God Does NOT Heal All - CHRISTIAN Discussion

[Lamb]

I think that w/o doing the gospel that preaching is ineffectual

They aren't "doing" the gospel. They're giving them the Savior by God's Word through teaching and baptism.

 

[Cassia]

They aren't "doing" the gospel. They're giving them the Savior by God's Word through teaching and baptism.

as in do as they say and not what they do?

 

[Rens]

Jesus told the Disciples to go and PREACH the Gospel, teaching and baptizing. He did not tell them go and do the Gospel. Huge difference.

and raising the dead and healing the sick. Well I agree, Peter didn't do much. They just got healed in his shadow.
I once saw a blind man at the train station and was too chicken to ask if I could pray for him. I thought: it would be really handy now if people just got healed in my shadow.

 

[Alithis]

I did not say God's Word is not true.

goof grief , no one said you did . it was a question .

"what do you want us to say .. that gods word is not true ?"

put another way , is his word true or not .. you say it is ? good .so gods will is to heal and he commands Us to do it . so if it is not done whose fault is that .. - not Gods .

 

[Alithis]

Jesus told the Disciples to go and PREACH the Gospel, teaching and baptizing. He did not tell them go and do the Gospel. Huge difference.

nope .. he told them ,.. all in the same sentence ,Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give....
see ?no one does it to get it! it is done because we have ALREADY received it when we are baptized in the holy Ghost . and we know what happens to those who are given who then hide it in the ground .. there is a day of reckoning and the lord will take even that which you have and give it unto another so that they have more .

and preaching the gospel is something you DO .. it doesn't automatically happen .you have to OBEY god and DO It . so you go and DO it .. because you love him.. he said if you love me you keep my commands .. we do what he tells us to do .

if we refuse to. we are disobedient children ..and the spirit of this world works in the children of disobedience .

change your minds and obey the lord Jesus .

 

[Alithis]

and raising the dead and healing the sick. Well I agree, Peter didn't do much. They just got healed in his shadow.
I once saw a blind man at the train station and was too chicken to ask if I could pray for him. I thought: it would be really handy now if people just got healed in my shadow.

lol sometimes i suffer from wheel chair blindness ... (you'll know what i mean )

 

[Lamb]

nope .. he told them ,.. all in the same sentence ,Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give....
see ?no one does it to get it! it is done because we have ALREADY received it when we are baptized in the holy Ghost . and we know what happens to those who are given who then hide it in the ground .. there is a day of reckoning and the lord will take even that which you have and give it unto another so that they have more .

and preaching the gospel is something you DO .. it doesn't automatically happen .you have to OBEY god and DO It . so you go and DO it .. because you love him.. he said if you love me you keep my commands .. we do what he tells us to do .

if we refuse to. we are disobedient children ..and the spirit of this world works in the children of disobedience .

change your minds and obey the lord Jesus .

Yes, preaching the Gospel is what is done...but doing the Gospel is what Jesus has done. Huge difference. Learn it.

Jesus says we should have faith of a child. Have you ever seen a child suffer from cancer and has strong faith, yet dies? Have you? I have. God didn't heal that child but chose instead to take him to be with Him. That was God's plan. His plan wasn't to heal.

 

[Alithis]

when we say .. we saw this or saw that .. and we then build a belief system on what we saw or did not experience .. we do not walk in faith but by sight .we are building on sinking sand when we do that .not the rock .
we do not cancel the word of god because we do not see its effectual outworking . we find out why we did not see it and get it corrected
we conform to the word of God and not to this carnal world . be not conformed to the world ... meaning we ARE to conform the the word of god who is living and powerful to transform.
we wont be transformed if we cling to the carnal reasoning of this world . as the scripture says , we must be renewing our minds , changing our thinking to agree with God. it is a constant state of repentance (to repent .. to change our thinking toward god )
it is not a one off one time act but a life .
and so we know from the word of god it is his will to heal , by his stripes we were healed . if a disciple of the lord Jesus is not healed under the new covenant which they have entered int with god after he has told US to heal the sick, that is not god saying no , that is us failing .
do not think that i do not wrestle with this issue every day with my wife being crippled . but if i was to take on the unbelieving sentiments presented in threads like this i would cast off all faith in order to believe the carnal reasoned thinking presented by some here . and i will not do that .
Gods word is true and he is faithful to it .. amen

 

[Lamb]

Is that all you have then is that one verse?

