endlessly repeating your narrow interpretation of one Bible verse?

If you want to throw around comments about a lack of discernment you need to consider why your wife is crippled (your words, not mine). Perhaps God is wanting to miraculously heal her at some point in the future, perhaps God wants to use her in a way that he couldn't use someone who is fully able-bodied. I personally know a lady who has been disabled since birth (she's in her 60s now) and her disabilities have grown worse over the years as she puts greater and greater stresses on her body in ways it wasn't designed for. Now she mostly gets around in an electric scooter, and still praises God for being able to use her with her disabilities. She said that if she were able bodied it was unlikely that God would have used her in anything like the same way. Of course she'd rather not struggle with everyday tasks like getting a glass of water (I don't imagine it's easy for her to even get dressed in the morning) but she thanks God for all the blessings she does have in her life.

The same blood shed to save us assures us of healing, just not necessarily healing of our mortal bodies. We all have to die sooner or later, we are all called to "take up our cross and follow", but the blood shed for our salvation assures us of a place in heaven where we will never again taste sickness or death.

 

[tango]

Not all will be saved just as not all will be healed but we know Gods will in this

You keep saying you know God's will but never seem to be able to support the claims with anything more than vague comments about faith.

 

[Alithis]

And in the meantime God means for us to suffer?

that would be rather evil of him .. are we back to attributing god with evil ? he rebuked jobs advisers for that .

 

[Alithis]

Can you answer questions without endlessly repeating your narrow interpretation of one Bible verse?

If you want to throw around comments about a lack of discernment you need to consider why your wife is crippled (your words, not mine). Perhaps God is wanting to miraculously heal her at some point in the future, perhaps God wants to use her in a way that he couldn't use someone who is fully able-bodied. I personally know a lady who has been disabled since birth (she's in her 60s now) and her disabilities have grown worse over the years as she puts greater and greater stresses on her body in ways it wasn't designed for. Now she mostly gets around in an electric scooter, and still praises God for being able to use her with her disabilities. She said that if she were able bodied it was unlikely that God would have used her in anything like the same way. Of course she'd rather not struggle with everyday tasks like getting a glass of water (I don't imagine it's easy for her to even get dressed in the morning) but she thanks God for all the blessings she does have in her life.

The same blood shed to save us assures us of healing, just not necessarily healing of our mortal bodies. We all have to die sooner or later, we are all called to "take up our cross and follow", but the blood shed for our salvation assures us of a place in heaven where we will never again taste sickness or death.

you yourself have not heard a word iv said .

go and read the NEW testament about the NEW covenant ,, i don't base it on one verse i base it upon the entirety of the new covenant .

 

[Alithis]

God allows us to suffer.

to allow means to give express permission .

he says when we follow Jesus and obey him we will suffer persecution.not because he gives express permission to the persecutors but because he knows what they are like and what they will do

when a man beats his wife .. he acts in opposition to god . does god allow it ? no . it is an act of rebellion against god . done WITHOUT express permission from god .

it says god can work it together for good . he can take the evil the enemy does and turn it on the enemies head and make the final outcome for his children wonderful .but he does not DO evil in order to work it toward good. he IS GOOD .

 

[Alithis]

honestly i tire of this god some speak of .. he is not My GOD

this god you speak of cannot save from sin
cannot set free from sin
leaves his children as slaves to an enemy
does mean egotistical things to his own children making them suffer
is picky and choosy about who he heals
cant heal all his children
cant give his children any victory
makes a covenant in promise and then withholds delivering on it .. ???

that not the lord Jesus i know and love .

my lord set me free from the power of sin so i don't have to serve it any more
he delivers me now
he heals now
he is faithful and true to his word
he loves his children and cares for them
he takes the worst things that can happen and works them together for good .. he does not DO the worsts things to me .

 

[Alithis]

Also healing is included in salvation

exactly

 

[tango]

you yourself have not heard a word iv said .

go and read the NEW testament about the NEW covenant ,, i don't base it on one verse i base it upon the entirety of the new covenant .

It's rather comical that you should say I'm not hearing your words, given you previously complained I was dissecting your posts.

This may come as a shock but I have actually read the New Testament in its entirety. I don't see your conclusions can be supported by the New Testament, or the Old Testament, or what I see with my own eyes. Jesus told us to take up our crosses and follow him. What makes you think that we can suffer as he suffered, take up our crosses, but do so while enjoying perfect health? Doesn't that seem absurd to you?

 

[tango]

honestly i tire of this god some speak of .. he is not My GOD

this god you speak of cannot save from sin
cannot set free from sin
leaves his children as slaves to an enemy
does mean egotistical things to his own children making them suffer
is picky and choosy about who he heals
cant heal all his children
cant give his children any victory
makes a covenant in promise and then withholds delivering on it .. ???

that not the lord Jesus i know and love .

my lord set me free from the power of sin so i don't have to serve it any more
he delivers me now
he heals now
he is faithful and true to his word
he loves his children and cares for them
he takes the worst things that can happen and works them together for good .. he does not DO the worsts things to me .

... and so you continue to misrepresent the views of the people you disagree with.

My God can and does save from sin.
My God does not leave his children as slaves
My God can and does heal, he just does it based on his own will rather than jumping whenever I snap my fingers.

How about you quit with the relentless unbacked assertions and actually demonstrate that it is still God's will to heal every time now, given you still have nothing more than assumptions to explain Paul's thorn, Timothy's frequent infirmities, or the things we can see in our world around us today (including, for example, my mother who died of cancer and your wife who is crippled)? You can stand on a promise all you want but if God didn't make the promise it's all worthless.