 

[Alithis]

it is more then enough ,but no i have the new covenant in Christ ... being a child of god healing is my right , the children bread . the spirit of god quicken my mortal body unto life .. i wil not be moved by what i see or hear or feel , but by what the word of God states .
i have the entire new covenant and every single word of promise in it and the promises of god are YES and so be it (amen) not maybe and maybe not .. let your yes be yes and your no be no for anything other then that is sin , god cannot be charged with sin. if it is in his word - it is so said smith wiggleworth . belief is not intermingled with doubt as bitter and sweet waters are not to come from the same fountain . we do not speak life and then mingle it with death .

i have the new covenant and every word of life in it ... you know it as "the new testament" ' it is far more then one verse .

 

[Rens]

never mind

 

[tango]

Yes that one. Sigh then take James 5. But that's for elders. Then go to the elders. Gifts of healing are not only for the 12 disciples or elders.

Sure, that works. It does still raise the question of why Paul didn't think of that when he told Timothy to take a little wine though.

It also leaves open the question of just what it means by "the prayer of faith will save the sick" - some versions refer to "heal the sick", some say "make the sick person well", some say "save the sick" and the second half of Jam 5:15 refers to sins being forgiven. So even then this word sozo appears to be used in a context that could refer to physical healing but could also refer to spiritual healing.

Paul asks in 1Co 12:30, among other things, "Do all have gifts of healing?" and in the context it makes it pretty clear that the answer is no. Not all are apostles, not all are prophets, not all are teachers, not all are healers, not all speak in tongues.

Ultimately it's still arguing against a strawman, because as I've said many times I believe that God can and does heal. I just don't believe that God always heals. Those who seek to argue the case that God always heals have to have an answer for every single situation in which God does not heal, or their case collapses in the face of even one counterexample.

The argument "all cows are black" is proven false by a single cow that isn't black. You can line up as many black cows as you want and it means nothing, other than that black cows exist. One single cow that isn't black proves "all cows are black" to be false, unless it can be explained away.

 

[tango]

when we say .. we saw this or saw that .. and we then build a belief system on what we saw or did not experience .. we do not walk in faith but by sight .we are building on sinking sand when we do that .not the rock .
we do not cancel the word of god because we do not see its effectual outworking . we find out why we did not see it and get it corrected
we conform to the word of God and not to this carnal world . be not conformed to the world ... meaning we ARE to conform the the word of god who is living and powerful to transform.
we wont be transformed if we cling to the carnal reasoning of this world . as the scripture says , we must be renewing our minds , changing our thinking to agree with God. it is a constant state of repentance (to repent .. to change our thinking toward god )
it is not a one off one time act but a life .
and so we know from the word of god it is his will to heal , by his stripes we were healed . if a disciple of the lord Jesus is not healed under the new covenant which they have entered int with god after he has told US to heal the sick, that is not god saying no , that is us failing .
do not think that i do not wrestle with this issue every day with my wife being crippled . but if i was to take on the unbelieving sentiments presented in threads like this i would cast off all faith in order to believe the carnal reasoned thinking presented by some here . and i will not do that .
Gods word is true and he is faithful to it .. amen

You're just stating a load of stuff that isn't relevant to the discussion - it just looks like a load of spiritual sounding fluff attempting to mask the lack of reasoning behind an original stance. And once again you simply parrot Is 53:5 like a mantra, and once again you ignore other interpretations of it with nothing to back the process.

Renewing our minds is nothing to do with showing blind faith in a promise God may or may not even have made. If God makes a promise we can stand on it; if God doesn't make a promise we can stand on what we think all we want but that's when we're on sinking sand. If we try and fashion God in our own image we really are in trouble.

Nobody is saying that God is not faithful to his word, that's just another strawman that's easier to knock down. It does no good reasoning if all you're going to do is relentless repeat one verse as if it were the beginning and the end of the matter. If, as you assert, God told US to heal the sick and the only potential issue is a lack of faith on our part, how exactly does that work? If we pray for one sick person and they are healed that should strengthen our faith, no? So the next time we pray for someone we will have more faith, not less faith. If God can intervene and make someone well again it makes little difference whether their issue was bacterial or physical - if God can make something like septicemia disappear overnight there's no reason why he can't grow a new arm or similar. So if what you say is true everyone who ever sees someone prayed for and healed should have a level of faith that steadily rises, until they could put the medical industry out of business by simply walking through hospitals and seeing everybody healed and walking out. Why doesn't that happen? Why does the faith that sees one person healed suddenly fail when praying for another?

Why is it such a problem to believe that God saves us, God heals some but not all, and when we receive our resurrected bodies we will be in a world with no more death, no more sorrow, no more pain, no more crying. Whether or not your wife is healed in this world is trivial compared to the joy that awaits her in the new heaven and the new earth. There's no reason why you can't accept that it's not God's will to heal her (or maybe not God's will to heal her yet) and still continue to pray for other people to be healed. My mother wasn't healed of the cancer that slowly destroyed first her strength and then her will to fight it, but for all I mourned when her life on this earth ended I can rejoice that she now sees her Lord face to face and has a new body that will never again taste sickness or death. Although cancer finally took her life I still pray for healing for people with cancer - just as God healing one person doesn't mean he will heal everybody so God not healing one person doesn't mean he won't heal anybody.

 

[Alithis]

Why is it such a problem to believe that God saves us, God heals some but not all,*.?
..because the same blood shed to save is from the same body broken to heal.

You use the same faith .
this lack of discernment of his body is why so many amoung you are sick and some die early.

 

[Rens]

Oh I read: why God saves us, but not all.
God doesn't save all. It's not His will. He wants people to perish. But 1 Timothy says He wants all saved and He gave His life for the whole world. It's there very clear. No I saw people not saved. You interpret it wrong. He doesn't want to save everyone.
Why is this reasoning weird and all of a sudden not when it's about healing?

 

[psalms 91]

Not all will be saved just as not all will be healed but we know Gods will in this

 

[Lamb]

Why is it such a problem to believe that God saves us, God heals some but not all, and when we receive our resurrected bodies we will be in a world with no more death, no more sorrow, no more pain, no more crying. Whether or not your wife is healed in this world is trivial compared to the joy that awaits her in the new heaven and the new earth. There's no reason why you can't accept that it's not God's will to heal her (or maybe not God's will to heal her yet) and still continue to pray for other people to be healed. My mother wasn't healed of the cancer that slowly destroyed first her strength and then her will to fight it, but for all I mourned when her life on this earth ended I can rejoice that she now sees her Lord face to face and has a new body that will never again taste sickness or death. Although cancer finally took her life I still pray for healing for people with cancer - just as God healing one person doesn't mean he will heal everybody so God not healing one person doesn't mean he won't heal anybody.

Brilliantly said!

Our healing is in our new bodies after our resurrection and all believers have that assurance without doubt.

 

[Alithis]

Not all will be saved just as not all will be healed but we know Gods will in this

yeah ,,, i get her point though .
some are applying one rule to salavation and another to healing
but the same body of Christ was broken and his blood shed

so when we believe for salvation to ALL who believe and repent ...
why not healing for ALL who believe and repent .? - its the same body the same blood the same covenant

why the double standard presented ? answer - unbelief

iv been asked in an earlier post .. maybe you cant accept that it is not gods will to heal my wife (something like that)
but though they don't see it yet , but may now , that is like asking- maybe its not gods will to save my wife -. ... /????? say wot ??