 

[Alithis]

It's rather comical that you should say I'm not hearing your words, given you previously complained I was dissecting your posts.

This may come as a shock but I have actually read the New Testament in its entirety. I don't see your conclusions can be supported by the New Testament, or the Old Testament, or what I see with my own eyes. Jesus told us to take up our crosses and follow him. What makes you think that we can suffer as he suffered, take up our crosses, but do so while enjoying perfect health? Doesn't that seem absurd to you?

Exactly..you dissect them to draw them out of context. Thus not hearing what is said.

 

[Alithis]

... and so you continue to misrepresent the views of the people you disagree with.

My God can and does save from sin.
My God does not leave his children as slaves
My God can and does heal, he just does it based on his own will rather than jumping whenever I snap my fingers.

How about you quit with the relentless unbacked assertions and actually demonstrate that it is still God's will to heal every time now, given you still have nothing more than assumptions to explain Paul's thorn, Timothy's frequent infirmities, or the things we can see in our world around us today (including, for example, my mother who died of cancer and your wife who is crippled)? You can stand on a promise all you want but if God didn't make the promise it's all worthless.

?can you support with scripture where it is NOT Gods will to heal all Christians?. Being that disciples are those who have entered into the new perfect covenant through the shed blood of Christ.
Show that verse where it states your claim that it is Gods will to be unfaithful to his own covenant ?
In contrast i give you the entirety of the new testament about the new covenant .which include the command to us to go and heal the sick. Its not making god jump when we snap our fingers ,its us Obeying him .

You make an assumtion re pauls thorn ..nothing says it was a sickness. You make an assumption with timothy..nothing says he was or was not later healed. Practice what you preach

 

[Rens]

?can you support with scripture where it is NOT Gods will to heal all Christians?. Being that disciples are those who have entered into the new perfect covenant through the shed blood of Christ.
Show that verse where it states your claim that it is Gods will to be unfaithful to his own covenant ?
In contrast i give you the entirety of the new testament about the new covenant .which include the command to us to go and heal the sick. Its not making god jump when we snap our fingers ,its us Obeying him .

You make an assumtion re pauls thorn ..nothing says it was a sickness. You make an assumption with timothy..nothing says he was or was not later healed. Practice what you preach

If Paul's thorn was a sickness (weird sickness, a cold? stomping him with fists) okay, then it would be clear, but also contradict other texts and you need at least 2 texts, 2 witnesses. Timothy, even if he was sick and didn't get healed, so what? Nowhere does it say God wanted him to be sick.

 

[Josiah]

when it says" by his stripes you were healed" ,,it is referring to every single person who has entered into the new covenant of his blood -bar none .

This refers to SPIRITUAL healing of our sins.... it is an affirmation of the Gospel that (sadly) you have abandoned. It does not refer to physical healing (HINT: if it did, no Christian would ever be physically sick and while you may try to deny it, Christians DO get physically sick - and most Christians physically die from such).




.

 

[Josiah]

?can you support with scripture where it is NOT Gods will to heal all Christians?.

It is His PRIMARY will that sickness, sin, wrong, evil, death NOT exist at all.
It is His SECONDARY will that such be allowed. If such were not the case, they would not exist.

But this has been explained to you over and over and over - including in this thread - but you are extremely proficient at evading and ignoring things posted to you.





.

 

[tango]

Exactly..you dissect them to draw them out of context. Thus not hearing what is said.

I dissect them to make my replies easier to match to the original posts. Perhaps you could demonstrate an example where I "dissect to draw out of context"?

 

[tango]

?can you support with scripture where it is NOT Gods will to heal all Christians?. Being that disciples are those who have entered into the new perfect covenant through the shed blood of Christ.
Show that verse where it states your claim that it is Gods will to be unfaithful to his own covenant ?
In contrast i give you the entirety of the new testament about the new covenant .which include the command to us to go and heal the sick. Its not making god jump when we snap our fingers ,its us Obeying him .

You make an assumtion re pauls thorn ..nothing says it was a sickness. You make an assumption with timothy..nothing says he was or was not later healed. Practice what you preach

Firstly, you're still assuming that the new covenant includes perfect health. You keep stating it without backing your statement, and expecting someone to argue from the perspective of your unbacked point is pointless. It works kinda-sorta-like this: "Hey, assume I'm right, now tell me again how I'm wrong?"

You're also playing fast and loose with logical reasoning (again) with your comment about the "entirety of the new testament" (sic). The New Testament includes inconvenient verses like Stephen being stoned (and presumably suffering along the way), John exiled to Patmos, Paul boasting in his infirmities, Timothy suffering "frequent infirmities" and the like. If the command to go and heal the sick was universal maybe Paul just didn't get the memo because he clearly didn't go and heal poor Timothy. If healing was guaranteed why did Paul boast in his infirmities? Why didn't he just claim his freedom from them all and restore the perfect health that Christ allegedly purchased for him at great cost? Perhaps he just didn't get that memo.

I'm not assuming anything regarding Paul's thorn. Paul himself wrote that he would boast in his infirmities. I wonder why he wrote that, if he had no infirmities. He also wrote that he would take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses (2Co 12:10). I wonder why he did that, if Christ bought him freedom from those things.

Whether or not Timothy was healed later isn't really the point, if "heal the sick" was a universal command someone obviously dropped the ball in suggesting something as secular as taking a little wine for his infirmities. Of course one might argue that Timothy was fully healed when he died and received his resurrected body, which is - er - the point some of us have been making all along.