she as i have entered into a covenant with him through the shed blood of JESUS , the lamb of god , a holy and eternal covenant. they are implying it is not gods will to keep his part in the covenant .
that would not be faithful of him and he is not ever to be charged with any such thing .
he has already provided healing .just as he has already provided salvation . salvation, we grasp by faith and then live as ones redeemed after the holy spirit within us walking in love and thus in the perfect law of life . we abide in faith to obtain that which is already provided in chrsit ..if we forsake faith we forsake salvation
so it is with healing .. it is already provided in Christ-we grasp it by faith ..it is ours . Our heavenly father has provided it already . the enemy tries to hold on to the territory-but its ours not his . and we need to go get it . that may mean a FIGHT . like when Joshua lead the people into the PROMISES of the land .. god had already provided that land .it was theirs by divine right . but the enemy occupied and wasn't to willing to give it over . so it is with the promises f god for us ( these things are written for us to learn that ) we must go fight for them .. NOT cast off faith and give up at the first opposition .. .. example : oh you didn't get healed .."oh well" says unbelief,"maybe the enemy is too strong , or maybe its not gods will for you to obtain that thing HE PROMISED YOU" ... and so they perish in the desert of unbelief .. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven suffers violence ( the promised land was occupied by violent people ) AND the violent take it BY FORCE ..Joshua went in and FOUGHT to OBTAIN that which was promised them ... he didn't give up just because it didn't work one time .
we dont say oh well god didn't heal .. we go back to god and say lord ..what did we get wrong -and then they went at it again.. and conquered -

exciting is it not ? god does not renege on his covenant for this one ,in the blood of the lord Jesus , is a more perfect and everlasting

 

[psalms 91]

yeah ,,, i get her point though .
some are applying one rule to salavation and another to healing
but the same body of Christ was broken and his blood shed

so when we believe for salvation to ALL who believe and repent ...
why not healing for ALL who believe and repent .? - its the same body the same blood the same covenant

why the double standard presented ? answer - unbelief

iv been asked in an earlier post .. maybe you cant accept that it is not gods will to heal my wife (something like that)
but though they don't see it yet , but may now , that is like asking- maybe its not gods will to save my wife -. ... /????? say wot ??

she as i have entered into a covenant with him through the shed blood of JESUS , the lamb of god , a holy and eternal covenant. they are implying it is not gods will to keep his part in the covenant .
that would not be faithful of him and he is not ever to be charged with any such thing .
he has already provided healing .just as he has already provided salvation . salvation, we grasp by faith and then live as ones redeemed after the holy spirit within us walking in love and thus in the perfect law of life . we abide in faith to obtain that which is already provided in chrsit ..if we forsake faith we forsake salvation
so it is with healing .. it is already provided in Christ-we grasp it by faith ..it is ours . Our heavenly father has provided it already . the enemy tries to hold on to the territory-but its ours not his . and we need to go get it . that may mean a FIGHT . like when Joshua lead the people into the PROMISES of the land .. god had already provided that land .it was theirs by divine right . but the enemy occupied and wasn't to willing to give it over . so it is with the promises f god for us ( these things are written for us to learn that ) we must go fight for them .. NOT cast off faith and give up at the first opposition .. .. example : oh you didn't get healed .."oh well" says unbelief,"maybe the enemy is too strong , or maybe its not gods will for you to obtain that thing HE PROMISED YOU" ... and so they perish in the desert of unbelief .. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven suffers violence ( the promised land was occupied by violent people ) AND the violent take it BY FORCE ..Joshua went in and FOUGHT to OBTAIN that which was promised them ... he didn't give up just because it didn't work one time .
we dont say oh well god didn't heal .. we go back to god and say lord ..what did we get wrong -and then they went at it again.. and conquered -

exciting is it not ? god does not renege on his covenant for this one ,in the blood of the lord Jesus , is a more perfect and everlasting

Also healing is included in salvation

 

[Lamb]

Also healing is included in salvation

We are the New Adams when God gives us faith and we believe in the Savior and forgiveness of sins won at the cross for us. That is healing but yet we are still here in these sinful bodies that get sick and die. When Jesus returns, we shall be resurrected and get NEW bodies which will not get sick or die. That is the ultimate healing that God has promised us.